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10 person raids?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by EvilPeppard, Jun 24, 2013.

  1. Nexus Elites

    Nexus Elites Cupcake

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    I guess it depends on what seems like a challenge and what is an obvious unreachable goal. Does WildStar's "1%" mean that they only expect 1% of all their players to even step foot inside the Datascape (the 40-man raid), or they expect that only 1% will kill the last boss?

    I found an old article on MMO-Champion that was published 4 months after Siege of Orgrimmar was released (the last raid of the current expansion), that stated only 0.23% of all players had killed Garrosh Hellscream on heroic difficulty. To me, the definition of the "1-percenters" are the guilds like vodka, Paragon and Method, that spend 7 days a week raiding, for 8-12 hours per session. This might be a slight exaggeration of course, but guilds like that devote a lot of time to be where they're at. Which still brings me back to my question: What is WildStar's definition of being a 1-percenter? Personally, if I had to rate myself on how "hardcore" I was, I'd say I was probably in the top 20% or so. I haven't fully decided if I want to pursue 40-mans or not yet. It will be hard for me to pursue something that I don't necessarily care for, just to ensure myself that I'm at least trying to make it there. I will probably wait for some more information about their raid setups and go from there.
  2. EvilPeppard

    EvilPeppard New Cupcake

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    Looks like we are getting all sorts of new feedback now, though, which is what I wanted. Now that the NDA is lifted, I was hoping we could have a more open and up to date discussion on raiding, based on facts that can now be talked about.

    I appreciate all the continued feedback.
  3. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Contrary to everyone else saying "you are valid... but I disagree" I don't think you are valid. Since when is requiring social mechanics for success in an mmo "stupid"? If anything its one of the things that is missing from second/third gen mmos. Much like the cries of "just deliver the mail to me and give me infinite bag slots!" you are arguing for them to remove part of what makes the genre work.
  4. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, what makes his statements valid are that they're his opinions. They're true from his standpoint (and apparently many others since this issue keeps coming up) and though I don't agree with them, he's entitled to them. I can't rightfully say his opinion means nothing when trying to push my own opinion.

    I agree with you though, in regards to what's missing from many MMOs these days. There comes a point where convenience, or ease of access, ruins what that game should (again in my opinion) be.
  5. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Just because they are his opinion does not make them valid. Its no different than declaring that gravity shouldn't exist because it makes us fall and hurt ourselves. They are ignorant to the rest of the good that such things do. Hooray for loss aversion and people thinking that their opinion is just as good as everyone else.
  6. Miatog

    Miatog Cupcake-About-Town

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    In that case I do agree with you. I never liked having the same raid tuned for different sizes for much the same reasons you posted. I think WoW is taking a step in the right direction with the new set up for difficulties, but I like the Wildstar method better.


    Minimal is better, minimal is fine and flexable based on the raid comp and the encounter. When you said NO ONE in all caps that was my issue.


    Not even remotely the case. I just think expecting 40 people to PERFECTLY (as the bit I had quoted made me feel) is not 'social mechanics' it's stupid and unreasonable. Especially with the way combat looks in Wildstar. One small hicup from one guy at the wrong time and it's a wipe, because one guy died, for what ever reason.
  7. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    So its purely a matter of difficulty? Is that leveled at the idea that you will wipe a lot or that you will have to separate players because of it? Why should you be allowed to do such content if you can't execute? Do you believe that zergs are better and somehow "less lazy" than tuning it for difficulty?
  8. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, in that case, their opinion is still valid. Gravity does make us fall and hurt ourselves. What happens next is that you tell them that gravity should exist, state while you feel differently, and if you're lucky convince them that it should, indeed, exist.

    I, just don't feel completely invalidating someone's opinion, because yours is different, is the right way to carry on a conversation.
  9. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Right, cause personal values versus collective values means we should entertain ludicrous ideas in the face of evidence.
  10. Miatog

    Miatog Cupcake-About-Town

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    I said nothing of the sort. I think that expecting 39 people to suffer because 1 person had a slight error that could have easily been caused by factors outside of his control is wrong. Such as lag or a computer hic up.

    This is going to be the last I respond to this line of conversation because it's based on me misunderstanding a line that was given. More importantly though I'm starting to feel like I'm just a convenient target for you to vent at over issues you have and I'm not too welcome to be that target for you.
  11. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Its not suffering, its another chance to repeat and memorize the pattern. People are pattern recognition machines. In fact that is the very reason why most pvpers claim that pve is "easier".

    You aren't a target, I am merely tired of this argument. You have so many detractors of 40 mans trying in different ways to either eliminate them, or get them moved into obscurity. If its not hard enough its "lol zerg", if its hard and promotes personal responsibility then "its making everyone suffer for 1 person", if it requires 40 people at all its "no ones got time for that" and "but leadership!". Its never ending and virtually every single argument boils down to "I want it and thing x is standing in my way, so eliminate thing x!" no matter how important that thing is. Its annoying and the sheer amount of ignorance around why thing x exists is insane.
    Bnol and Roadblock like this.
  12. Outlaw

    Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    How is me saying I can see where he (and the many other people that, obviously, if you read these and many other forums/blogs, feel the same) is coming from entertaining ludicrous ideas? Personal opinions differ. That's just something that happens in the world sometimes. No one should say that someone else's opinion doesn't matter because theirs is different...but that's just how I, personally, feel so maybe that's just another ludicrous idea?

    Anyway, whether or not I'm accepting, or you're not accepting of other people's opinions, isn't the topic of this thread. I'll agree to disagree with you and leave it at that.

    I feel the exact same about it not being suffering, and the arguments to do away with 40 man raids. Most arguments FOR 40 man raids also boil down to the same thing though. Only difference, that I've experienced for myself, is that having similar 10 man raids hurts the 40-man raid community far more than a lot of people realize/are willing to admit.

    Too many arguments of people who think they should be allowed to do all the content by virtue of having bought the game instead of putting the work in to achieve something. Instead of doing away with 40 man raids because you (for whatever reason) can't do them, why not just do what you can do and not worry about what you can't? Instead, if someone can't do something, that content needs to be made easier or removed from the game. I don't get it.
  13. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Because its based on how the opinion was formed. The first response by someone who doesn't like/want something is to remove it instead of understanding why its there, or why it is the way it is. An uneducated opinion is not valid.

    There is a lot of perception that it is because of how those in service based industries pay attention to those with such opinions. It isn't because their opinion on that thing is correct, its because their job as a service is to provide experiences that match their expectations. All too often it becomes doing what they want (ie removing friction) because that is what is time/monetary/difficulty sensitive. Its a case of correlation does not equal causation.

    False. Because its up to the creator to determine what should/shouldn't be there. They demanding changes have the burden of proof that something is bad. This is a large part of why forums are so poor in general for these sorts of discussions anyway. They argue from a position of the mob, but the mob (either side) is pretty meaningless since forums are not representative of the player base.

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