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10 person raids?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by EvilPeppard, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. EvilPeppard

    EvilPeppard New Cupcake

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    Hello, all. First post here. :)

    I did a quick search, but did not find what I was looking for. While keeping an eye on WildStar, I see several references to 20 and 40 person raids, but what about 10 person raids?

    Has there been any info available there will be 10 person raids, or will the smallest group be 20 person? I don't necessarily mind 20 person runs, but my static group is better suited for the 8-12 person range, like in LOTRO, Rift, SWTOR, and such.

    Thank you in advance for any feedback. :)
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  2. Ayora

    Ayora Cupcake-About-Town

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    10 person raids? I personally don't like that idea. I'd rather it be called an elite dungeon or something to be honest :I but that's just opinion.
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  3. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I believe 20 and 40 are whats planned.
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  4. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    20 and 40 are the planned raids. they're also NOT the same raid - think more of AQ20 vs AQ40. there's also such a thing as Circles - so you could keep your 8-12 people in a small Circle for social aspect while joining a larger raiding guild for the raiding aspect.
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  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    20 and 40 man raids have been confirmed.

    Although recently (1-2 days ago) some people who have gone to Rezzed said they asked for 10 man raids, and they got some answer that they can be in-game.....although this isn't confirmed. So it's more a case of if you dare to believe those (see Black Wolfs WS Content Break-down thread for these speculations).
  6. EvilPeppard

    EvilPeppard New Cupcake

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    Thank you for all the prompt responses so far.
  7. Neurotic Cucpake

    Neurotic Cucpake Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have to say, these oversized raids are a real turn-off for me.

    In all the years I've been playing MMOs -- over a decade now -- I've never particularly had a fun time in one. It's usually just a huge mess of mostly random people (guildmates or not; you're not going to have a close friendship with 39 other people), several of whom I actively dislike but have to tolerate in order to finish the job. What's more, such massively sized ones just allow more people to be incompetent and lazy, leeching off the efforts of everyone else.

    And I don't even want to try to think of how you're supposed to coordinate 40 telegraphs.

    What's more, I've never seen what's so "heroic" or "epic" about such raids. Real epics are about a small group (if not just one person) taking on insurmountable odds. St. George vs. the Dragon. Beowulf vs. the Grendel. Those are epic encounters. Forty over-geared guys picking on one monster? Not so much.

    Regardless, it would be nice if there were comparable content available for the many smaller, tightly-knit guilds out there. 10-man raids are popular not because they're "easier" -- which they're not do to everyone having to put their best foot forward -- but because you have more control over the quality and availability of the group.
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  8. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    You can discuss ''What's real epic'' all day long, but neither what you say nor what others say will be correct. Since it depends on each person, others may find it epic to be in large groups succeeding in killing a boss.

    Anyway,
    They do got Solo dungeon's, isn't that a good thing for you, if i read this? (see orange part)
  9. Neurotic Cucpake

    Neurotic Cucpake Cupcake-About-Town

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    Sure. If you ignore everything else I wrote.
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  10. FhaTe

    FhaTe New Cupcake

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    I'd personally enjoy the smaller raid parties rather than larger one to be a choice honestly. I think this would be great to have because sometimes it's rather difficult to keep everyone on task when you have more than 20+ people. I mean sometimes trying to set up your guild just to parttake in Guild Wars or even group PvP is a pain.

    I mean I know raids are all about large groups rushing in to kill any and everything, but I really hope that they make sure to keep it balanced. I know they shall have the raids on a random cycle (I love that, keeps people from farming the SAME raid over and over again, until they memorize everything.) I'm just hoping to see some real great stuff at the end of the road when completed. I've played in a few raids (mainly played Cabal's raids) in which 1-2 hours of mass genocide just to end up with a piece of junk gear -.- ... I really hope they have an algorithm that does allow every member to gain at least 2 pieces of gear that make your journey feel like it was worth it, and hopefully it won't be "account locked" rendering it even further useless.
  11. Riuuki

    Riuuki Cupcake

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    If you dislike big raids you have the chance to do dungeons or solo dungeons. I personally will be doing a lot of solo dungeons but will also try to do the raids, sure 70% of the time you'll probably be screaming "GET OUT OF THE FIRE(tm)" but that's where the funniest moments happen. All my laughter in games are caused by people being stupid. Do you really think playing to win 24/7 is fun?
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  12. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    What did i ignore...you tell me, cause you just said that you rather see a good ''small group fight'' or even 1 person fight then having 40 man raids (your own words). So i said it's a good thing they got solo dungeons, for i expect that ''epic 1 person feeling'' can be achieved inside those (if made correctly).

    Hence that would be a place for you to get that epic feeling within the game without having to do 10 man raids (for if they aren't in the game).

    I was sincere about how it can be a good thing for you, since not everyone likes solo dungeons. But you may :up:
  13. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    10-man raids are alot easier to manage and have alot easier logistics. I personally like 25 man raiding more, but due to the increased logistics 25-man guilds tend to raid more than 10-man ones do. Nowadays I have three, max four days to raid so it will be a challenge to be a part of a big raiding guild.
    Regardless of the raid tier, I have been challenged individually in both 10 man raiding and 25 man raiding but I have to say that in 25-man raids, the atmosphere is just alot better.

    In group of only 10-players there might be one maybe two who are extroverts and like to talk and yell after those awesome progression kills, in 25-man there can be over double. This generally makes the ventrilo alot more talkative during farm runs, and the atmosphere alot more epic during progression ones. It just is so much cooler to hear the nerd screams after 25-man kill, than the awkward "Wheee" with 3-festival balloons rising to the ceiling after 10-man one.
  14. Woke

    Woke Cupcake

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    Ten Man Groups shouldn't even be called a Raid. I am fine with Ten Man Groups having content but from my experience they are nothing like Raids and should be treated as Group Content and not Raid Content.

    Twenty and Forty are good Raid numbers.
  15. Haversham

    Haversham Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think I've read that they plan for 10 man content to be grouped with dungeon content, similar to blackrock spire back in vanilla WoW. But, that could all change in the next few months probably. I hope not, but it would probably work.
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  16. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm personally skeptical about how 40s will work out I mean having actually done them, they do look epics but it's hard to get really close to everyone and the logistics are insane. There is a reason they stopped making 40 man stuff I honestly don't think this will work as well as they are intending especially with the content break between 20s and 40s means you're going to have to split your raid then group up for 'hard mode' sounds like a recipe for guild drama.

    20-25s are my favourite size personally small enough for everyone to be friends big enough to 'feel epic'. More logistically feasible and there is still an emphasis on on personal responsibility but if one person screws up it isn't an instant wipe.

    10s is getting a lot of flak in here but that's not really fair. There are blue posts admitting that if you take the same content and scale it from 25 to 10 or vice versa 10s is personally more difficult (so it's hardly lol2EZ).
    However it doesn't 'feel' right to me that said the logistics issues are minimal which is a plus I guess.
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  17. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    I despise 10-man raiding. I personally believe it was responsible for the homogenization of Warcraft's classes and the complete elimination of niche roles within the raids. with 20 and 40 you'll have room for the niche roles because you've got so many spots in a raid to fill. As somebody who plays those roles exclusively when they are available I hope we never see 10-man raiding in this game. I don't want all DPS to be basically the same nor do I want every healer to be overly similar. Distinct utility roles, unique classes, raid composition strategy are all things that are lost when you have to build for 10-man raiding equality with larger raids.


    Another major issue I have is that it always snowballs. First it's just 10-man raids and they don't mind if they are different raids. Then they demand that get access to all the raids because it's not fair that they don't get to see the same content as the larger group since that larger group can simply split itself into smaller groups to see the 10-man content. After that happens you'll have people demanding the same difficulty level, reward level, and lockouts for both the 10 and larger raid. I don't want this to happen here. Every game on the market basically caters to those people and I'm only interested in this one because it basically gives those MMO locusts the finger.
  18. Neurotic Cucpake

    Neurotic Cucpake Cupcake-About-Town

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    No, I didn't say a thing about wanting one-man raids. I said 40-man raids aren't "epic" in relation to most stories from myths and legends; real epics -- in which I'm using the word correctly, not in the video game sense -- involved only one person or a small group of people going up against insurmountable odds. Just like the examples I cited. Not a giant gang of people picking on one monster. With only a very, very few notable exceptions. Instead, when there are a large number of "players" involved, epic stories tend to have them facing equal or greater numbers. Such as the massive Lord of the Rings battles.

    What I did say, however, is that I hope there is content available for smaller, more intimate guilds that offers comparable rewards to the giant 40-man ones. I doubt there will be, because that's just hardcoded into developers for some strange, mystifying reason, but it would be really nice if it were.

    Ironically, the primary excuse developers usually give for why they give such better loot for giant raids is because, without that, most people wouldn't do them. Yet players keep claiming that they find them more fun and exciting and don't care about the loot (unless they learn that the loot won't be better; then they lose their heads). So... one side has to be lying. (Hint: It isn't the developers.)
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  19. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    See the thing about that is when you actually design content from the ground up with X number of players in mind you can tune the mechanics in such a way that with more players you can actually make the strategy more complex with more players so you can offer greater rewards (I'm talking about 10s to 20s here 40s is another beast altogether).
    When you design content so that it has scale between the two you get into the situation where 20s provide no tangible benefit in that they're not really harder the numbers are just bigger and the logistics issues are more of a problem (which is why unifying the lock out and and tuning 10s and 20s so they drop equitable gear was a terrible move for a whole host of reasons). Which is the reason 25s teams got decimated in WoW Blizz designed themselves into a hole in Cata and they just kept trying to dig up in pandaland.

    That said like I said in my first post I'm sceptical as to whole 20s -> 40s and 40s are the hard mode raids paradigme I think the player base has simply moved too far beyond this to smaller more intimate (even the 1%, all the top guilds are 10s now just because it's the path of least resistance) groups on the whole
  20. Dasphunk

    Dasphunk Cupcake

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    It's not a strange, or mystifying reason they like 40man raids and plan on implementing them, it's because that is what they love to play, and realized that many people love it as well, on top of that; challenging raid, quest, dungeon content. I am one of those people. Just because you don't like it, you go off and call the developers blind, crazy, or dumb?

    They know what they are creating, they know there are people who want the same thing(I believe it is inching close to a million people signing up for beta), so obviously they are doing something right, no other current gen game has that to offer. If you want 10 man, try the many other games that focus on small group raiding. Why does Wildstar have to have 10 man raiding, when none of the other MMO games offer 40man raiding. If you don't like it, don't play it, and please stop complaining about one of the main components of the game.
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