1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Cross-Realm Blues

Discussion in 'Gaming Arena' started by Yakzan, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Nym

    Nym Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2013
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    28
    The issue with wow like I stated before the was that Open World PvP had no incentive it. Players just did it because it was the only option, which eventually grows old and tiresome. Had wow given a greater reason to attack world pvp objectives you would have seen more people world pvping even after the addition of Battlegrounds.
  2. Shadydemise

    Shadydemise Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    76
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I'll add that this directly translated to PvE as well. The server generally knew who the good players were. Players became known and it was awesome grouping with players from other guilds for dungeons. Even though the guilds were competing for boss kills, there was generally a mutual respect between most of the raiders. Let's not forget what this can mean for new players as well. When I was just starting 40-man raids and only in a few epics, I grouped with a tank in mostly t2. He commented that I was doing awesome dps for my gear and gave me a few tips for loot priority. Afterwards, we still communicated outside the dungeon and became friends. It was awesome that this warrior from one of the best guilds on the server helped me out. I think when you throw in cross-realm PvE, you remove this aspect of community. Guilds can more or less stay grouped solely by themselves and fill in the leftover spots through a LFG tool. You don't get the chance to meet great people that, as JarNod mentioned, you can actually interact with after the dungeon.

    It's a tough call sacrificing efficiency for community. If they do have a cross-server LFG tool, I hope they at least allow a way to communicate with those that you've grouped with in the past.
    Saza and Yakzan like this.
  3. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Likes Received:
    629
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Orlando, FL
    Good post, Yak.

    I am a fan of cross-realm, but only from the perspective of permanency. In other words, I'd like to see cross-realm guilds, and then let guilds (wherever their members reside) do whatever content.

    I don't like, however, facilitation of random cross-realm groups or pugs. It's bad enough on a local server, but that pushes it to a whole different level.

    While there might need to be a critical mass of players for certain game features, I think that's ok and can be accommodated as long as the "guild" construct is at the center of all cross-realm systems.

    Easier said than done, I know!
    Yakzan and Kurik Lein like this.
  4. Kurik

    Kurik Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2012
    Likes Received:
    1,082
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Texas
    As some of you know I'm pretty much against cross-server anything, having LFG tools and such within the server I would be content with. This may sound bad but I'd rather a server community struggle with finding groups and try to work it out than have cross-server features. :p I believe encouraging the guilds and tight knit groups somehow to mentor and play with others would be better for server communities.

    On a similar note, when we were discussing this in mumble a while back I brought up Demon's Souls and its co-op. Maybe there could be a system where you would "summon" players of the same faction on your friends list for a certain amount of time to your server. I think this could be a good alternative with some tweaking.
    Kataryna and Yakzan like this.
  5. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Behind You
    I am a bit mixed regarding cross-realm. I come from the old school MMO world where server was all you got. That being said, I very rarely had trouble finding groups for content. Even in EverQuest which (even in Kunark era) was HUGE in comparison to say, BC era WoW. Rarely had trouble at any level.

    Now that being said, WoW is an entirely different beast. The issue is not so much population in a zone, but how much Blizzard (and pretty much everyone since WoW) has focused on a single player experience with grouping as a secondary feature. The old school games were much more group based and as such, required people stick together. Probably why you saw a lot more availability for grouping.

    Regarding WoW, I have always played on a very high population (Doomhammer) server. Even so, finding groups for dungeons, etc has always been more of a pain. Even in vanilla. Because I am a veteran MMO player, I love server communities because that's what I started with. However, I also hate sitting around for two hours trying to find a group to do a 20 minute dungeon. For that, cross-server dungeon finder really helped. Some may not recall, but WoW's original BG/dungeon finder was server only and people were waiting forever. Hence the introduction of cross-server battle groups and the progression from there. Even now, I can often wait for an hour just to find a tank for a random 5 man. Of course, that is due more to a lack of tanks thanks to tank abuse than anything.....

    I honestly have not had a huge issue with the cross-server BGs (what little I do of them) or the cross-server dungeons. What really got my craw is this stupid cross-server regular zones Blizzard implemented before MoP's release. Now instead of competing with one other person on my realm for resources or quest mobs, I end up competing with 10 people from all over creation. That is highly annoying. Of course that is also Blizzard's answer to griping about open world population instead of condensing servers. As long as Carbine steers clear of that type of implementation, as much as I would love a single server community, I can deal with cross-server dungeons if necessary.
    Yakzan likes this.
  6. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Since you acknowledge that a current hour-long wait can be attributed to a lack of a certain class, do you think the former implementation of a server only LFG tool may have had similarly long wait times because of class balance issues?
  7. Kirathis

    Kirathis Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2011
    Likes Received:
    90
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Behind You
    More role issues than class issues but yes. However, I would say it was more of a combination of both role and available player-base issues.
  8. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    743
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Iceland
    Ok, to start I won‘t be replying directly because that‘d bulk up the post more than it is, so bear with me.

    One point mentioned was that it was an evolution of MMOs, especially bigger ones. The trend is certainly there with TSW‘s megaserver, cross-realm features appear in MMOs in general, and so forth. Does following a trend make right, though? Does every game have to do the same thing? It does work for that game but will it work for this one? “Evolution” I feel is the wrong term because of this. I feel it’s one kind of feature that works for that kind of game. WoW has become a game for its audience, but we’re here looking for another game because we don’t like the games out there enough, aren’t we? I am, at least, but that doesn’t mean everyone who follows a new MMO is. That’s a different question altogether though.

    I see claimed that cross-realm features saved lower population servers. I don’t agree because to me it’s like vegetablizing a person. I’ll touch on this more later. I feel that cross-realm matchmaking was a bandage solution to the general issue that is server population management. It is a solution, but its effects were profound. Another solution must be found, I feel. How to maintain a healthy server population, thus server community, should be researched much more heavily than just going, “Oh, we’ll just throw everyone into the same pool.” Which brings up the point of what a server and its community truly are. I will touch upon this later as well. Other ways to handle low server populations need to be found. Obviously using simple labels is not enough because it’s still an issue. What can developers do to encourage people spreading out more? What can they do to prevent having too many servers and not having the overall population to fill them up?

    I feel something that should be done is an emphasis on communicating with each server’s community. Developers should let the community take an active role in how to manage their server. I even saw a post many years ago in WoW when a low population server was getting merged. The post stated that the server was happy with how it was because they had developed a community and liked it and were afraid what were to happen if these two server communities were to merge. What can Carbine do to facilitate this kind of communication? Should there be councils made of key players, either elected or selected? Should simple polls be used? Should there be community staff dedicated to each server? This could even connect into far more intricate community interactions such as GM supported events and such, but I digress, back on topic.

    I see the argument that tight-knit communities are for smaller MMOs only and larger, more mainstream MMOs shouldn’t support them. I disagree, especially when it comes to server communities. Imagine an MMO as a country or nation, each server can be a bustling city or quaint small towns and villages. Because an MMO is popular and has a large overall population doesn’t mean that smaller sub-communities cannot exist and they most certainly do, even today in the goliath of WoW. Some people like this, and this thread shows it. Others don’t and they look forward to the megaservers of TESO, and power to them, I hope they enjoy it and I mean it fully because I don’t want anyone forced to play something they don’t like. It just doesn’t apply to every game. It’s one evolution that people want but other people want the good ol’ way, I hope you understand as well. That said, I may be disagreeing but I don’t want your opinion squelched. Stand by it, tall and proud. I’ll do the same for mine; just let’s not get at each other’s throats because of it.
    I want to mention that I didn’t imply that this one feature ruins server communities entirely. It did specify “one aspect” of the concept known as “community reputation” which if stories given in this thread shows, it definitely has. We have JarNod explaining his heartbreak with meeting people and never meeting them again. (This has happened to me on a few occasions.) Doing dungeons was simply a great method to meet people who could help you, become friends or rivals, or find people or that guild you’re looking for. Especially considering how PvE was built up in these games, this was exceedingly important. This has affected how guilds work in these games as well. The recruitment process for many guilds has changed to reflect this. It’s hard to deny how this change has affected the community as a whole to an enormous extent.

    I wish to also interject a bit about MMO communities. To every good story there is a bad one. These stories of the “good ol’ days” are also counter-pointed by stories of long waits, never finding “that one class/role” you need, as well as plainly toxic behavior. This we cannot deny either. However, I feel that with every valley there is a peak, so you need to go with the flow. This is not to say that measures shouldn’t be taken, but to be careful to not be too extreme or it turns into a flatline.

    You cannot deny that a lot of people’s journey in WoW consists of standing around in a city and hitting the queue button. Suddenly this massive world is entirely optional and it shows. Most of the population is concentrated in cities now. Measures should definitely be taken to prevent this. I’m not saying to completely abolish matchmaking altogether, but find ways to make this work. Active participation out in the world needs to be encouraged, or why even have a world? One could argue why games don’t exist that are simply a city to be used as a lobby where you can just go and do instances? (Nice meeting you there, Vindictus and other similar games!)

    XP/Hour is definitely a concept worth exploring in this regard. MMOs are a great way to discover new things and they should promote this behavior. Like mentioned before, simply queuing for whatever makes the process of maximizing XP/hour relatively painless with fairly little traveling or effort beyond going through the motions time and again. I feel this also helps make dungeons feel staler fast. Some people enjoy this, others do not. I feel that newer MMOs should more appeal to the “do not” crowd because there are plenty of games out already that support the “do” crowd, but that’s just my opinion.

    Another concept to bring up is “forced social interaction.” This is a relic from more innocent times. Carbine already mentioned that they don’t want to force social interactions on you entirely, but rather encourage them. For a game of their scope, I agree that this is the wisest decision. However, how far does it go? What can they do to encourage, yet not force, social interaction? This is why we’re here, are we not? I mean, we’re part of this community so there is that yearning somewhere. Encouraging this interaction promotes community reputation building as well as finding new people and experiences.

    I’d also like to introduce an idea I got from reading the thread. The concept of a “dungeon” has changed over the years. Dungeons used to be bigger, more mazelike and take quite a bit of time. Now, they tend to be linear, quick, and easy. There are people who love both. A system that finds a compromise between these two parties is not easy. My idea is that the definition and the content needs to be more refined. How about the dungeons and LFG we know from WoW are in the game? That appeals to one party, certainly. What about also having these larger dungeons from days of yore but without this same matchmaking and different LFG tools? Appeals to the other party as well. There are issues, of course. The “denying me content” issue is one (A non-issue, I feel.) Itemization between these types of content is another. Then here comes the big bad issue which is developer resources. Making content to cater to both at the same time is even more strenuous to developer time and resources. This is not ideal, but an idea.

    Now, this goes back to LFG tools. Clearly improvements need to be made. They didn’t work enough back in the day. People tended to always resort to using chat channels instead. LFG tools are needed and they need to work. Ideas have come up like prioritizing the server you’re on. Something I feel needs to be done is that it needs to be integrated, introduced and promoted. The ones I’ve seen before can be clumsy or flat-out unknown to most of the player base.

    I have more to talk about but this will do for now.
  9. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2012
    Likes Received:
    638
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Easy to fix this one, no buffs from using the finder, or even better give people a debuff.

    Because Blizzard caved the the stupid wishes of the masses doesn't mean it's a good solution for the low population problems. Think the community would have benefited more from server merges then an x-realm tool imho. Of course there would have been crying at first, but in the end the community would have won.

    That is a reason for me not to follow this trend. A trend is not always a good thing.
  10. Optimisticnerd

    Optimisticnerd Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    120
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    California
    About the dungeons. I like your idea about having some bigger dungeons without LFG. That is definitely something that I'd like to see happen. Perhaps we could even obtain better rewards from them as well? Carbine is about rewarding their players for doing something harder after all. Perhaps these big dungeons could even be harder than linear dungeons as well.

    And about LFG tools, even if we don't get cross-realm LFG (not that I'm begging for it, I don't much like it.), I would certainly like something that's similar where I can still queue and get teleported into dungeons, but only be grouped with people from my server. That just sounds a lot better to me.

    Edit: Also, no stupid buffs for dungeon finder/LFG. That's just dumbing down content.
    Yakzan likes this.
  11. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    43
    In regards to this "bigger dungeons" idea, I think a good recent example can be found in TERA's public dungeons. They differed from the instanced dungeons in that they were huge. Sprawling tunnels, lots of mobs, even multiple floors. They had small quest hubs on each floor so that people could park their characters there between log-outs because it could definitely take you more than one play session to complete them, especially on a PvP server. :D

    Another benefit to these, I think, is that I believe they'd cut down on the necessity of a LFG tool, cross-server or otherwise. You don't need a group to enter or complete any of the quests inside, but because they're completely open to everyone people will join you eventually anyway, and two, or three or four, people can complete a quest much faster than one, giving you plenty of incentive to extend a group invite.
    Yakzan likes this.
  12. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    743
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Iceland
    I had no idea more recent MMOs even considered bringing back these kind of dungeons, I'm gonna have to investigate that if I get my client working again. Bringing back these kind of dungeons with fresh, innovative changes would be a welcome change to the genre. Perhaps a cross-faction dungeon similar to DAoC's Darkness Falls? All the hijinks that could ensue! Definitely not for everyone but there is an audience for it.
    Joukehainen likes this.
  13. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Likes Received:
    454
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Denmark
    I am sorry, but I deny this.

    People being in the main city of the expansion happened long before dungeon finder. It was the only thing they could do to get a group back then, so unless they wanted to solo, they had to stay in town, or wait outside an instance and hope a group came by with the right role spot open.

    Blizzard - as the typical example - looked around to find a solution that would get more people out in the world and more people into experiencing the group content. They found dungeon finder.

    Before dungeon finder came about, people stood in cities to have access to the chat channels, so they could find groups, wether instance or for a quest. Today they only have to for raid pugs and quest pugs - and it is annoying not having access to the lfg chats for that out in the world. Having to sit in the city long is not fun, unless your primary reason for logging on is to chat.

    At max level people had 2 choices for what they did before dungeon finder got into the game - if not in a good guild community or with an active friends list, naturally. One choice was to sit in a city trying to get a group or a raid. The other choice was to spend their gametime soloing (and back then, there were not all that much solo content for max level) until either guildies or friends logged on. Which means a lot of people sat in the cities to find groups.

    With dungeon finder more people can do solo/part group content while finding a full group, and they do, lots of people have moved out of the city and into the world, thanks to dungeon finders. We are talking about the people, who are not blessed with an active guild or friends list.

    I am pretty sure that those who have success with a lot of ingame contacts will still choose to make their group from that rather than queue up alone - at least they do in my guild and in most of the guilds, I have friends in. Because it is more fun. Just today I did LFR with a same server pug group that I helped finishing a legendary quest with - lucky me I was running through the city at the right time to even get into the group :p

    crossrealm account battletag /grouping: good, not all my gamer friends are on the same server, so it is a really nice feature enabling grouping crossrealms.

    crossrealm zones for underpopulted zones : good (or my preference: single server per server type and supported language)

    crossrealm instanced pvp : good

    crossrealm dungeon finder during low peak hours: good (limiting to same server during peak hours could make sense)

    Personally I would prefer a game community, and to hell with server community. If it weren't for old times technological capabilities or lack thereoff, we would not even have to discuss server communities today.

    Who is the community?
  14. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2011
    Likes Received:
    240
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The people that I get to know. Do you believe cross-realm LFG tools help you in getting to know the players you group with?
  15. Karl Pedder

    Karl Pedder Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I agree I'm not the most sociable player but I got know a lot more players before all the conveniances were added to WoW and generally enjoyed the game more. Personelly I felt the meeting stones in TBC with some minor tweaks are perfectly fine conveniance. As for cross server well I'm not a fan yes conveniant but IMO counter productive to the social aspects of the game.
  16. Optimisticnerd

    Optimisticnerd Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    120
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    California
    Though I do agree with you on the point that people in WoW have been standing around in cities long before dungeon finder, I must strongly (but respectively) disagree with you on the point that you rather have a game community.

    A server community is much more important and pivotal than a game community as a whole. The people you meet in dungeon finder are people you go in with, play with for about an hour and then quit and you never see them again.

    The reason being is that there is a certain amount of credibility when it's a server community. In my server that I was on, I was able to identify most people at a glance. I could tell you most things you would want to know: Is he good? Is he a jerk? Is he a ninja? What guilds has he been in? Has there been any drama with him in the past?

    With crossrealm dungeon finder there is a sense of anonymity that makes people think they can get away with just about anything. People can ninja loot, cuss people out, go in without knowing a boss fight, even go as far as say "you guys suck ass" then pull an entire room of mobs and leave the group. There is no consequence for their actions other than "Oh I have a 30 minute debuff" sometimes not even that, it's just a "I have to queue again"

    With server communities everything somebody does can be used either in his favor or used against him. If you have a reputation on your server for being a royal jackass, good luck getting into a guild. If you have a reputation for being a good player and a nice person, you'll have an easy time getting into a guild. For example, I was actually scouted by somebody in a better guild than the one I was in, because several people told the guild master that I was a good raid leader.

    And of course getting into good guild = downing raid bosses (with the pre-requisite that you have to be good yourself)

    Crossrealm is nice to have sure. But having it in places like dungeon finder is bad. If you want to raid with your friend from a different server, you could invite them and then queue for a LFG that would be made up of people from YOUR server and your friend(s) from different servers. But I personally hate straight up crossrealm dungeon finder. There's no accountability.

    also...
    No. This is bad. Incredibly bad. This move single handedly destroyed the WoW leveling process. Their max people allowed in a zone is 20-40 people, and it keeps filling until it's full. Which means that you can have 20+ people running around a zone like Searing Gorge. Do you know how hard it is to quest in Searing Gorge with 30 people in the zone? It took me 2 hours to complete 10 quests. I had to spend 30 minutes watching the fire elemental quest mob spawn and then get immediately tagged, so I could kill it for my quest item so I could move to the next quest hub.

    The only reason you're able to complete quests at all in WoW, is because so many people have moved to doing dungeons and have stopped even bothering with quests due to constant over population.

    What is the purpose of cross-realm zones anyways? Under population? Why do you need people there? To tag your kills and make your leveling slower? I mean, you can kill everything by yourself. There's only two or three group quests left in the entire game. They've all been nerfed to solo play! There isn't a horde/alliance killing your quest giver? It seems to me the only reason that crossrealm zones were put in, was to inconvenience the player, and to ease stress on Blizzard's servers.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not a 100% cross realm hater. But there are places that cross realm does, and does not belong. PVP is fine with me btw. They can keep crossrealm for that.

    TL;DR Server community good. Cross-realm, mostly bad. Especially cross realm zones.

    (I feel like Yakzan, my post is long.)
  17. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    285
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    London, UK
    I pretty much agree with the OP. It's a tricky subject, both solutions have good and bad sides. Personally, leaning towards larger servers but less of them across the board, eliminating at least some population issues for a fairly successful game, and keeping it all 'on the realm'. But times have changed, it may not be a viable solution anymore.

    People hide behind anonymity. No one knows me so I can be a twat. The moment your actions start to affect your reputation, you think twice before being rude.
    Now, there are some people that will be a grievance always, no matter what the incentives not to be are, but I like to believe they are a small fraction. If we were to keep everything on per server bases, there could also be no name changes allowed. The decline in server community in WoW started going downhill when they introduced that feature. Cross realm grouping just pushed it down even further.

    That's PVE. For PVP to be truly competitive, it needs to be cross server.

    Maybe I'm old fashioned, but for me, an MMO is not a solo game, I'm online because I want to interact with others. And I'd like those 'others' to be civilized, even if it means, forcing some into that state :p

    Another aspect, is guild recruitment. Back in the old days, you'd run into the same person in a dungeon few times, they turned out to be a great person and bam, here goes an invite. Cross realm LFGs practically eliminated that as chances to come across the same person from your server 2 times in a row are rather slim.

    Similarly, missing a person for a raid, wait, we actually 'know' people that are good players, lemme ask such and such if they'd like to tag along. That's non existent in WoW now. You just don't know half as many people as you used to back in the time, when server community was tight. You can't earn a reputation pugging dungeons anymore.

    But there is more to maintaining server community then dungeon tools. One of those things are group quests, or any other content the devs can throw out at us that actually requires small groups. Yes, they can be a pain in the backside, if you happen to be leveling 6 months into the game when most are already capped, and there simply aren't that many people in lower level zones anymore. However, there is a fairly easy solution to that as well.

    Create end game content across the world, not just in a zone or two. Pop high top level instances in the middle of lower level zones, have areas of interests in them for capped characters. There are a lot of people out there willing to help with quests, providing they can see the request, and don't have to run half the world to get there. It seems to me, Wildstar is heading that direction, especially considering the path related activities.

    Another way of tightening communities would be cross guild activities - give people incentive not only to fight one another, but to cooperate to achieve something substantial, together. All over the place.

    To summarize, regardless of my personal preferences, it's tough to miss times have changed and realm only attitude seems a bit outdated . The majority of players will desire an easily accessible LFG tool, preferably with short queues, therefore cross server. And that's fine, but focus on finding other ways of bringing the community together.

    In the long run, it's in the best interest, not only that of players, but also the game authors. Tighter communities have deeper loyalties. Those loyalties directly translate to $$$ for the the game producer.
  18. Patrician

    Patrician "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,013
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Land of the Danes, for now
    It's not hard for me to figure out what I'd prefer in this situation.

    I love LFG tools and even a Dungeon Finder I can get down with. GW2 was a recent example of a game that decided they didn't want to auto group people together and send them into a dungeon. At first I was like "Yeah, old school!" It wasn't until my guild members didn't log on as much and I had to hunt for extra people to group with in chat for dungeons that I realized "Yeah, old school SUCKS!"

    So I can appreciate LFG tools and what they do for content and convenience. However, as this post is about cross-realm, I can say no way.

    If they were using some kind of mega server technology, where we could easily continue playing with these people if we made friendships, then sure ok I can get behind that. However, if they are going with the traditional server model, then UGH please no.

    I would rather wait in a queue while I do solo content or chat with friends or craft or run around with my wife or Roleplay before I -ever- want cross-realm grouping in LFG tools and PvP queues. For all the reasons mentioned above, it turns every single person you fight against and every single person you group with into basically a bot. And worse, if for some reason you break that barrier of anonymity and somehow create a friendship... good luck ever seeing them again.

    So no cross-realm technology for me, please, unless there are ways to 'guest' on another server, or they use some kind of mega server tech.

    Also, one reason this failed so epicly in WoW is because they use that silly outdated 'tagging' system. GW2 and other games use a much better system of a player just getting his own loot and experience and quest credit for every mob they attack.

    Honestly "tagging" is just archaic at this point. The minute you remove the feature other players become less of a PROBLEM and more of a solution. These are MMOs after all, it's silly for someone to think "Ah <REDACTED>, another player..." when they are playing one, yet the tagging system makes that happen.

    I think I read somewhere WildStar gets that, and I hope they have a good plan to avoid the issues WoW, and it's predecessors, have had with it.
    Yakzan and Optimisticnerd like this.
  19. Optimisticnerd

    Optimisticnerd Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    120
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    California
    I agree. If it wasn't for tagging and having to go collect items for quests (and then wait for them to respawn) I would have been on board with the cross-realm zones, or more like tolerated it. The minute I heard about it I leveled 6 toons to 85 of each class so I could avoid that... Damn shame I couldn't do that with my monk... 5 hours in searing gorge... ugh...

    The system you're talking about sounds a whole lot better, and I too would very much like to see it in Wildstar. Tagging has always sucked.
    Patrician likes this.
  20. Joukehainen

    Joukehainen Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Likes Received:
    308
    Trophy Points:
    63
    /agree with OP.

    Hope drives a good point and I agree of course that match-making systems are simply an evolution of typing in LFG channels, HOWEVER! In practice they change much more than that. GW2 was a good example bc while "everything" is cross-server, everything also has open-tagging and scales up, so the quest and levelling design encourages grouping, whereas many other MMOs' game design does not.

    There also is no match-making system in GW2 for dungeons, you have to be old-fashioned about it and people stand around outside the dungeon entrances in the physical zone, asking in /says to team up. It's grorious. (There is a website and app for LFG, but those are usermade.)

    So despite making many features cross-server compatible, Arenanet did not want to make a dungeon-finder tool. So the two are not always interchangeable.

    I'm very against dungeon-finders in MMOs for the reasons OP stated. Just make a lobby game if that's what you want as a dev, not an MMO whose entire clinch is supposed to be the massive, persistant online world.

    Edits:
    @ Patrician's comment about people not logging on as much: I don't think that's solely due to the lack of a dungeon-finding tool!
    /agree with Alverad about the anonymity of dungeon-finders etc being conducive to verbal abuse and poor behaviour online. (GW2 also did what you suggest with putting high-level areas into low-level zones so you have to revisit!)
    Yakzan, Alverad and Loveless like this.

Share This Page