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DevSpeak: Ability Mechanics

Discussion in 'WildStar News' started by Ico, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. xerel

    xerel New Cupcake

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    OK, but how do you do it then? How do I use WASD for movement while simultaneously using say 1-6 for abilities? I'm sure the developers intentions aren't to alienate those without special peripherals, but I'm not seeing an efficient way to do it otherwise.

    For those saying to use a gamepad, how does that help? If you're using the dpad for movement and a thumbstick for aiming, are triggers going to be enough for all of your abilities?
  2. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    I've always used WASD while moving and casting (GW2 Mesmer! and the fight in...some instance in a WoW Cataclysm instance...where you hopped on camels and could move and cast!). You put the abilities that you don't use as often and/or have longer cooldowns on 6 to = and the ones you cast most often on 1 to 5. OR you keybind to QERFCXZV so that they're closer to your WASD. Also - hold Right mouse button to turn and both mouse buttons to move is usually the norm for games nowadays.
  3. xerel

    xerel New Cupcake

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    Right, but WoW and GW2 relied on a single quick button press to use your abilities, which had minimal impact on your movement. The devspeak they just posted detailed a couple ability mechanics, namely press and hold, and charge up, which require you to hold an ability button down for an extended time, which would greatly interfere with pressing your movement buttons at the same time. The only way I can see around it is to go with one of the 20 button mouses and move your abilities there.
  4. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I will give you 2 examples for gamepad setup:

    DC Universe Online would likely be closest to a Wildstar setup. You use the normal ABXY for jump, melee attack, ranged attack, and interact. You then have 8 buttons at the bottom of the screen for your superpowers, health soda, and trinket. You use left trigger + ABXY for abilities 1-4 and right trigger + ABXY for abilities 5-8.

    Final Fantasy 14 has multiple hotbars for use with the gamepad so it's a little more elaborate. You still use normal ABXY for jump, interact, stuff like that. You have a total of 16 buttons on your hotbar. You still use the triggers, but in addition to ABXY you can use the directional pad to get an extra 4 buttons per trigger.

    If you want to switch hotbars, you hold right bumper and press one of your 8 buttons (ABXY or dpad) to switch to that hotbar.

    In both games you're not using the dpad for movement. You use the left thumbstick for your normal character movement and the right thumbstick moves the camera.
  5. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    WASD should be perfectly fine in WildStar. Keyboard turning however might be a bigger issue. I actually use QWES to move, with Q and E acting as my strafe keys.
  6. Ugh

    Ugh Cupcake

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    Is it just me or does movement look more fluid now? I thought it looked good before but I damned near pissed mahself watching the mechanics/movement in this video
  7. xerel

    xerel New Cupcake

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    The problem is you only have 2 thumbs, and Wildstar requiring you to hold down abilites for an extended time ties one of them up, so now you can't aim while moving. The only way it would work fluidly on a gamepad is to offload one of those functions, presumably using abilities, to your fingers, I'm not sure that's reasonable.
  8. xerel

    xerel New Cupcake

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    The question is how do you use WASD for movement while at the same time using the same fingers to hold down ability buttons, not just quickly pressing them like in previous MMOs.
  9. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    There are ways to get around it. I'm able to hold down multiple keys while moving and even while constantly shifting my direction, although it is something that requires a bit of practice.

    I'm pretty sure if this becomes an issue though, Carbine will address it. Considering how they're taking a big break between beta phases, there's a good chance they'll check the system's efficiency. In which case, let's hope beta testers can test out these mechanics thoroughly. :)
  10. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    You get used to it. Practice makes perfect.

    Even if World of Warcraft does not need you to press down keys, you most of the times are spamming the rotational buttons before they come off the global cooldown, so that when you press the button, you are not that few milliseconds late on activating the ability.

    I do have rather compact keyboard, with a button layout that resembles a laptop keys. This gives me alot more buttons to keybind my abilities on.

    As example the buttons I use:

    F1 F2 F3 F4
    §1234567
    QERTYU
    FGHJ
    ZXCV
    +Mouse buttons
    And most of those buttons with Alt or Shift as modifiers.

    Doing something like Shift+G, then swiching in to 4 to hit an ability, after which pressing C to trinket out from CC takes fast fingers, and precision but it all comes with practice. Make your self good keybinds, really think it trough what do you want on your keyboard and where and stick with those keybinds. When you get the muscle memory for your buttons, keyboard and mouse becomes just extension of your hands.

    I always had it like this:

    W= Run forward
    S= backpedal
    A=Strafe Left
    D=Strafe right

    Q and E are movement abilities (Charge, Intercept, Deathgrip, Chains of Ice in WoW), as movement is everything. You need to have movement keys readily available for you to dodge attack, catch enemy etc etc.

    Buttons 12345 are abilities, button 6 is a short cooldown ability booster.

    RFTGVC are either short to medium cooldown abilities, or CC removers.

    Buttons further than that are either buffs, major DPS or Survivability cooldowns.

    Mouse wheel has abilities I absolutelly have to get off the exact moment I notice them.

    Mouse buttons are keybinds for less important abilities, but still important enough to keybind.


    [​IMG]

    You can add R F T G to keybinds if you feel comfy enough.



    Tldr: Just think trough your keybinds, continue using them even if you get frustrated at the start.. Eventually you will gain the muscle memory required to play perfect with your keybinds.

    Practive makes a perfect.
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  11. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    I play MMOs with gamepads. The LAS will actually help me a lot with it, as I don't have to sacrifice any on-the-fly utility skills and buffs on my controller, and be forced pop on over to my keyboard every once in a while.

    My advice is: always keep your mouse handy for clicking. The gamepad is awesome for combat and moving, but Tab-Targetting can get imprecise compared to just clicking, and most games do not have an interact button.
  12. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have 2 solutions for your situation.

    1 is to bind your hold ability to either left or right bumper.

    2 is to stop trying to overthink this for the moment and wait to see how Carbine has this mechanic planned. ;)
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  13. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    The Messiah has spoken.
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  14. Destrin

    Destrin Cupcake

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    Also do not forget, You have the option of changing some your button mashing mechanics in the options menu.

    I got this from the CBT2 Patch Notes:

    Charge/Release and Press/Hold ability mechanics have changed.
    • Charge and Release: On initial press, the ability will now charge up (without needing to be held), and on the second press of the same button will fire. If you wait until the ability has been fully charged, it will automatically fire after a few seconds.
    • Press and Hold: Press once to turn the ability on, press again to deactivate it.
    • Those who liked the old way these abilities worked can switch it back in the Combat Options menu.
  15. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Good find and, assuming these changes will remain going forward into CBT4 and beyond, this should alleviate many of the concerns people here have of these charging abilities.
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  16. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    I don't use my dpad for movement. I use the left analog stick. You know, my second analog stick that has always been used for that purpose?

    You'd be surprised at adjusting the sensitivity of analog sticks. You can turn a mess of "NO! I DIDN'T WANT TO GO THERE RAAAGGGGGHHHHH!" into a pretty smooth walking and strafing experience.

    My dpad is used to off-load functions such as the map, loot pick-ups, and consumables.

    The right analog stick is used to move the camera. It works pretty well so long as I bind both mouse-movement and right-click to it.

    As for aiming, yeah, it'll be less precise, but maybe that's the point of it all. I'm pretty sure though that by moving you can get that telegraph where you want it, or just aim ahead of time.

    For the buttons? It's actually better for me if I can button mash or press and release with my thumb--less painful and more engaging, honestly. I can also map skills to the triggers if they do need to be aimed, and simply have the bumpers be modifiers in case I want specific skills there.

    Gamepads will probably be useless for PvP, but I'm thinking it'll be just fine for PvE.

    As always, keep the keyboard and mouse handy for when the gamepad just won't cut it.
  17. xerel

    xerel New Cupcake

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    The difference is Wildstar is placing a much larger emphasis on movement than WoW does. Interrupting your spamming of ability keys to move isn't a huge deal, the impact is minor.

    It's not a matter of not having enough keybinds, it's an issue of reasonably expecting people to be rapidly switching between WASD keys as required, while at the same time holding down the 2 or 3 key. The word awkward comes to mind, and when the fluidity of your combat is one of your big selling points that's probably not what you want players' reaction to be.
  18. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    [​IMG]

    Made a fast job in paint to explain how I make my keybinds:

    Green: Movement keys
    Violet: Modifier buttons.
    Orange:Movement abilities.
    Red:Most used abilities (Rotation etc.)
    Pink: Good keybinds for abilities you use often, but have minor cooldowns.
    Blue: Good keybinds for medium cooldowns, buffs etc.

    Everything outside of those buttons should be considered "Bad" or "Challenging" keybinds, and I would suggest only keybinding long cooldowns and abilities you use once in a full moon on them.

    Edit: And yeah, that's the exact keyboard I use, Logitech K300. Cheap but effective little piece I have used for 2 maybe 3 years without problems.

    Edit2:

    My (somewhat complete) list of abilities and their keybinds in WOW:

  19. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    you start with 2 abilities and gain abilities after that as you level - i'm pretty sure that not ALL of your 9-10 LAS abilities are going to be press-hold, etc abilities, silly goose!
  20. APOLL0

    APOLL0 New Cupcake

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    On the controller debate (and especially to Xerel) I can't recommend a keypad highly enough to anyone who struggles with trad MMO controls. I have a Logitech one with a thumb stick for forward/backward and strafe, and use my mouse to look. That leaves all 4 fingers of my left hand free to hit key binds including two modifiers, plus I use a mouse with a few extra bound buttons as well.
    I used to be a 'clicker' and this is the only way I could convert.

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