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40 mans: Not all they're cracked up to be...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Destian, Nov 21, 2013.

  1. lacrimstein

    lacrimstein Cupcake

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    So what? I don't like Arena PvP. Where do I sign up to get a $1/mo off my subscription? A lot of people don't like PvE at all, and just rush for the PvP section. An MMO is a multifaceted game, there are many different features for everyone's taste. I can just as easily say that I'm subsidizing the, say, 5% of players that are hardcore crafters. Are we going to give discounts to every single person that doesn't like a certain aspect of the game? Or sell the game piece-by-piece, which is actually what a lot of F2P titles do? I'll take a complete package for a flat subscription fee over "buy this, buy that" flag being waved in my face every 5 minutes.

    Again: why do you think you're entitled to get gear that is designed for the content that you don't want to do? There will be an item progression in the single player elder game, in PvP, and in raiding. Choose one, or two, or all of them, but don't complain that you aren't given an item from the path you chose not to do.
    Bnol, Ianpact, Wendo and 1 other person like this.
  2. Yazra

    Yazra Cupcake

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    yes sa

    Yes sadly we had 8 tanks, not all of them tanked every fight but for fights like Garr and major domo you needed them.

    And no i dont raid soley for gear. I raid for fun too I was only arguing a point with you because i like to see other peoples reasoning. Not trying to make you mad or anything if thats whats happening.

    Also as much as i do agree that raids are fun just to do them they do get stale after a while and some content is gated by gear levels, having minimum health levels, minimum dps checks and hp checks. So sometimes you DO need the gear.

    The gloves thing being heavy, back when those were out the only class that could use them was plate wearers, and to this day. the only plate wearers back then were.... Warriors, and paladins.. Warriors are on both factions, paladins only on the alliance.

    Paladins were not capable of healing back then thus making those stats utterly useless. So unless you had a warrior who wanted them they went to waste . Back then Death Knights didn't exsist.
  3. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    I do not think that is really what happened with WoW. What did happen is a lot of long time guilds collapsed, specially small ones, under the pressure of trying to get enough folks to 40 man, but the community re-arranged itself and most people did the content, at least those that wanted to.

    I did it, I thought it was great at first, and later I learned to hate it. I will never do it again. I hated having to carry a bunch of bad players because we needed bodies and then have to compete for loot with them like they were equals. With 40 people you ended up playing a lot of hours with some individuals that you really didn't like. The waiting for some key player/class to log on while 39 people waited on them. I could go on :)

    I agree with you in that WoW realized they needed to do something different and I am not sure why Wildstar has decided to follow along what I consider a failed system, but the difference is that Wildstar does not force you to do the content. It does not bother me that they are going to do 40 man because I simply will not be doing that content. I have no strong need to do everything in the game, I just want to do the stuff that I enjoy and as long as my progression is not hampered in doing those things then who am I to say that folks that like 40 man raids shouldn't have their content as well?
  4. Gamerz

    Gamerz Cupcake

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    Yeah he doesn't agree with us must be a troll.

    There is not much more to add here. You think they are good I think they are bad.

    Enough said
  5. C1d0s

    C1d0s Cupcake

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    Can we let this thread die already? 40-Mans are not something that're going away, regardless of the believed impact on the game. It's very clear the devs are putting all their eggs in that basket via how they promote it.

    Whether it works or not is beside the point. You're not going to change it here, now. If anything, all I see down the road - and this is assuming something tragic happens and 40-man raids end up causing cancer or a mass exodus - are changes to add lower levels of raiding, like what happened with WoW. But it won't be at launch.

    Considering WoW is pretty much the first MMO to ever have critical, long-standing success, it's not really fair to compare every single facet of every other game to WoW. What works / did not work there, will not always be the case.

    There will eventually be something better than WoW, don't worry. It may not be Wildstar, but it will come sooner or later.
  6. Chrilin

    Chrilin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Agreed.
  7. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Then that was a failure on the part of your leadership. There was no reason to have 8 tanks for Garr and Domo unless you really had no mages/locks. Hell, how you did Domo without mages period means you must have outgeared it as there was nowhere near enough interrupts for heals.

    The position you took indicates otherwise.

    Minimum gear levels are never as high as the player base demands they be. Or do I need to direct you to the undergeared project?

    I was speaking specifically in reference to Wildstar. You could liken it to the token drops that can only be turned in by 3 classes in WoW.

    What? In vanilla the only thing paladins were good for was healing. Ret was woefully undertuned for pve for a couple reasons, the biggest one being how burst focused they were.
    Kidney likes this.
  8. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    The issue was that raiding was the only end-game in WoW. There was nothing else to do (other than try to grind GM/HWL, which was even more of a time sink). WoW made raiding easier and more accessible each expansion instead of creating progression content for the 99%. This alienated the 1%, but still didn't provide the 99% with content that they wanted.
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  9. Summerlack

    Summerlack New Cupcake

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    40-man raids. Pfft. back in my day, we had 80-man raids in EverQuest and we liked it!

    Except for the lag. And the particle effects. And that one cleric who is always late, and that other one who DCs constantly, and...oh, he's DC again? Okay, afk. Okay, back. The DC guy is back, but we have ten afks and the late cleric we absolutely need hasn't shown up yet? Still? No word? Okay, I'll watch TV whle we wait, I guess. No, guys, wait, don't queue for a BG, that cleric will log in any minute and we'll kill the boss...no, look, if you're on your alt we're just going to replace you, okay? We need everyone here when...we ARE looking for a replacement, chill. It takes time and everyone who is geared and knows the fight is busy. We just need to wait for this one guy to log in and we're...Hey! He's here! Okay, let's...DC healer is DC again. He just texted the RL to say his connection is too crappy tonight, we're going to have to find a replacement. No, guys, don't leave, don't...

    /headdesk
    /headdesk
    /headdesk
  10. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Yep, this is what happens when your leadership sucks. Sounds like a you problem and not a game one.
  11. Summerlack

    Summerlack New Cupcake

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    Spoken like a person who's never done big raids! It's not a leadership issue, mate, it's real-world logistics. It's just a reality of large raids.
  12. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Nope, merely someone who has had different experiences. Every time I have been in a guild that suffered similar problems to what you describe (mainly in Cata and Rift, with 25-20 mans) it was due to poor leadership. Rift I actually stuck around for awhile just because I enjoyed raiding with some of the people there. Any decent guild will always keep a solid bench so you are not reliant on "one person" showing up, of any class or role, much less keep people in prime spots who have common dc issues.

    Perhaps you have never been in a decent guild so you do not know the difference?
  13. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    <Mod Face> Good to see everyone carrying themselves like adults here. Thread cleaned up. </Mod Face>
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  14. Galium

    Galium Cupcake

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    Are you a huge WoW fan or being sarcastic? I hope the latter.
  15. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Has nothing to do with being a fan, as per the criteria he set he is correct. Otherwise I would have corrected him myself. Some have been around longer (though you could argue how successful) but no other mmo has reached anywhere near as critical success, in fact the large majority have been barely a blip on the greater gaming markets radar.
  16. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    leadership can make a whole crapton of difference. suddenly people are afraid to act like an idiot unless they are told they can for the night. loot decisions are made final and with no objections fairly. ect, ect.
  17. Dexsoul

    Dexsoul New Cupcake

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    Do you realize that for your guild to have a solid bench, means some other guild that needs a core member won't have it, right? Solid leadership most of the times means doing what's good for your guild and at the same time what's bad for the community, hence the poaching and stealing. Hell I know, being in a semi hardcore progression guild during vanilla/TBC/WOTLK was evidence enough. Discussions about decent/bad guilds are dumb. A bigger raid requires a bigger bench, that's the indisputable truth.

    What you don''t seem to even consider is the fact that they could easily reduce it by simply decreasing the raid size a bit without compromising "epic" or "immersion" feelings. But I guess the 40m nostalgia publicity carries too much of a bigger weight for it to matter.
  18. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

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    Wait... my Guild being good is what made your Guild bad?!
    [​IMG]
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  19. Dexsoul

    Dexsoul New Cupcake

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    What the hell has good or bad to do with what I was talking about? You either have enough ppl to do something or you don't.
  20. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't understand how having more then 40 members is a bad thing. How is having 4 guilds with 60 members worse for the community then 6 guilds with 40 members? In every mmo ive ever played, if you want to raid, you can find a guild.

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