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Best way to handle loot?

Discussion in 'Guilds, Circles and Warparties General' started by PseudoNimh, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    I've done this before too, and while it can be beneficial, there are times where DPS during a fight is more important such as DPS races. Granted, no idea what type of raid bosses are going to be offered, but it is a consideration. How to best work out loot so the entire raid party benefits! :)
  2. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    You have a very valid point here. Yet, even fully explaining everything doesn't always help with player buy-in to a system. Finding a guild or running a guild raid can be hard if that is the case. :)
  3. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    Ofc that makes sense, it just sounds like loot council basically.
  4. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    Why do you think that loot council would not work with a 40man? Just looking for input on opinions :)
  5. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    Doesn't leadership matter period though? I would think that it was important to have good leadership, regardless of the type of loot system used. Then again, it may depend upon what you're playing for. The people, loot, experience, take down adrenalyne, etc. Hm, now you've made me think beyond loot balance! ;) Which of course is a good thing, but I definitely want to try and stay focused on loot here. :D
  6. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Yup, but we also had DKP for some rolls, so for the first weapon that dropped (as in the example) we just used DKP, and for the chest. But once an item drops again, we would always question DKP. So we used a mix for raiding after some heated discussions on the guild forum :D
  7. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    That's how I normally am! I love playing with my friends, but I don't have 40 friends to raid with.. and building relationships in a game does take time, lol :) So I guess I'm looking for input to help me out with finding a guild, or even perhaps running one that is fair to those who aren't my real life friends. :)
  8. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    I just hope the loot they create helps to prevent to many cross class types of issues. I'm sure everyone remembers the old joke, "Oh hey! A sword, that's a hunter weapon! Oh hey! A staff, that's a hunter weapon! ... Oh hey, a weapon of any kind not shield, that's a hunter weapon!" ;)

    Your example makes sense (talking about the one you took the time out to write an example for). I think that it may have been easier for your group since most of you knew each other though. :) It is a lot easier to handle loot if everyone is concerned and wanting to help everyone else, not just grab loot and run. :) Granted, we can't teach support and care, just gotta hope they all combine into one awesome guild!
  9. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    My point was that a good Loot Council should always maximise the performance of the raid as a whole with their loot distribution and is the most effective method for achieving this. If they are good leaders then they will do that. If they aren't doing that through one or more of corruption/favouritism/incompetence/lack of knowledge about upgrade value etc then they aren't good leaders. In that situation those people shouldn't be on the Loot Council and you should get good people there.

    If you're in some sort of casual guild with a large rotating roster then DKP can be the way to go, but that's not a typical raiding scenario.
  10. Kasabian

    Kasabian Cupcake-About-Town

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    Back in vanilla WoW 40-man raiding, we used DKP to insensitive people showing up and it worked pretty well. Usually if we were learning content or clearing something for the first time we would have a focus group we'd prioritize, but beyond that it would usually be a mixture of DKP/loot council. When 10-mans showed up it was a bit easier to doll out the loot as people pretty much knew what they needed and we were all friends.

    If you didn't get some loot you wanted and threw a hissy fit you usually wouldn't get an invite next raid.
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  11. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    If you have to use DKP as an incentive for people to show up then I say replace those people. Loot shouldn't be the reason people in your guild want to raid with you. They should either be doing it because they like spending time with their guildies or because you're attempting to raid competitively and it's about the race.
  12. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    With a 20 man run, you can just about keep track of everyones roles/performance etc but with 40 man theres double the variables, double the egos etc. You'd be running from a much larger pool as well, so I'd applaud you for pulling off a successful loot council. I'd go with DKP and a pretty strict one at that.
  13. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    DKP should never be the incentive. Same with loot. It's a means to an end not the end itself.

    DKP is merely a means for the raid leader to distribute loot. It's not a quantifiable thing really.
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  14. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    With more people involved it becomes more important to have good Class/Role leads who can closely monitor their players and Loot Councils become more reliant upon individual input than with less players where all LC members can conceivably monitor everyone's performance. Loot Council is probably harder to implement as the numbers involved increase, but good leaders can still pull it off just as effectively.
  15. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    Ah, I see what you're on about there... that can definately make sense, though I love your comment in the post after.
    Maybe that should be the basis I use to either pick a loot system, or even pick a guild, or base a guild on. I love the idea of people who do 40mans/25man/10man/5man because they get a high off of seeing a boss drop, not because "Holy cow PURPZ!". In the end, loot will be passed out, but it shouldn't be the main reason why you're doing the content. (Though the pretties can help ;) )
  16. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    At the end of the day, what Primal is saying is right. Well run Loot Council > Anything else. That means having a strong leadership. 40 manning it just means having more of those strong, unbiased leaders which a lot of guilds won't often have.

    If you do go down the DKP route, not everyone will be happy so make it as fair and as transparent as you can. It's basically a micro-economy that must be managed after every raid. I'd strongly recommend a 10-20% weekly decay too so as to discourage hoarding and ensure that newcomers see loot in a reasonable amount of time.
  17. PseudoNimh

    PseudoNimh Cupcake

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    I've never heard of decay in relation to DKP. I shall go look at this. :)
  18. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    With unique loot a loot system wouldn't matter. It would possibly remove some of the epic feel of downing a boss together though.

    In a 10 man of well known friends, any loot system, where net gain of the team is the important factor can work.

    However, for 20 and up I would not like anything other than EPGP. It has simply been the best system I have seen, and it can be run fairly transparent, so noone can be accused for favoritism and noone can hoard points.

    In comparison, I have seen Loot Council being abused, I have seen dkp having hoarders, etc.

    Posted about it before, so I am going to just link to those posts.

    the difficulty of Wildstar - the EPGP system as I know it
    40 man raid content - on voting others of the island in other loot systems
    40 man raid content - on switching mains with epgp
  19. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    Loot Council, being made up of people, is always biased. No matter how we try we will always be more forgiving of mistakes and see close friends in a better light than those we don't socialize with much. So when you get to a 40 man raid, it gets magnified as there will be even more of people who aren't as familiar.

    For larger groups like that a more mechanical system like DKP, if you have to have a system, seems better. This way everyone knows what to expect as it's clearly written out.
  20. Primalthirst

    Primalthirst Cupcake

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    Well that's the difference between a good Loot Council and a truly excellent one (which is extremely rare at those raid sizes.) Personally I'm very mechanical when voting for loot allocation, I'll very nearly always side with the person for whom it is the biggest upgrade, assuming the person isn't a fresh recruit/about to go on holiday etc.

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