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Are there any concerns regarding wildstar

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by thrastorm7, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Zerdav

    Zerdav Cupcake-About-Town

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    Still, 40-mans are not universally more epic than smaller ones. Some get more epicness with smaller groups, some solo, although the latter probably just play single player games.
  2. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    I'm a little confused. I'm not sure why your bent out of shape with my response. I actually agreed with you on some parts in my second paragraph. In my first paragraph I was describing what I enjoy, just as you have, so what's the problem.

    And for clarification I raided in EQ in larger raids than 40, so I do have experience with large raids. I never raided 40 or 25 in WoW, only 10.

    As far as your comment of adapting to the game and not the game adapting to it's players, I agree and disagree. As a player I can agree that we need to play the game as is and either like it or move on. Form a business standpoint that could be a bad way for Carbine to go.
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  3. Ayr

    Ayr Cupcake-About-Town

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    For some people the visual grandeur of seeing 40 decked out pro-players take on some insane boss truly fits the definition of epic. Personally I think that's pretty epic.

    In recent years though, epic has meant soloing instances, sometimes tediously long 30 minute fights, but the feeling of doing something no one else had done, (or gives a damn about) has felt kinda epic too.

    Open world PvP where you've been out on a killing spree in the enemy territory, and survived zergs, won some groups v you etc. That also can feel really epic. I've had days where I was literally shaking from those admittedly rare runs where all the chips just keep falling in your favour.
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  4. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah I can agree with that. A victory is usually more "epic" when there are more people around. It's like watching a football (soccer for you, lol) game at home on TV with a few friends, or watching it at a sports bar. When your team wins, the celebration is infectious.

    In my case, I guess I'm willing to make that trade-off of celebrating lower key victories with knowing I won't have to raid with a handful of people I really dislike. I already have to deal with people I don't necessarily like in the real world; I shouldn't have to do it in a game that I play for fun in my down time.

    I guess we'll never agree on how content should be distributed, but that's okay. From my point of view, I'm an end-game raider and I don't want to be excluded from seeing content. I still believe there's a way we can all get what we want, though.

    For example, if Carbine really wants to push competitive raiding, leaderboards, etc, why not release the 40-mans first? Give the bigger guilds a month to work on them, complete them, get the world firsts and the gear, and then release re-tuned (smaller, not easier) versions a month later for the smaller guilds to work on?

    Again, my big thing is content. I want to experience it and see it. I want it to kick my ass, and then turn around and kick its ass. I don't want to feel excluded from anything, as if some social barrier is keeping me from doing what I enjoy. I like healthy competition, but if that means I have to do it in a bracket that runs instances later than the big guilds, so be it.

    Do you think that would be incentive enough to give the 40-man raiders a healthy enough recruitment pool?
  5. MNovasun

    MNovasun New Cupcake

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    I hope they dont go the route WoW did with raiding for Naxx and beyond on. I like a challenge but I dont want it to feel like work. The times I enjoyed most raiding were in Molten Core and Black Wing Lair. They required team work and knowing your role but they also allowed for some humor and fun. Once naxx came out several of the encounters were so complex it was one mistake by anyone and it was a wipe. This killed a lot of the social/humor element because everyone was so focused on their role, they did not want to wipe the raid. It almost felt like a second job and in the end burned out myself and most of my guild.
  6. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really agree with this. I don't think companies should bend over backwards in response to QQ. However, I also think that making your content accessible is a very important key to success.

    One of the biggest points of contention during the "hardcore" vs "casuals" debates near the end of Vanilla WoW, was the amount of development resources that went into creating Naxx-40 and the extremely small percentage of players who ever actually got to see it.
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  7. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    This may be your experience in a guild. This is not the majority experience in guilds - especially now. Even when raids were largely 25 man, guilds had trouble with players who couldn't be relied on for week to week attendance. This often means rosters end up bloated with an excess of players to ensure that if John Doe doesn't show up when he is supposed to, someone is available to replace him. And replacing in guild is preferred to replacing with a PUG because the presence of an "outsider" typically means loot can't be micro-managed with a fine-toothed comb.

    Players in smaller guilds tend to be more reliable (I'm not saying it's impossible in larger guilds), because people tend to be more friendly/family like. Having been a part of 500+ player guilds, being in a smaller guild where discussions don't singularly revolve around things like, "is spell power better than haste," is refreshing. I love theory-crafting, but when its the only thing people talk about because members don't really know one another (Again, I'm not saying it doesn't happen - but it is significantly more challenging.), it sucks the fun right out of the game for me. And for loads of other people.

    I just finished reading a post called, '"I Miss 40-man Raids" or "Vanilla Nostalgia,'" and he discusses why he prefers the 40-man at length. I can understand the massive raiding party seeming more epic in scale. I really do. What I cannot understand is why he considers it enjoyable. Some of the high-lights:

    + Over three hours, a few individuals will need to leave for real-life commitments or other reasons.

    So, we're essentially going to be standing around, twiddling our thumbs like we do in PUGs. I've been in guilds where we had people on substitution duty. You know what these people do? They get up and go to the bathroom. Make pizza. Talk to their wives. What this means is that an entire raid ends up sitting on their hands while we wait to get that person in the raid instance. Its why I downloaded Bejeweled and Peggle as add-ons in Warcraft. Waiting to play is not fun for anyone.

    + You would need to switch out players based on what gear they needed.

    So, we're inviting larger-scale drama. Some guild leaders are amazing at tackling loot drama, and a lot of them really aren't. Loot is one of the chief sources of conflict in MMOs. AND, a lot of players do not like being locked out to particular fights and not getting to be a part of the entire experience. They'd rather go raid in a PUG and have gotten to experience the whole thing. PVE raiders don't want to sit. They want to raid.

    + Coordinating a fight with 40-people in the room, all from different backgrounds, countries, viewpoints, skill-levels, and IQs was a massive undertaking.

    Sounds... work-like. This coming from someone who has been a hard-core raider since BC. Personally, I don't want to be forced to be in a guild with so many different types of people. I don't generally go spewing this information about on forums, but I'm a lesbian. You know what this means? I don't want to be in a guild where I feel I can't say in vent, "I need to go help my girlfriend with something, I'll be right back." There are groups in the world for a reason. We find people with similar beliefs and like personalities so that we feel accepted/respected. I don't need everyone to be exactly like me. But, I don't want to be thrusted into an environment where John Doe feels its necessary to say, "That's so gay," every five minutes. Large guilds means MORE personalities and MORE interpersonal conflict and MORE drama.

    40 man raids do not necessarily mean more challenging CONTENT. 40 mans raids DO mean more challenging GUILD ENVIRONMENTS. It is possible for something to be ridiculously hard without needing to be ridiculously huge. At any rate, its been stated, several posts back, that 40 man raids and 20 man raids will be included. I respect that nostalgic players want the 40 man, and I'm excited for those who miss it. We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
  8. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Much respect Auryn.
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  9. Ayr

    Ayr Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like what you're saying, a lot.

    I come into issue with this part about the homogenisation of groups and the reason for them. You can put all kinds of different people into a group if the ground rules are clear and enforced.

    No bigotry.
    No racism.
    Be polite.
    Play fair.
  10. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Auryn's post reminded me that not every mmo handles LBGT issues well. Hopefully that's not a problem with WS
  11. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I think the leaderboards will get rid of this. Since the hardcore players that want to be the best, will have a number that they can see rise (similar to elo). They don't have to make the content so hard to feel like a job because the added difficulty of doing it perfectly will be there already.
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  12. Mosene

    Mosene Cupcake

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    Mediocre guilds are made out of mediocre players, I cant really take people who play in 500 man guild seriously sorry,if you are a reliable and skilled player you will find a good 40-man guild with ease, although I must admin I have no clue where you guys are pulling these numbers from.I stopped playing WoW a long time ago, but even in vanilla and TBC top guild had around 55 ish players and 30-35 players respectively.My guild had 49 people for months and we did just fine.
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  13. Mosene

    Mosene Cupcake

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    So basically you are giving an oppinion about something you never experienced i.e. 40-man raids.Sound legit.
  14. Mosene

    Mosene Cupcake

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    Basically this, although I have an even simpler approach to it "If you dont like it dont play it."
  15. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    Or, we could say I am giving an opinion about the size of guilds, which I DO have experience with, and guild leaders that have bitten off more than they could chew. The size of a guild is almost always dictated by the size of raids. The larger the guild, the more drama. I don't need to have experience in a 40 man raid to no know that it affects guild size and larger isn't always better. [In to say, "That's what she said," before its every comment hereafter.] Its logic. Just like I know that drinking bleach isn't a good idea - even though I've never experienced it.
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  16. Mosene

    Mosene Cupcake

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    I'm sorry but that is so ignorant that I dont really think there is room for a debate here.I'll leave you with "40-man have been confirmed" and wish you all the best!
  17. Kahlan

    Kahlan Guest

    So are 20 man raids. This has been mentioned several times in this thread.
  18. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    You know with all this raid talk, why don't we have a raid thread?
  19. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Where have you been, finally an ally!!

    wc to the forums m8
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  20. Sonja

    Sonja New Cupcake

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    TEST in eve is over 13k accounts and dreddit corp there is 4k accounts. Very organized group. Also Goonswarm federation has over 9k accounts and largest corp goonwaffe has 4k. 2 of the most organized entities in one of the most hardcore mmo's. But to be fair they pride them self on being bad and accidentally dominating eve,... and eve is a bit diffrent from the standard mmo affair.

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