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Angry Joe's thoughts on Wildstar...

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Chaddicus22, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Cananh

    Cananh Cupcake

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    I've tried and given up on more than a few MMOs in less than 4-5 hours. I reason that if the developer can't create a good starter experience, knowing how important that is, then I've no reason to expect the rest of the game is any good. The same is probably true for many others and I would be surprised if developers don't collect statistics which show this.
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  2. ImpactHound

    ImpactHound Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would be ruder if I didn't intend to visit Cedar Point this summer. ;)
  3. Azzurri

    Azzurri Podcaster

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    Michigan can have the northern half of Ohio, by all means.
  4. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    That's how you do it in 2-3 hours, you can do it in 4-5 whilst reading and having a bit of a nose but most likely not on your first go round.
  5. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Blizzard said back during Wotlk that 30% of their players didn't make it past lvl 10.
  6. ImpactHound

    ImpactHound Cupcake-About-Town

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    If you had done that in the 1800s there wouldn't be the rivalry that there is. :p
  7. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    The problem is what people find fun is different and it is challenging to balance the difficulty curve of the early levels for all classes and players. For me, leveling is boring, since the vast majority of it is easy for me. I level to get to endgame content, so my ideal leveling experience is a short one. But, that is in complete opposition to players who love leveling, and in opposition to keeping all players playing longer and increasing their investment in the game.

    Plenty of players like an easier experience, and what is easy for one player is different than another. Some players want/need rails, while others want to explore. It is tricky to balance all of these things in the first 20 levels, especially when you are introducing new players to telegraphs, breakout gameplay, and paths, and it can be even more overwhelming for new MMORPG players.
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  8. Toat

    Toat New Cupcake

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    Angry Joe is NOT an MMO player. His oppinion means very very little.
  9. Ark

    Ark Cupcake-About-Town

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    You could not be more wrong. His opinion is as important as anyone elses, and actually more important for everyone who is trying this mmo out as one of their first. I agree with everyone to some extent. I have leveled 14 level 90 characters in wow, and raid on one of them full time. So i enjoy a fast leveling experience, which for me, wow offers. But obviously, i do enjoy leveling, or i would not have done it so many times. For me, it is not ALL about endgame, but yes, i get the biggest thrill from my raiding.

    But honestly, his opinion is as valid as anyone elses. I dont have to be a 5star chef to know that i didnt enjoy a meal.
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  10. THIS AURINS ON FIRE!!!!!!

    THIS AURINS ON FIRE!!!!!! Cupcake-About-Town

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    but every other streamer I've seen has given the game respect and said what the don't like after understanding and going through the content, he really didn't ,even most of his own fans admitted this on that the comment page.
  11. Ark

    Ark Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah i notice you didnt adress any of the very valid points that i raised. Obviously he didnt give the game "11 out of 10, Game of the Year already, greatest mmo of all time" and some fans are having real trouble taking that. But you didnt address the fact that you feel his opinion is less valid than anyone elses?
  12. Vuxxy

    Vuxxy Cupcake

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    Watching those duels was /facepalm. I know he's a entertainer etc, but I thought he was playing with a track pad LOL.
  13. Noa

    Noa Cupcake

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    I found his impressions, to be at least some what insightful. In the end, isn't that what we're supposed to look for in these early reviews? Insight into something we as players who didn't get into beta, weren't allowed to experience? Though it should be noted that everyone has a different opinion and they're entitled to it. Their opinion might not sit well with some people but they should still be allowed to express it.

    I'm going to have to ask here, isn't the point of trying to sell your game, movie, show, etc, to step out with your best foot forward? I've played too many MMO's that have had boring starting zones, forgettable quests and walls of inane text thrown at me. Fetch X number of this, go talk to this guy who's like within earshot of me for me, bring this item to that same guy whom I can clearly see by cannot move to because apparently my legs don't work. And so on. The only game I can remember that had me chugging along, happily with the quests, was SWTOR, but that was due in major part to the NPC's 'saying' the lines and allowing my character to 'react' to them vocally, through a choice system.

    I'll admit though, that usually the starting zone IE the tutorial zone is mostly about getting you situated with how the mechanics and junk work, but still do they have to make them so boring? I understand that it's next to impossible to get away from the 'core' mechanics/quests of an MMO, but I'm tired of people telling me to just 'tough it out' and wait for the good stuff. Like this was some crappy lightning final fantasy game. I shouldn't have to wait to enjoy the good stuff! They should have the good stuff there, waiting for me with a smile on it's face. At least justify the sixty plus bucks and subscription fee of fifteen bucks I had to pay to try and get in on this 'promise' of fun.

    End all, I sort of agree with him, I'm not a avid follower, but his opinion, especially since it's coming from a non-MMO player, should be valued. Valued, but not put upon a pedestal like it was gospel.
  14. Kryptonian

    Kryptonian New Cupcake

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    I can sum up how I feel with the following:

    "To each their own."


    I never and I repeat, NEVER form my decisions about games or anything for that matter based on someone else's opinion, unless I know them personally and/or highly respect their opinion.

    As for Angry Joe, I watched him once on Twitch TV and I could feel my brain-cells dying off the longer I watched. Granted the man was $#!%-faced at the time, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. However, while Angry Joe has determined from his limited time spent playing WildStar that it is not his cup of tea, the same can be said of my limited time spent watching Angry Joe...his show is not my cup of tea.

    So, as I said:

    "To each their own."

    Play the game yourself and if you enjoy it, that's all that matters! :)
  15. t209

    t209 Cupcake

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    To be fair, the beginning of the stories was kinda poor.
    - Sadie Brightland's death (no characterisation other than the fact that she was a Justice or even any effects on the stories)
    Undead Lady Brightland anyone?
    - Dominion Tutorial a bit bland but it would be suprising for new player who saw Dominion as cartoonishly evil before being fleshed out at Ellevar.
  16. Bloodclott

    Bloodclott Cupcake

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    That is exactly the issue though, these big youtubers like AngryJoe, Totalbiscuit, Jesse Cox, Dodger, and a few others do get treated like deities annoyingly enough and you can see in the comment section that some people are taking his opinion and running with it despite that there is different viewpoints and opinions they can draw from.

    The reason why some people believe that his opinion is invalid is that he has barely any MMO experience in the first place to draw evidence from to form his arguments on Wildstar's flaws. I have not once ever really considered the Tutorial Zones to be a MMO's hooking point, in fact to me what hooked me to this game was the combat and graphics and to be honest I am rather surprised about that First Impressions for the MMO genre even exist.

    Take another Youtuber, TotalBiscuit for example that also kind of gave a first impression on this game. He got access to one of the early builds a long while ago and was allowed to show it to his fans and watchers. But here's the thing, he never even called it a first impression and even flat out said that first impressions and reviews from his viewpoint are not really that easy to produce for this genre.

    Other youtubers have reviewed the game's leveling experience or try to review all the games assets separately to try to circumvent that and honestly I find those youtubers comparably to the bigger ones more helpful if you want too see if the game is your cup a tea.
  17. Bazeleel

    Bazeleel Cupcake-About-Town

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    I love him for his reviews but he is not a mmo'er. So his impressions on the game was just for entertainment for me. He's passion at about games and that's all I can ask of him :)
  18. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    1. Regarding starting zone, many people present the "hook the fish first" argument, but we should note that this notion is only a recent development in mmos, or for that matter elsewhere in our lives. The old saying is "the quality will speak for itself", now everything is about early advertising.

    First let's talk realistically: Early advertising is quite applicable to the massive number of f2p mmorpgs on the market, indeed if you play for a bit and don't get intrigued right away, and if you don't have to pay a dime anyways, you stop and move on to the next one. For a subscription based game however, the investment is already in, you've already paid, so if you're not terribly excited for level 5 well it's not like it's a torture to play, you just keep going, and suddenly at level 10 everything starts brightening up. 1 month later, anyone who's not buying the game yet won't be hearing from their friends who only made it to level 10, they'll be hearing from their friends doing the end game. If they decide to drop their money on the game at that time, they'll be placing their hope in the end game or higher level content rather than the focus on early experience that we keep hearing about.

    2. Let's talk deeper. In an age of f2p mmorpgs (and one button everything in life, and one liner messages, etc), we're now setting the "move-on point" at 8.5/10 instead of a traditional 6/10, hence we're not giving each game that much thought (thinking about its potential or spend the time to research on its later game-play), we just take things at face value and assume a flat line across the full game progression. Consequently, f2p mmos have a rather linear experience where what you get at the beginning is similar to what you get at the end (indeed, flat line), there's no ramp up and won't hold major surprises, because the f2p players won't be patient enough to sit it through, they have many options and they can just follow the fireworks. Since development effort is limited, the heavy emphasis on starting zones and early game-play means that end game is compromised and often completely not there.

    3. Even deeper, I think this trend of impatience and over-simplification, is problematic. Now I question myself time after time whether if I can justify that claim or if I'm just being old and stubborn, fixated on traditional values without proper adaptation. While traditional values must be an influential factor, I've come to the conclusion that it's by far not the reason of my concern --- my concern stems from the fact that no longer are people interested in the development and the up-down cycle of the mental experience, we're missing out the fact that there's no high when there's no low. And I'm not saying "it's a problem" because "I don't like it personally", I'm saying that I have sufficient reason to believe that it is correlated and contributing to some wide spread dissatisfaction in people.

    Think about the unease, the agitation, the frustration, the general lack of patience and scattering of interest/intensity in a subject that can be seen frequently in our world and in the gaming community, they're all related and almost self-driven. We keep moaning about how every game is the same and how it's the boring stuff all over again, it sounds like the whole gaming community is in a depression, spiralling down in a vicious cycle. Think about depression: wherever you turn it looks meaningless and boring, you tell yourself to try something, lift a finger and then just give up, thinking "it's just going to be the same boring thing. See, my finger is still my finger, it's not a magic wand, so everything must still be the same meaningless bunch". We hope to find something new but we assume that nothing is new before even trying, and every time we do this to ourselves we feel like we've been wronged once again by others. It's very contradictory. We hope to find something fun but for the fear of not finding it we're not putting in as much intensity, completely ignoring that intensity is a necessary condition for heightened pleasure, then we lament that there's nothing fun enough to put our intensity into. It's another contradiction.

    It's what happens when a whole system nears equilibrium, factors that are supposed to drive the system in one direction now swings back and forth to keep the system around the mean value with a fluctuating variation. This is all fine, there's absolutely no "right" or "wrong" in "is", and a system simply IS. But what if we as subjective entities don't like the variation? What if the variation is so small that we get bored? Then we better do something about it. That's all I'm saying here, at one point no amount of arguing and no amount of money spent on a game will make people happy, they'd need to perform that first step for other factors to even have a CHANCE of brightening up their mood, and in a game, I think putting yourself in a receptive mode past the initial levels is the least to ask. It's no one else's fun other than your own at stake, if you don't enjoy a game it is only your own loss and no one else, so why not put in the proper mentality and give it a fair shot.

    Sometimes we think it's absurd to "look for hardship purposely", but we do it repeatedly all the time. Games are obstacles and rules created to give you a hard time so that you receive greater fun upon completion. Spice is a toxin, along with many other food that we get a thrill from. No pain no gain applies everywhere, if you want to get inspired read a book not twitter messages, if you want to have intense fun in a game put your focus into it not skim through it fully prepared to flee at first sign of trouble.

    4. REVIEW: Don't do review based on shallow understanding of things, if others can see it with their own eyes within 5 minutes, it doesn't need a review. Review is for long-long-long stuff that kinda goes everywhere and hard for people to get a quick grasp of, like this post.
  19. kongpong

    kongpong Cupcake

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    Angry Joe rips the hell out of TESO i loved every second of it.
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  20. Cogburn

    Cogburn Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think Joe did a great job at separating his opinion from fact. He did state upfront that he didn't like the cartoony graphics and his fans know he's not a huge MMO fan. However, he also pointed out that WoW fans will love it, which is pretty obvious, and he gave Carbine credit for having not only a host of features, but things that other MMOs may not have (paths, housing, warplots, races that aren't orcs/elves, etc).

    I appreciate his honesty about it. I don't always agree with Joe on his reviews, but he's always good for bringing enough information to light so that I know if I want to try it or not.
    Fishsticks and Agent Drew like this.

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