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End Game & Raiding

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Jinxis

    Jinxis New Cupcake

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    So we all know from various interviews and developer journals that the end game of WildStar is taking a more vanilla WoW approach in terms of design; 20 mans, 40 mans, unique encounters, lack of LFR, etc. Which isn't really a surprise at all considering the development team.

    That being said, what are you looking to get out of the end game content for WildStar? Are you happy with the direction they appear to be going?

    Personally, I am very happy with the direction that they appear to be going in regards to end game raiding. I very much so miss the days of actual raiding communities outside of the guild you are currently in. I miss the days where players and guilds were, at least somewhat, accountable for their actions and gained a reputation on a server, good or bad. With seemingly challenging fights, fairly large scale battles and no LFR to fall back on, it looks like WildStar might finally gain the end game raiding community that recent MMO's have been severely lacking.
  2. Mike Hatley

    Mike Hatley Cupcake

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    They have yet to reveal the solo path and what exactly they are doing in relation to arena and warplots.
  3. Vossler

    Vossler Cupcake

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    I hated 40man raids... But I'll do them all day!!!
    Vanilla and BC were the most fun I ever had raiding and I hope this can bring me back to that.
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  4. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Aye it's a love/hate relationship, but looking at my uncle and aunt they can last for ever! ;)
  5. Crow

    Crow Cupcake

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    I've done quite a few 40-man raids in my time but...

    Karazhan will always have a special place in my heart. :)
  6. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    I love the direction they're taking with end-game. They are positioned to scoop up the millions of players who left other games that got watered down and shallow over the years.

    My only fear is that they might listen to feedback too much and compromise the standard they've set.
    Rai and Alverad like this.
  7. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    /bestfriendhug
    Me too!
  8. Seagrey

    Seagrey Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have only done a few...and want to do more.
  9. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    I always hated, and still hate 40 raids. And out of 20 or 40 I'd definetely pick 20 if rewards are same (which is how it should be).

    40 mans were always pain in ass to gather together and lead compared to other compositions. But it's alright, any raid is hard to lead. What I do like about smaller raids - less people means you can't have mistakes. In Vanilla days out of 40 raiders around 7-10 were considered inevitable casualties most of time. In 25 man it was 2-3. In 10 people compoisition - none; you can't loose a single person if it's not going to happen due to boss mechanics.

    Karazhan were 10 raid, a first non 40man, and it was mind blowing how much responsibility it dropped on each Raider, instead of Raid as a whole. I'd rather stick with 19, but more creative, rather than lead an unpredictable horde.

    Oh, almost forgot: I have a fear that Carbine will screw up in spectacular way with their "random skills on bosses". There is a catch to that design - you may make it a mechanic on it's own and forget to add actual mechanics; those making bosses unique and giving them personality. I never saw nothing but legs of Curator, but I still can characterize that boss by his abilities. I never had a close look at that-mage-dude-with-spell-which-wipes-entire-raid-if-anyone-moves, but still will know it's him by his unique mechanics.

    It is quite possible to absolutely destroy what defines bosses if they focus on making too much random stuff instead of designing beatiful (from a tactical point of view) encounters with some variables.
    Malorak and Naunet like this.
  10. CRB_Gortok

    CRB_Gortok Carbine Econ Designer

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    I would like to hear your reasoning on this.
  11. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    The flip-side of that thought is that in 40 man, there is the potential to have a more forgiving raid, so you can still bring your fun-but-talentless friend. The stricter requirements of 10 man raiding meant you had to focus on skill more than personality.

    But it all depends on how they build their raids. I expect them to be completely different to what we're used to. With the experience on the team, I can't see them making a game with 40 man raids and forgetting all the things that we didn't like about them.

    And re: your comment about 20 man and 40 man rewards being the same, I strongly disagree. Human nature is such that we choose the easiest path to a reward. Making them give equal rewards would disincentivize 40 man raids.
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  12. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    well, i'm thinking the rewards won't be the same. The 20mans are step-up raids to 40mans. Also, if you do a 40man raid and a 20man raid the same day, they're not going to be the same instance. different areas, different bosses, different lootz.
  13. Konoko

    Konoko Cupcake-About-Town

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    I never really could get into end game raiding. I found 4 hours doing something that was ruined by one or 2 people consistently making the same types of mistakes infuriating. That along with the little boys hitting on any girl that showed up in Vent or TS I found also annoying. I'm quite a bit older so listening to 20 or so people between the ages of say 15-25 in a 40 man raid was a bit too much for me to take! LoL I prefer to keep my groups of people within Vent much smaller and more focus'd. I liked to make those situations more based on my close friends who have very similar interests as I myself have. I'm very picky with whom I choose to spend any length of time with.

    (koni is very .. shall we say.. selective (trying to not say bit**y!))

    Cheers
    ~ Koni
  14. AnotherJaggens

    AnotherJaggens Cupcake-About-Town

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    Let me rephrase first: same rewards not in quantity, but in quality. Of course 40 people killing 40 man version do need to get twice amount that 20 man would get. Just so distribution per capita were at same level.

    If that statement still needs a reasoning:

    As I said - 40 mans are pain to lead because of how much people there are, but, at the same time, you have some space to sacrifice those guys if you can't avoid it. Inevitable casualties, for greater good.

    On other hand 20 man would be much easier to organise, but every death in early or middle phase will cripple your raid and have great chance to result in failure.

    It's more of trade between what headache you prefer most in my opinion: gathering and organizing, or patience to work thru every mistake and efficiency optimization.
  15. crowsong

    crowsong Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think 40 mans should always be split up into parts where individual 5-10 man groups do different objectives and all meet up for the boss.... Some did this, but alot of them were just zerging a specific group of mobs untill you were done...
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  16. plic70

    plic70 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I liked the 40 man raids because they helped nail home the scope of what you were doing. They were hard, long and like everyone else has said gave you that love/hate feeling. Karazhan(my fav as well) was the best non-40 man raid WOW ever did. It had an actual feel and vibe to it. It wasn't a straight corridor run(BOT, BWD, TK etc.) While not being a full 40 man it still provided a good enough challenge because each boss brought something new to the table.

    For 40-mans it is a toss up between AQ and Naxx for me, AQ simply because C'thuun was an awesome end boss and the massive server wide event to open the gates. Naxx is up there because of the saftey dance, 4 Horsemen, and Kel.

    I can't wait to see how 40 man content will run in Wildstar with the movement system....Goobers
  17. Calsic

    Calsic Cupcake-About-Town

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    For me, the biggest challenge in a new MMO is finding the right guild. I was lucky in WoW and found a group of adults, who knew their class and knew to shut-up in vent after the pull. Efficient and fun. It's really tough to find that.
  18. Konoko

    Konoko Cupcake-About-Town

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    Exactly but that is tough to find. I've run guilds before and been class leaders in guilds. I've been the puller for MC runs and created strategies for BC Raid content when the Xpac just came out and after all of that I've kind of moved into the background and just focus'd on the things I want to accomplish within these games. Which is to have fun get lost in another world and be a very proficient and skilled PvP'er.
  19. Kaewynn

    Kaewynn Cupcake

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    I can not wait for the return of 40-man raids! I am very happy with this direction as well. Everything I did in Vanilla WoW was probably the most fun I've ever had in my MMO history.

    Dare I say I even miss DKP? (Don't shoot the poster :p)
    Scrapple, Lethality and ruff_ethereal like this.
  20. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    If rewards were the same, 20 man raids are much easier logistic wise to arrange and control. You dont have to worry about getting 40 skilled folks for tough mechanics and just get 20 . Then scheduling, conflicts etc. and drama between 20 is way smaller then 40. Less dkp to keep track off and folks waiting on the benches.

    Id pick 20 mans as well if the rewards were the same even if the drop rate is lower for items. Just less of a headache.

    The content could be harder in 20 mans but if not significantly so , that wouldnt deter me.

    Im honestly not sure how to make 40 mans more appealing than a 20 man version of the same raid.
    Cant be different loot tables, because if the 20 man has one item that min maxers figure out is better than anything in 40 man raids, then you have them running both. It could be different item levels, with 40 mans having a higher budget.
    The only thing I can think of for sure that would turn out really well is having the 40 man version of a raid have more optional bosses. So if a 20 man has 5 bosses, if there is a 40 man version of the same raid, it has 8 bosses.
    You can add more mechanics etc to a 40 man version of the boss, but the big draw would be the more bosses.

    Thats what would get me into 40 man raiding - the extra content.

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