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Clearing up Misconceptions on Open World PvP

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by CRB_Bardic, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    People say they enjoy this, yet I have never seen it work. The objectives are always ignored, as other forms of PvP, instanced, are more fair and fun.

    I don't care if they add it, but I am just glad they aren't bothering with it at launch.
  2. Nolrach

    Nolrach New Cupcake

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    Ha, that's not what I meant. It's not about when we get contested zones with both factions present (though in that regard, I believe the sooner, the better :p ), but about the layout of the quests areas inside contested zones. You see, in swtor, Bioware made it so that in almost every contested zones, quest zones of each faction did not overlap: like all Faction A cities and quests areas were north of the zone and Faction B 's were south. Therefore, enemy players would never meet unless one decided to venture into the opposite faction's quests zone but they had no reason/incentive to do so. I really hated this segregated distribution because it killed all wild pvp while leveling. I want both factions' quests areas to overlap as much as possible so that wild pvp will happen frequently and more important: naturally.

    It's obvious instanced forms of pvp are more fair, they're designed to be as fair as possible and take place in a controlled environment to eliminate as many random factors as possible etc...
    More fun ? Meh, that's just one of many opinions :p I would never trade my arenas / bg for open world obectives only. Yet, as much as I love instanced pvp, sooner or later its repetitiveness would make me thankful there's a less predictable form of pvp like open world objectives. And sometimes unpredictability means unfairness, it's random that's what makes it fun and so hard to implement successfully.
  3. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    No thanks, I prefer warplots. It is even more random, but still fair.
  4. stabbedbyapanda

    stabbedbyapanda New Cupcake

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    i read through a bit but the no objective-based world pvp has me worried, What the hell is the point of settler then, because how i saw it was he(with several other) could build a city/ all the Npc citys then the opposing faction sieged and so forth, then explorer claims territory allowing settlers to build on that territory, now im imaging it this way exploring claims land for no reason just because a quest say it, several other explores do the same thing( no real reason just because its a quest) then settler just builds the Npc citys till theres no more room because nothing is destroyed so sooner or later settlers will be pointless for newer players in a couple of months because im sure the building as it is in every other game where you select a plot to build on with limited space, allowing no room for new settlers to build.

    if how i said it is in the second part, then i most likely wont buy the game i thought this was going to be an upgraded Warhammer or Guild wars 2 but fix the stuff that was all wrong in that game, since GW2 is warhammer slightly upgrade then super downgraded
  5. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    you haven't read up enough on it, there are only specific plots where settlers can build, and those structures only last for a limited amount of time unless other players contribute mats to extend the time it stays up....( and we are talking minutes not days ). So if there are no players contributing mats, then the outpost structure goes away after a short time, which is why they are able to be attacked and destroyed by the opposite faction.
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  6. stabbedbyapanda

    stabbedbyapanda New Cupcake

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    Those points are siegeable/captureable? thats good to hear and thank you, i did not want to read 17 pages lol. will this be like forts with walls and maybe bigger? or outpost 2-3 buildings and will there be any reason to actually keep these running?
  7. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    The example was given of a small building with like a buff station and a vendor, and also a taxi station that gave you bikes to ride around the zone. These are not fortified with walls or anything like that, but there may be NPC guards stationed there. ( picture something like the horde outpost in swamp of sorrows or STV, but no walls ).
    You can't "capture" these as far as whats been said already, it's just attack and destroy.
    Any of the bigger settler buildings they have talked about not being siegeable, but haven't expanded on where those are at in the world.
  8. stabbedbyapanda

    stabbedbyapanda New Cupcake

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    ugh ok thanks, now im worried again
  9. Anstalt

    Anstalt Cupcake-About-Town

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    Objective based world pvp is my favourite MMO activity and I've seen it work in WAR and LOTRO.

    In LOTRO, you didn't have a choice (only world pvp, no warzones or anything) but within world pvp, fighting over keeps was very common. There were two reasons for this. Firstly, the NPCs within a keep helped balance out most imbalances in numbers so it helped keep the majority of fights pretty fair. Secondly, at many times throughout lotro's history, taking objectives provided rewards. Sometimes this reward was access to a secondary pvp zone, sometimes it was loot and other times (now?) it was direct pvp rank (renown/valor).

    In WAR, world pvp in the RvR lakes was always the most popular activity. Maybe this was simply because the game was aimed at pvpers who prefered world pvp, or maybe it was because of the games design. Either way, world pvp was and still is very vibrant and objectives (keeps plus battlefield objectives) remain the focus of world pvp. They provide great places to have a fight, reward you with rank for taking a holding them, and in the case of keep sieges and city sieges, they can also provide you with great loot. I think what kept the balance between instanced and world pvp working in WAR was the differences in playstyle and rewards. World PvP in WAR was mostly about getting together with your guild / alliance and trying to achieve something meaningful whilst having a laugh. The loot and rewards were better than instanced pvp if you were successful and still decent if unsuccessful. The instanced pvp was still fun but really only if you had a premade of 6 people. The rewards from their instanced pvp were also (initially) different from world pvp: some of the best weapons could only be gotten from instanced pvp.



    As to fairness and fun, the former can never be achieved and the latter is subjective. Whilst I was playing WAR and SW:TOR, I'd say perhaps 5% of the instanced pvp matches I had were "fair", the other 95% were imbalanced. Yes, you can control the numbers on both sides and you can attempt to balance gear / ratings but ultimately one side is going to be more skilled and have better classes than the other. Thats fine, its one way to play and I enjoy it. World PvP, on the other hand, has the same imbalances as well as the numbers imbalance. However, in some MMOs they put in self-balancing mechanisms and, in my experience, this leads to a higher percentage of fighting being balanced. In LOTRO, for example, keeps are defended by NPCs that generally get bigger / harder the further you go in. So, if one side has an advantage, the losing side will retreat to the keep. The initial NPCs might balance the situation but if not the defenders can retreat further inside. A lot of the time a balance will be reached where NPCs + Defenders = Attackers and good fun is had by all. This also usually leads to some great situations with respawning NPCs tipping the balance.

    Now, obviously NPCs aren't practical for balancing world pvp if you have large playerbases participating in pvp so the devs would need to find additional mechanics to help. However, world pvp with self-balancing mechanics, in my experience, leads to more fun and more balanced fights than instanced pvp.
  10. Fishsticks

    Fishsticks Cupcake-About-Town

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    Arise thread! ARISE !!!!!

    [​IMG]
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  11. Aneu

    Aneu Cupcake

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    Now that Carbine has given itself some more space in order to manoeuvre can we get an update on whether or not open world objectives are being given more thought? I believe a huge swathe of the community would like something to do with regards to a "galactic conflict" and the feeling of something to strive towards in this setting would be great, especially in a non-instanced fashion.
  12. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    I do not think that anything has changed on their end in regards to objective based open world PvP. I would love to see it happen but if Carbine wants to study player-zone interaction for PvP on a large scale before implementing, I can live with that. Good things come to those who wait. I will endeavor to appear to have the patience of the sands, at least for now.
  13. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    Most of the PvP would be instanced, Open world is fine to not have objectives. As long as there is multiple level 60 zones to squash others like puny bugs... Ill be happy. And now that there is the Credd system, To smash the people that are collecting Mats to sell on the commodities. People will be fighting for the comodities, to me that is objective enough.


    For me Because of this system I will for sure roll on a PvP server. And kill the people that are trying to take my materials...... that i am going to sell.
  14. Aneu

    Aneu Cupcake

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    Players are like water - They generally tend to take the path of least resistance and hunting around in the open world (while fun to begin with) will wear people down and bore a lot especially when the zones stop getting used when people get more towards endgame. Guilds may decide to organise something against one another but again there are warplots that give rewards which means it will be more incentivised to focus on a warplot than on open world. If there were objectives however then these zones would have far more use than they would otherwise, especially from those who like PvP.

    Experience from previous Open world objectives also have shown quite a few downfalls so the following is a light list of things that should be included with open world.
    • Bosses make great objectives but simply placing a boss on a regular respawn and making it patrol is very inefficient. As soon in Aion they can be pretty much "owned" by a single guild who are lucky enough to catch it at an off time and continue to farm it. There needs to be a random factor involved and also a pre-requisite involved in getting the boss. Rather than spawning the boss straight objectives should be put in place with global markers in order to create incentives for people to come to those points and fight for them.
    • King of the hill works great when creating open world combat situations. Notification and timers are also a great incentive for people to push themselves (especially if they are losing and time is running out).
    • Make sure incentives give guilds something as well as individuals. Guilds tend to create a back bone when in open world situations and give single players something to strive towards (also create more of a community feeling).
    • The reward needs to be something that can continually be used and markets can be created around otherwise these open world situations will eventually drop off and not be used.
    There are far more points than this, this is just to start. :)
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  15. Aneu

    Aneu Cupcake

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    I think I should define my perspective of OWPvP as large scale as opposed to hunting down individuals and ganking them. I don't find the individual ganking that much fun and would much prefer to roll out as a guild and find other guilds to fight. Obviously this is a perspective from a PvP guild leader and this is something I enjoy and I also appreciate that you as a single player would prefer smaller scale 1 on 1 situations that will still be in the game even if OWobjectives were put in.
  16. Nightshade

    Nightshade New Cupcake

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    Will there be a way to turn off PVP XP, for instance, if i want to make a twink. Which will be very possible given the ELO system.
  17. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

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    Elo doesn't apply while leveling, and your gear is normalized. What would be the point of twinking exactly?
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  18. Nightshade

    Nightshade New Cupcake

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    You might not understand it, but some of my fondest memories from wow where from compiling a list of easily acheivable items and build a character with a limited skill set to test out against other players in a battle ground. It was less so the OP factor, and more about capturing that lowbie early game experience in a repeatable way through battlegrounds, and developing an "endgame build" for a lower level bracket. It was also all doable with the help of only one eprson.

    I dunno, i just really enjoyed it. I think one my fondest memories in wow was waking up at 3am to try and get the Straglethorn forest area chest, collecting the tokens and getting that trinket, or competing in the fishing competition. It was a really fun adventure, simpler and different from the end game gear tread mill, and didnt require alot of grinding at endgame.

    Maybe the solo endgame focus of wildstar and the LAS will remove the things that made twinking fun for me, but id love to have a twink again, and recreate that experience. :)
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  19. Screenager

    Screenager Cupcake-About-Town

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    I fully understand Aneu's point of view and lots of focus on open world pvp would be fantastic. As it stands I'm fairly happy to have a limited about of pvp assuming what's done is done well.

    It will however be interesting to see if we get open world bosses at all and how much the quest lines interact with the opposing races. It's all very much up in the air at the moment and I'm pretty happy to wait and see.... Saying all this any chance to take the guild out and run around as a group smashing up the town... I'll take it
  20. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Necro'd hard, but I'll allow it :p.

    I think Gazimoff's Gamescom article hinted at how open world pvp will be promoted, or at least in one zone, with the "Giant walking robot bases" - that act as both a target and a defensive site for each factions members.

    I wouldn't count WS out on the OwPvP front just yet, but I would love to read more details on what we will have for launch and possibly what is floating around as ideas just now?
    Oconnell likes this.

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