1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

A VERY Comprehensive Review for WildStar from a 1%er [WARNING! This is Long!]

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Crucifer, May 9, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Agathia

    Agathia Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    18
    What you are describing only reminds me of not so great guilds. In the BC era, I got in one of those, sure we were the first, but the raid leader was not very lovely. Ultimately, the guild disbanded and I got into a new one which was freaking nice! We were in the top 10 of French guilds and almost everyone was cool. I don't remember any really bad behavior or anything. Bad apples would have been kicked really quickly.

    You can have a nice guild with cool people to manage it and still enjoy the hard content the game has to offer.

    If raiding with 25 people is hard in WoW today it's because people have the choice to do the same thing with only 10 people for almost (or are they equal? I don't know, haven't played the last expansion) the same loots. Why would you bother gathering 25 people if you can do the same with 10? That's why I also hope that Carbine sets only one mode for raids. One mode, one number of people, that's all. The raid needs to be perfectly tuned for this.

    There's one other thing I really want in Wildstar, the raids should not be nerfed, or at least, not before a LONG time after the introduction of the said raid in the game. In Vanilla, we were in MC when AQ was released (the gates were opened). We still enjoy doing MC and going in BWL even if we knew a new content was released. We were "working" on going there, people would have gathered enough gear sooner or later and we would have enjoyed the "new" content, even if it has been released one or two months ago (maybe even more!).

    In BC, I had the chance to kill Kael'Thas when he was still needed for the attunement and when he wasn't nerfed yet. That fight was one of the most epic of the game. When the attunement wasn't required anymore, people would not even TRY the fight, while it was one of the most satisfying and fun fight of the game. And it was also way easier so they really didn't have any reason to skip it... I really hope Carbine don't plan on nerfing content 2 months after released, it would make raids a bit dull, which is a shame! I hope we won't see nerf before at least 9 months or a year. Or it won't be nerfed at all ever, that would be really cool too :p
  2. Maize

    Maize New Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Nice post, read it through and agreed with almost all of it.

    I liked the idea of having no pvp till end game, it's very true, its never balanced, I myself have been both ends of a twink character in pvp, getting destroyed because im the wrong class and under geared, or being the perfect chracter with the best gear and fully enchanted, giving the ability to one shot someone, making their life a missery.

    Content really does need to be difficult, I agree with your points on raid gear, I agree with your points on 40 man raids, I really hope it works too. I just want hard, truely hard small party dungeons, requireing a tank, healer and some dps, that requires your group to work together to overcome. I like the feeling of being undergeared and trying hard. By do a dungeon that has a time limit to extra rewards, dungeons during WoW's vanilla and then hard modes during burning crusade were awesome. Only during the initial few days of swtor and WoW cataclysm release did I get that feeling back.

    I agree very much with no instant teleports, As long as the world is not continually seperated by load screens, I have many fond memories of traveling to scarlet monestary at low levels, Flying in burning crusades across shattered islands.

    Infact that is one point you should have added, the world needs to be continuous, Zones, I felt are always better and immersive when I can simply walk/ride from one end of the world to the next without hitting a loadscreen. Even with flying mounts, traveling took quite a while, when walking/ground riding the World felt immesnly huge and epic.

    I disagree however on Dev's always listening to players.

    WoW was a game that I found listened intently to its players,the vast majority being casual people who only scream for wanting more, so your extremely true words about the few players/guilds who are admired for what they have devolves into pleasing the masses by letting them have it too with no effort atall. Listening is important, but a Developer needs to know when to say no or to ignore demands, theres no fun in handing out stuff for free, they wont want to stay and play once they have it all.

    As you mentioned, the player needs to learn to work hard, to take time and eventually they could be that player they admire so much. This will hopefully result in an improving player base, people spending more time in game, giving a larger, happier playerbase, which hopefully result in a continuing player growth for the game.

    When it comes to flying mounts, they are both something I love and loath, I love soaring on a dragon mount over oceans and mountains, but on the other hand they make the world feel small and take away from pvp. I'll leave that argument for other threads.

    Your idea on dailies is a hard one, your idea of events is just exchanging one kind of daily for another, don't get me wrong, I agree, I hate dailies, I prefer gaining rep by doing dungeons or one of quests, not repeating my life over and over every day like im stuck in the twilight zone. I like the events idea, especially if its like Guild wars 2, i just don't want to repeat the events at end game I was doing as I leveled, end game needs to be different, it's the most important thing for me, it makes and breaks the game.

    Thanks for taking the time to write your thread.
  3. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Michigan, US
    I suppose I can toss my opinion on 40 man raiding in here as someone who was a top 100 guild raider for quite some time and experienced it first hand.

    Organizing a top end 40 man squad was challenging back in the early days of Warcraft (I speak in warcraft terms because lets face it, most folks are familiar with it even if Warcraft didn't invent the concept). I can't say what the magic number of perfect people for a raiding squad would be. Adding more people certainly makes things feel a bit more grandiose, but it definitely increases the frustration if you don't have people that are solid with management. Most guilds that never went anywhere back in the day did not do the management thing well in some way or another, which was why they had trouble progressing. The 1% of the population doesn't. Once you get 3 standard deviations beyond the mean, you're frankly in a different league from the average.

    The way that a 1% guild functions, they would seek to recruit those folks out of the population that can meet that criteria and they'll find a way to make it happen. Drama happens, real life happens, people don't log on occasionally, but this doesn't fly with the 1%, they'll call you on it and you'll be out of the guild. We had mandatory posting if you were to miss a raid, and the guild officers expected notice or a text or whatever if you planned to miss. Raiding was srs bizness as they say and that's how you have to run these things if you're that serious about progression. Herding cats uphill through a snowstorm seems about right. I'm glad that I wasn't in charge, the people that were probably on their way to stress heart attacks.

    My question is whether or not the raid model that they have planned will sustain many of these types of 40 man squads if they plan on having raid competitions and things. I'll admit, I have no idea how they plan to populate servers, but if these raids are for the 1% of the population, then to get one guild of 40 1 percenters you're going to need a server size of 4,000. This is bare minimum, assuming that some of those 1% people may not get along, or do things that make it so that others can't stand them and boot them out. Supporting 5 top guilds like this will take a server pop of 20,000 at a bare minimum if my math checks out. Can the hardware support something like this? Can the economy? I remember that the top guilds on my server (along with our guild) pretty much scoured all the meaningful gathering nodes and consumables out of the world when we weren't raiding. It a tough act to balance and a lot of games don't get it quite right.

    Now I have no idea if they expect the 40 mans to be something that the average raider can goof around in. But if they're making these for the cream of the crop, it's going to have to require some serious thought.

    Beyond that, I've "raided" in 40 man, 25 man, 20 man, 16 man, 10 man sizes in various situations. From a squad tightness perspective, I think that somewhere between 16-25 is the sweet spot where it's most likely that everyone will get along and feel comfortable with each other. 40 feels a bit more clique-ish and military in organization, and less than 16 is barely a raid. 10 man raiding was just a squad doing a dungeon in my opinion. I've also had the most fun raiding when Warcraft was 25 man during the BC/Wrath era for what it's worth.

    All that I can say is that while 40 man content sounds cool, and it very well could be, I think it's going to have to be one of those things that is carefully balanced from all angles or it could really end up screwing with things.

    Sorry for the book, just felt like typing. :)
    Crucifer likes this.
  4. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If we are looking at Van wow for comparison, my guild at that time was not top 100, not part of the 1%, and I'd dare say they were in the mid-range of the "raider" community. We made it to Naxx and AQ, but not very far in before the end of the expansion, and we weren't top on our server, more like mid level again.
    So from what I saw, there were a lot of guilds that had "average" raiders being successful in those 40 mans, just not to the extent that the top ranked ones had, and that speaks a lot to the server competition, because we had it on every level of guild...they all had that competitive nature between each other from the bottom guilds all the way to server first.
    I think it would be interesting to know what the average server pop was back during vanilla.
    Kataryna likes this.
  5. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    43
    No mid-average guild made it into Naxx. Sorry to let you know the attunement by itself kept most people out of Naxx in Vanilla.

    And the avg server population back in Vanilla was 2000-2300. With some servers having SEVERELY low populations of under a few hundred.
  6. Nizr

    Nizr New Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Just finished reading that wall of text... And I got to say: FINALLY, someone that thinks the exact same way as I do. I'm am not one of those 1% but, I totally agree with what you are writing Crucifer. I miss the days when I actually had to work for my charachters progression and gear. Nowadays everything gets handed to me, there's no feeling of Epicness and completetion.
    And everything you write about mounts and teleportation... Couldn't agree more.

    I want to be able to tell the rest of the group that they need to come and help me out if there is to be any dungeon run tonight, because there is a band of enemies between me and my group.
    I want to travel though zones, I don't want to be teleported.
    I want to work for my gear, I want to see hardcore 1% run past me in truly epic gear and sit back in ave, thinking that one day, I might have that gear to, if I work hard enough!

    Good post, I hope wildstar team picks up some of it!
  7. PlayerOne

    PlayerOne Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Is it just me who can see this guy standing around, "undergeared", tabbed out and whining on the forums in a year or so's time?

    Exodus_31 likes this.
  8. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What would you call my guild then, since we were not top ranked, and were not even in the top 5 on our server, and it took us the entire expansion to reach Naxx. I know what the other top guilds on my server called us....

    ;)
    Kataryna likes this.
  9. Crucifer

    Crucifer Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    109
    Trophy Points:
    43
    If you can tell me all the attunement steps to naxx and include the cost and then explain to me how you got 40 plus subs players to do the attunement ill believe you...tho I think your mistaking wotlk naxx for vanilla.
  10. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Antarctica
    OMG it cost an arm and a leg. It was like arcane crystals and enchanting mats and gold.... I think it went down depending on your faction with the Argent Dawn. It wasn't the attunement that kept everybody out though. It was the fact that most guilds could barely do half of AQ40.
  11. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    564
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Nova scotia, Canada
    We just chain rain scholo and strat and farmed the mats as a guild.
    Kataryna likes this.
  12. Agathia

    Agathia Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    18
    You are wrong Crucifer!

    I was also in a "not so good guild" in Vanilla and still, I went to naxx while we only managed to kill 4 boss of AQ40 once. We had a lot of problem in MC because people were like "okay, we have done this thousands of times" and still, we were wiping a lot (in MC! while we were cleaning BWL without any problem...). We weren't in the top 5 of the server and still we managed to go in Naxx (where I think we might have kill one or two boss). We had a lot of not very good players and still managed to do it. Going into Naxx wasn't really difficult but I don't remember the attunement quest... Though now that you speak of it, I remember entering Naxx for the first time wasn't easy... What did we have to do? It's far now! 6 years at least!
    Kataryna likes this.
  13. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    280
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    Antarctica
    I had mining on my Paladin. I farmed almost and entire Thunderfury worth of Arcane Crystals for one of my best friend's and the vast majority of the crystals for the attunement. I had a figure 8 pattern in Burning Steppe that I could still run in this day blindfolded.


    *My guild wasn't the best. We were 2nd or 3rd on our server, but we managed like 2 wings in Naxx before the x-pack.
  14. Mierelle

    Mierelle Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2013
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Sweden
    Honored: | Revered: | Exalted:
    60 g | 30 g | Free
    2 Nexus Crystals | 1 Nexus Crystal |
    1 Righteous Orb |

    Considering how many times I ran Strat and Scholo for the dungeon set and paladin charger quests, 45 min Baron, it was harder to get the MC attunment done (remember short-cutting BRD to get it on my rogue).
    Kataryna likes this.
  15. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    755
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Ya you don't have to believe me, but it was for sure Van Naxx not Wrath, that place was a joke. I dont remember that far back to say what the entire attunement involved, I do remember farming a ton of argent dawn rep though.
    Our guild could have gotten further, but we started later than other guilds and didnt have the hardcore mindset that they did. I didnt even join a guild until halfway through MC's lifecycle before BWL came out.
  16. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    564
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Nova scotia, Canada
    Yeah pretty much.
    Lots of scourgestones and plagued whelp scales.
  17. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I think the tone of this discussion is why I slowly became a solo casual player over the years. I'm simply not going to argue over a video game as a grown man.
    Rumze and Eliat_kuni like this.
  18. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Mars
    I know what you mean.

    However, I like to raid and PvP so much that I put up with the nincompoops and find a half-decent crew to do what I love with. Like you said, there's no reason to get all uptight or showy in a game. I love competition but more than anything I just want to enjoy the game.
    Kataryna likes this.
  19. Lyze

    Lyze New Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 19, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    So you want wild star to be vanilla wow? Sure don't make the game easy I also remember seeing epic raiders in t3 gear in vanilla wow but i also remember saying to myself I'll never get that. I missed so much content in vanilla wow because i wasn't a hardcore raider. Its disappointing missing content of a game your paying for because you can't join a raiding guild. Plus hardcore players don't need their epeen stroked anymore then it is.
  20. cirk

    cirk Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Germany
    Well this was quite a read. First I would like to say, how impressed I am, that the discussion went "this" civilized and constructive. If the Wildstar community can keep this up count me in. I have to agree with most of the points Crucifer brought up. Sadly I wouldn't get my hopes up for some of them.

    Next I would like to address the ongoing hardcore vs. casual discussion. Can we please stop using these terms. They were never right to begin with but a stupid oversimplification. And by now they have so much ideological baggage that it is impossible to use them without offending someone. Some people take their hobbies way more serious than others. But there is a lot of gray in between.

    Time has nothing to do with it. If you are serious about something you plan accordingly. Player A has 2 hours toll dinner is served so he logs on and does some quests. He has fun doing it, his character progresses. Player B hears about a new expansion. So he sits down does his research and prepares. When the new content hits, he takes 4 weeks of work and starts playing every day. He grinds to the next level cap as fast as possible. Skipping as much content as he can. Next he starts gearing up begins to clear the endgame content with a group of like minded people. When the grind is over he stops. He maybe had some fun but more importantly he has the sense of achievement. From now on Player B logs in once per week and clears the farm-content to gear up for the next raid.

    I have been raiding like this for the last 8 years and I have considerably less time played than some of my friends who spend their time collecting pets. Which is of course totally fine if they enjoy it. My point being: Different people play games differently and it is not about available time but about commitment to the goals a player wants to reach by playing. If you want to have fun play accordingly. If you want to compete for server-firsts play accordingly. A game that wants to appeal do different styles of play needs content and mechanics that fit the different mindsets. Everything for everyone for whatever work they wish to put into it is not going to work out.

    I better stop rambling now. Have a nice day.
    Sebastien Verret likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page