Community Uplink - Tradeskill Enjoyment

Discussion in 'WildStar News' started by Zap-Robo, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. Zap-Robo

    Zap-Robo Administrator • King Cupcake

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    Carbine are kicking off a new Community Uplink over on Twitter today - this time focusing on what the community enjoys about tradeskills the most. Share your favourite from another game, theorycraft your own, or otherwise have your say! Remember, include the #WSuplink hashtag when replying on Twitter (or just let us know your thoughts here!)

    ( Read more )
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  2. Anhrez

    Anhrez Cupcake-About-Town

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    I just posted the Wildstar Community Question about Crafting, I guess timing is everything.

    www.settlerinexile.com
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  3. Roland Daemon

    Roland Daemon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Alright. Twitter can't do this question justice at ALL with 140 characters... lot of the questions lately have been like that... but lets get down to buisness.

    First of all, Tradeskills are about one thing: Making things that can't get normally. Yeah, there will be a few things similiar in-game that you can just buy, but much like real-life.. getting your hands 'dirty' makes you appreciate what you make and you get an attachment. In a sense, crafting is very much a part of the immersion.

    You don't want a system that's too boring (like WoW... it was just gather mats and press a button, wait and done) but you don't want things to be too tedious (Guild wars 2, while a noble effort, was just that... tedious.. .though cooking had a special place in my heart cause you had to think what could be made... but in the end, you could just look up online how to get things)

    Honestly, I think Swtor's crafting, if we HAVE to use that setup was the best because you had the base items, and there was a chance of getting rarer stuff if you crafted it enough. While I don't like the RNG portion of that... if we had something simliar (like, lets say a mob drops a recipe, but if you already know it.. there's a way to tweak the recipe into something else or somethign strong) I would be okay.

    The thing I hope to see in Wildstar for crafting is that we are dependant on other people to finish our crafts. The biggest example I can think of for this was Engineer's in WoW (even now, they're the only profession that requires other professions to get things done). You need things from tailors, leatherworkers, blacksmiths and even enchanters... you needed it all to make anything fun or fancy... and I liked that. It forced me to look in the auction house, and if the prices were too high for what I Was willing to pay for, I went out and wasted time to get the materials or I just started talking to the local town chat or trade to get what I needed. I also hope the crafting takes forever to level up because It should take time to get to the highest stages of a craft. I make chainmail IRL and i've spent hours and hours and hours making anything and everything and I still feel like i'm new to it.

    Crafting, is almost as important as the base gameplay in MMO's because it serves as a conversation started, a trophy to show off if you're able to reach the lofty heights that some tradeskills required (hitting 300 in most crafts in WoW in early/mid Nilla was impressive) and it gave people something to do than just killing mobs, doing quests. It brought the world almost full-circle.

    I'm hoping the crafting in this game, if nothing else, is smooth and not clunky. If I have the items anywhere, bank or bags, I should be able to craft wherever a table is available.

    TL;DR

    Crafting is social and brings a huge, important element into the game, Socially and Game-wise.
    Crafting SHOULD be dependent on other people, make it hard to level the crafts so it makes people want to specialize and not be able to self-sustain themselves, or at the very least... the best items should require other people with other tradeskills.
  4. JCwildthing

    JCwildthing Cupcake

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    Trade skills add more to the immersion factor in an MMO. Creating something for your character or community helps one buy in to that character's place in the story, lore, and/or dynamic community.
  5. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    Crafting needs to be part of the worthwhile eldergame.
    Needs to be worthwhile even at cap. Folks should still seek out crafters, and specific crafters because they specialise in something or make exactly what they want.

    Being able to improve my crafting with time, unlock new things or use materials to experiment with outcomes. Go on treks into the world to get rare components that will change what I craft.

    Im sure youve heard it all before.

    What I would like to add is the ability to have a crafting discipline that works into housing. We already know about crafting for the circuit board with one more being not shown. Even if housing centered crafting isnt being worked on now, if its ever added, that would be my craft of choice.
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  6. Kahran Ramsus

    Kahran Ramsus New Cupcake

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    I think Classic WoW had the best crafting, to me personally. Every green/blue you could make while leveling your profession was useful to you. You could even find green/blue quality recipes to make items that you didn't just get from a profession trainer, then if you wanted you could farm the materials and sell those items for extra cash.

    Every crafted item was stamped with a "Made by Name" as well (EX: <Made by Kahran>). This would help bring the community to the dedicated crafters. This is also aided with the concept of having higher quality (In WoW's case, purple) recipes, especially at max level. If there were epic quality recipes at max level as random drops, the dedicated crafters that find them (or buy them from the one who did find it and can't use it) can get their name out there in the community easier.

    Another great aspect, as annoying as it was, was actually having high quality materials crafted in one profession, but used in others, on a cooldown. For my reference, it was Arcanite being transmuted in Alchemy but mostly used in Blacksmithing. This concept encouraged crafters to go to other crafters for materials regularly and set up a regular trading system with others, which brought community members together. It also promoted extra value to higher quality items using these materials, to ensure that a crafter could use that profession as a source of income.

    Most importantly, having "epic" quality recipes at max level that can be crafted for others or for only yourself. It sucks spending all that time working on a profession and then never having a reason to use it for yourself at max level beyond making lower quality stuff for other people.

    The last main point would be to make crafting bulk amounts of items (Trying to make 250 Ore into Bars) go faster the more it makes. It was a really strong feature used in Guild Wars 2, and no one in WoW ever enjoyed sitting at their PC waiting for 3-5 seconds per bar when they're making 200 bars. Everyone got up and went AFK.

    Those are the biggest points of crafting for me, but there are a couple other small points of other games I liked. SWeaTOR allowed you to disassemble an item with a chance to learn a higher quality recipe from it. (EX: Craft a green, Disassemble the green for a chance at the same recipe, but blue quality. Craft blue, disassemble for chance at purple.) It was a cool feature that promoted crafting steadily throughout the game. However it was not necessary to do at all.

    While I said to mix some of the gathering/crafting together, don't mix it too much. Don't force people to get two gathering professions for a single crafting profession. Don't make one gathering or crafting profession too useful in other crafting profession to the point the point they need them all.

    Above all else, don't make crafting a game of RNG, don't make crafting fail, and don't make it take 5 hours of gathering to collect materials for a single craft. There is nothing more irritating than the Aion crafting system. Relying on a small chance to get a recipe to "proc" a higher quality version, and then using that version to craft a higher quality version that can "proc" as well. Failing at making something is also the worst thing to see. You don't want to gather for 3 hours for materials for a single craft and watch it fail and consume all the mats either. Even more so if you're crafting an epic item and it fails.

    Sorry about the huge /walloftext, but I can't exactly fit all of this on Twitter either. I hope this is either very helpful, or completely unnecessary because the professions are already similar to this.
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  7. Glacius

    Glacius Cupcake-About-Town

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    I actually never liked doing tradeskills in any game so far; I felt that they were a chore and a necessity to get the bonuses for endgame content, like extra sockets or profession-specific item enhancements in WoW. Aside from that, I wouldn't have bothered.

    Engineering, however, had some cool gadgets that you could make. While they didn't really effect gameplay, they had cool active abilities that made you smaller or whatnot. The helicopter mount was also something that was fun to get. Other than that, however, it all felt like a huge time and goldsink and it was dreadful.

    I think that there needs to be a revamp of tradeskills. There should be mini-games associated with tradeskills and not just gathering X amount of ore and then Y amount of arbitrary mat that is almost impossible to find just for a chance at 5 skill-ups. One example could be a bejeweled-esque minigame for a particular tradeskill that would actually make it enjoyable.

    Don't make it a requirement to level two crafting professions just because of the bonuses that it offers for min/maxing.
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  8. Scelestic

    Scelestic Cupcake

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    Is my Response!
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  9. 3seed

    3seed Cupcake

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    I enjoy trade skills as a compliment to other more actiony game elements. If done right, I even find them relaxing, a way to de-stress through resource collecting and leveling up skills. Plus there's the satisfaction of making something, different from what we normally do in MMOs, which is to kill stuffs.
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  10. Zinn

    Zinn Cupcake-About-Town

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    I recently posted an answer to this question in this thread.

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  11. Inukeu

    Inukeu Well-Known Cupcake

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    I enjoy making somthing useful/fun/relevent for people to use if what I can craft is pointless because people can just go get far better gear somwhere else then whats the point of spending all the time traveling around the world fighting the wildlife and gathering mats and grinding the skill lvl's up?

    Also it would be nice if crafting was more of a mini game or anything more involved then collect XYZ and press a button :rolleyes:
  12. Phakz

    Phakz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Id love to see there be something only a few people can make on each server or something like that. It would be cool to be "known" as the best in your certain crafting profession. Also, please avoid making crafting easy. I want it to feel like I accomplished something after I crafted a very good item.
  13. Ninereeds

    Ninereeds Cupcake-About-Town

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    Personally I would enjoy it more if it didn't have such a focus on leveling and opening up new recipes for things you will never use. In WoW I always waited until I hit max level to work on professions so I would have something to do when I was bored, and then I just bought the materials I needed or farmed them and then sat at an anvil for an hour hitting "create all" while I made countless Copper Rods that served absolutely no purpose.

    What I would like to see if I were designing a professions system from the ground up would be a system that had one of two things or a combo.

    Option A would consist of never making the small componants but would live solely in producing items. For example if I were an Engineer I wouldn't have to bother with making Copper Tubes, I would just use them with other items I would have to try and find through shops, drops, and chat. Then I would attempt to make an item. If I'm sucessful I get the item and if I try to make the item again it would have a bonus stat on it if successful, if I fail then I lose some of the materials, I salvage the rest, and then I have a better chance of making the item the next attempt. Basically my character would "learn" from the attempt and try and get better. This would cut out wasted time in making mats and keep the game from getting insane profession skill levels in the hundreds that just keeps the player from enjoying the game.

    Option B would be a mini game of some kind associated with the profession. Like a bejeweled type game for a Jewlery crafter, or a memory type game for another profession, just anything other than a click to make format. Even something involving a skill shot type of format like profession work in Fable 2 for example would be fine. Just anything to make it interactive and feel like I'm actually doing something. If you fail the game you don't make the item, if you complete the mini game well then you get an item with a bonus.
  14. Celtkhan

    Celtkhan Well-Known Cupcake

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    I also like the idea of specializations. My warrior was an Armorsmith in classic WoW, and I loved questing to unlock it. More than that, it was something to set me apart from all the other blacksmiths. It should be something I can profit from, too; I HATED in TBC that I only got a single item and could only make it for myself: it just felt like lazy game design.
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  15. Keda

    Keda New Cupcake

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    And if we could make objects with 2 or 3 or ... crafters. A kind of cooperation between several crafters?
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  16. Archales

    Archales Cupcake

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    I think the best crafting system I've seen in a game was in EQ2, I liked how engaging it was and how I couldn't just afk out while grinding out my tradeskills.
  17. 3seed

    3seed Cupcake

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    I just want to point out that this is a nice collection of potential best practices in crafting. Nice summary!
  18. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Crafting that allows you to make raid level gear assuming you get raid level components (like WoW's orbs etc), whilst it should supplement raid gear and not provide a full armor path, if it doesn't have any meaningful benefits then it just feels like a bit of a pointless sideshow.

    That and experimentation, I loved the ideas behind GW2 and WAR's crafting where you mix and match components of different stats and rarities to create a powerful item combos.
  19. Draegan

    Draegan Cupcake

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    To me crafting has always been annoying and only done in games like WOW because it gave bonuses. I had crafting, but mostly that's due to having to farm endless hours for mats to level up a tradeskill that usually offers nothing useful during the leveling process.

    Then I usually level a TS at level cap just to have and never end up using it.

    I hate gathering. I hate running in circles doing nothing but click on nodes.

    This is why I almost enjoyed crafting in SWTOR. So if Wildstar can make the gathering aspect not stupid, then I can grow to appreciate crafting again. It seems like they are doing gathering like Zelda so that seems interesting and collecting in your house. So hopefully I don't have to spend hours running in circles clicking on plants.

    Edit to add:
    The microchip system looks awesome, so I'm interested in seeing how it's all tied together.
  20. Rokras

    Rokras New Cupcake

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    The best example i've found for crafting would be EVE, granted this is more to do with gameplay dynamics than pure crafting fun. However, you can chose the farm the easy to find items and make said gear, or you can go out with a group of your buddies and farm the harder to find stuff while other people in say your guild would be around protecting you from attacks, for a cut of the profits. Then when it came down to making said item you had to buy whatever blueprint you wanted to use and make copies in order to produce more of them, this way it wasn't about having a huge list of recipes you'd never use but more about grabbing the recipe you want to use and crafting the item. And finally the best part of the entire thing was that if you had a resources you could set up a mining, and productions facilities or use some in the city to gather/produce while you were away and you could spend the time you had in game off adventuring or simply collecting your profits. This type of system being better for people who don't have a lot of time in game but still have the drive to find a way to still be part of the community.

    If i could create anything I think i'd have a system where you learned to make boots and ect or whatever type and the more time you spent making that item the better you got at it.(Not unlike the SWTOR system mentioned earlier in this thread) No having to go find recipes or learning them or leveling up your profession through recipes you'd never use again but more of a system where every effort you put into the system not only made you more able to produce better quality but the stuff you could make would be a reflection of what you were more interested in and if you wanted to put the time into it you could level up all the separate areas.

    A few things to note though are that I'd like a system that you can start crafting something and come back later... like how in SWTOR you could have your crew craft something while you did other things. However if the crafting was some sort of mini game that was intriguing but not overly difficult (not timed) Or was something you'd enjoy casually doing over and over again. Sure make it hard to get the better stuff but don't make it impossible to play for decent stuff, just cuz you're killing time.

    Something that would be interesting to at least try out is have purchase orders, or work orders. So like someone could put in an order for some new boots(yes i'm focused on boots today) or 500 boots of such and such quality and stats. When you go to the "auction house" or even just open your crafting window you see the orders out there and you can choose to accept the order and fill it. That way people know what others want and how much people are willing to pay for said item. Granted this won't stop them from making an item and then selling it on the "auction house" to try and get over a specific amount for it. But maybe this way people could have more incentive to craft useful items as they level.

    Maybe this could even be helped by some sort of statistical graph that would show people what was in demand and what was in supply so they could easily come in and make a few of x y and z items to even out the supply or just make x because it has the most demand.

    Really at the end of the day so long as I can still wander off and craft something that I can sell so I can having fun in the game I won't care what the details are. But I'd prefer something that has stuff I can craft that people will actually need and want not just for their leveling or to augment what never drops for them.

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