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Cross-Realm Blues

Discussion in 'Gaming Arena' started by Yakzan, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

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    I on the other hand feel it is the best place to put blame because it then means that you are not blaming the players or the developers. If you can openly look at a system without placing blame on either side and look at how the features are not working as intended then progress can be made.
    Yakzan likes this.
  2. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm sorry Siega, no idea if it works in PvP :(
  3. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

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    What kind of PvP are you talking about here, arenas, battlegrounds, warplots?

    Of the instanced forms of PvP we currently expect to see in Wildstar [arenas, battlegrounds and warplots] I'd only really be able to stomach arenas being cross-realm. To be upfront I despise instanced PvP because it gives my potential opponents somewhere else to be other than in the open world, where I want to engage them. That having been said, the only one of these I'd want to be cross-realm is arenas. I'll refer to what I quoted from Alverad above and state that I can see his argument as valid only for arena type PvP. Battlegrounds, which I can only currently imagine as "chunks" of the world instanced off so that we can continually fight out a specific scenario, don't have to be competitive, they only need to be fun. Skirmishes that provide an alternative to the status quo: CTF, King of the Hill, mini-games like SWTOR's Huttball. I see warplots in the same light: a specific scenario; a large-scale battleground meant for level-cap, that can provide something that open-world PvP can't [for whatever design reason or limitation] but still doesn't interfere with whatever incentive open-world PvP will provide. In both battlegrounds and warplots I want to see the same opponents I would meet in open-world PvP.

    And now just a small word on "toxic behavior" and "outdated" server communities... I love them, okay? :laugh: When WoW released my friends and I began playing on the Warsong PvP server, which was quickly [and lovingly] nicknamed Dramasong by its inhabitants because of the rampant "toxic behavior." This was the kind of server where you had as many enemies in your faction as you had friends in the other. Two Alliance guilds that would constantly bad mouth each other decided to take their frustration out in the Stranglethorn Vale arena, the first attempt of which became such a realm-wide event that it crashed the server. Their second attempt was kept secret but recorded for posterity. When TERA launched my PvP server was known to be particularly nasty. The troll havens of 4chan and Something Awful both had multiple guilds there with hundreds of members, not to mention the dozens of other guilds filled with similarly minded gamers. My guild managed to strike up multiple rivalries but the fact that we were all "stuck" there together meant that despite whatever "toxic behavior" we dished out at each other we were a community and we had to make it positive in ways that we enjoyed, like organizing PvP tournaments during which everyone agreed to ditch their egos and biases for but a short while. Now that the populations on TERA servers have decreased significantly and mergers and renaming has occurred many of the people who would curse each other out in General chat are guildmates, and the official forums are full of people who speak of the atmosphere created on those servers with fondness.

    Now I'll echo others in stating that I do not believe cross-realm tools and technology are the sole reason for the decline of the kind of community I enjoy, but I'd have to state that I don't believe they add anything. I don't believe they make these communities better in any way, and despite giving people a larger pool of gamers to play with what they also do is dilute the kind of community I enjoy being a part of. So I'd like to know if proponents of cross-realm tools, technology or environments [LFG, LFR, battlegrounds] believe that they can positively affect the kind of communities I described above.
    JarNod, Alverad and Yakzan like this.
  4. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    Battlegrounds and arenas. We do not know enough about warplots at this time to speculate. Basically, any type of pvp activity that comes with score boards and aims at e-sport status. Since we don't really know what Wildstar has in mind for it's pvp, it's tough to say yes or no, in regards to that particular game; but for me, competitive pvp within a game, is only truly competitive if you have a chance at playing against anyone.

    Being in the top team on your realm doesn't really tell us much about your skill, you may be the greatest pvper out there, or just an average one on a server whos population has little to no interest in that type of play ;). It's like any sport really. It's not the case in PVE simply because you're fighting AI that executes the same, predictible actions. Now, if we're talking about casual, fun oriented pvp only, then it doesn't really matter whether it's home only, or the whole world:) So we practically agree, except for how we perceive battlegrounds. I'd like them to be competitive. I personally consider open world pvp the 'fun' type.
    moneda likes this.
  5. Rhsolyn

    Rhsolyn Cupcake

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    I think the idea I like so far is having cross-realm LFG and PVP, but only having it with 2-3 servers. So there's the server community and then a wider cross server community, but it's not all the servers ever. I don't know, that still might dilute things and have people still take advantage of the limited anonymity, but it seems like a fairly good way to compromise on paper at least.

    I dunno, I think WoW did that for their PVP but the PVP groups are like 5-10 servers, aren't they? And unfortunately back when I was playing WoW/PVPing I don't think I ever really saw the same person twice. If the devs can avoid that, I think Wildstar'll be in a pretty good place.
  6. moneda

    moneda Cupcake-About-Town

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    From the Jan 28th Uplink Analysis, which I can't remember ever reading so I must not have been tracking the #WSUplink hashtag at the time. :oops: An interesting read though, and relevant to this thread.
    Yakzan likes this.
  7. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    When they were first implemented it was 3-5 servers I believe.

    I don't understand the idea of having it cross realm with 2 or 3 servers but not all the servers... If it's to make the queues times less fast while maintaining a community, why not just have a bigger server where all 3 realms are on one server. Then you don't need cross realm anymore
    Yakzan likes this.
  8. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    this x a million.

    given that I am not an IT guy or a developer ... so this may be unfeasibile ... but

    High Pop Server = no transfers to, locked to new players, no transfers off. I realize this sucks for people who join late and want to play with their friends, but I just feel that server balance is too important to worry about this rare scenario. if it isn't rare .. then i guess we'd have to think of something else like allow transfers off, for short periods of time?

    Medium Pop servers = no transfers off, open to new players, can transfer to.

    Low pop servers = no transfers to, can transfer off, no new players. let it die. let it be low. let the soloers stay there if that is where they want to be.

    the only issue I see is what happens when all of the medium pop servers become high? you can't artificially inflate a low pop server. I think though if you selectively open 1 or 2 low pop servers to new players and transfers from other low pop servers .. that could help create new medium pop servers.

    another idea to go along with this would be to somehow allow players on high pop servers some kind of advantage when starting on a new server. more xp, heirloom gear (touchy subject i know), etc.

    While I have less problems with pvp battlegrounds being x-server, ideally I would only ever play with or against people on my server. to me this is a much more rewarding gaming environment. harder to code/balance? maybe ... but more enjoyable.

    I intend to do everything within my power to actually make a stand this time and not use x-server lfd, at all. I am going to make a great effort to dedicating myself to developing as many connections on my server as I can so that I do not ever have to use an x-server lfd tool. Quite simply I refuse to tank / heal for ninja-looting dps that pull mobs and cry when they die, and I refuse to dps.
  9. Vembumees

    Vembumees Cupcake-About-Town

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    LFD was good in WoW in tbc times when it was server only. It served its purpose perfectly (I played in a low pop RP-PvP server and could do dungeons without issues anytime).

    It went to <REDACTED> in wotlk and afterwards. No community, no need to do anything. Some of the average toxic stuff I do these days in LFD in all games, just because I don't give a <REDACTED> and will never see those players again. I never even once did none of those things before cross-server. I also do all the same things in every lobby game. Cross-server mechanics turn an mmorpg to a lobby mmo. There's no need to even reply to me saying I am a toxic ass douchebag, yep. That's because I am allowed and actually promoted to be one, otherwise I wouldn't.

    1) 1 wipe I leave, because I can requeue. If there is a timer I get myself kicked. Or find some other exploit or just do something else for 30 mins, afking 30 mins is better than spending 60 mins in a 10 min dungeon in a leecher afker group.
    2) I take everything I can and I don't give a <REDACTED>. If I can roll need I will roll need, I won't ever see those other guys again, so why should I give it to them? Plus, for instanece in TERA, I could sell the stuff I ninjad from dungeons, so damn, being a douche had massive perks.
    3) When I am in a premade group with 1-2 randoms, we most of the time kick the randoms before final boss to get all the loot. Just min-maxing. We won't see those players ever again anyways, so why should we care?
    4) When doing lfd groups solo, I mostly just intentionally don't put any effort into doing anything, because it's a public group, I don't need to impress anyone here and there are no concenquences for someone seeing me fail. I most of the time play poker in LFD groups whatever role I play.
    5) If someone doesn't perform to my expectations then I just instakick him, for instance if I see your heals are low and I notice you are using a nonefficient healing ability, I will kick you without a word. Because spending 20 mins to explain the mechanics of already a simple game to a tourist is simply a waste of time, if I would do that to every bad player in lobby games I would be teaching them until my grave.

    I could probably bring 10 more examples at least that you daily see in LFD's. Of course the biggest thing is trolling, but there's no need to even elaborate that one. Cross-server is toxic and it doesn't belong to an mmorpg. We will obviously have it in WildStar. And I will keep terrorizing the players, together with thousands of others. I really eagerly am waiting until this filth is removed from mmorpg's. LFD is not the issue. Cross-server is.
  10. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Neither LFD or cross-server is the issue. Lack of accountability is, which means people is. If you are one of the people behaving like a douchebag just because you can, then you are part of the issue.

    Trying to blame it on LFD and cross-server is then just a bad excuse to behave in a way you tell yourself you would otherwise not behave. Obviously it is how you prefer to behave, since it is your choice to do so.
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  11. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    People may inherently be douchebags, but a home-server only system suppresses that behavior for the overall betterment of the game.
  12. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    or even better, adding some sort of accountability to cross-server, so you have all the benefits on cross-server merged with the benefits of same server
  13. Vembumees

    Vembumees Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yes, exactly, people are the issue. And in mmorpg's, just like in life, people need to be stricted. In bigger cities there will always be more crime due to smaller concenquences or smaller chance of failure. Tourists will always cause more trouble than the inhabitants and do all kinds of <REDACTED> they would never do in their hometown. Etc. That's what cross-server players are - tourists. I blame it on it, because I never had to be a tourist in mmorpg's before. I played the role of a citizen. Until cross-server mechanics were implemented. And there is no other way to fix it. Banning people won't fix the issue. What else can you do in an mmorpg if the worst kind of punishment you can do is ineffective?

    Cross-server matchmaking = lobby matchmaking.
  14. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I actually think this is wildly inaccurate and labeling outside people no different than you as troublemakers is a pretty poor outlook. These people aren't inherently bad, if there was a system in place to reward good play or cooperative play in cross-realm dungeons I'm sure most problems would go away. The watered down sense of community some describe cross-realm LFD is a more complex issue and largely subjective I think.
    SiegaPlays likes this.
  15. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    That is some generalisation assuming all tourist behave like disrespectful jerks. As a matter of fact, I do not recognize that tendency from years of travelling. Just like my experience with a majority of LFD users. They do not automatically act like jerks. Some do, but by far not a majority of them.

    Would I wish that those who tend to do got grouped up with their own kind? Sure. It would be awesome, if part of a accountability system caused them to suffer their own ilk with a road of thorny bushes to walk before they get into touch with decent society again.

    However, if I have to choose between the cross-server half the queue time with the risk of meeting a jerk with a purpose every other group or a longer same server queue time with the same risk of meeting jerks and being able to malign anyone I dislike on server in generel chat, I would still prefer the benefits of cross server. Actually, the latter sounds abhorrent to me.
  16. Rex Smashington

    Rex Smashington Cupcake

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    Isn't Wildstar using a single shard system with multiple instances of each zone? So technically there are no servers to cross. The only thing that could be crossed is factions and that should never happen.

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