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End Game & Raiding

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jinxis, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    You ever tried to look individually at 40 different raid frames and recounts at once? It takes up a huge portion of the screen if you want to see the actual name of the people.
  2. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is why i have always preferred running ACT on a second screen as opposed to an in game meter. But most of the time you don't want to bother yourself with dps numbers during a fight anyways. Its much beter used to analyse the fight after you have already wiped, in between pulls.
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  3. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Yah, exactly, but like I said, very difficult to do in real time during the fight. Not saying you can't do it with proper organization, but it does rely on players that are more self sufficient, instead of those who need to be babied into a win. I suppose this is what you always want in a raider, but it weeds them out quicker. I'd love to hear your thoughts on organization of the raid group for best results with the massive amount of people.
  4. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Its honestly hard for me to know exactly how 40 man raiding will turn out, seeing as the biggest content I've done has been 24mans. In rift having one officer from each of the 4 classes and then a GM worked really well. I think that the only bad raiders are those that think they cant improve. Sooner or later there is going to be something you are doing wrong or could improve on. The best raids are those that can accept criticism (including the officers) and act on it quickly. In other words, its fine to do something wrong, in fact it doesn't really hurt progression to do something wrong. Its when you are told your error and continue to make the same mistakes over the course of a night/week that raids start having problems.

    But again, i don't think second to second feedback is necessary for any size raid or group content. If you wipe, then you make adjustments.
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  5. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    What's the best way to go about finding those players? I found after trying to find raiders in WoW this previous expansion, everyone lies about their skills, abilities, ilvl, etc. so it forces raid leaders to search for unreasonably achieved players. Is this just due to an unhealthy community and server?
  6. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Some servers undoubtedly have more qualified players just due to the random nature of things. However all servers have their share of people who want to join a guild without the prerequisite gear or skills for whatever raid you are doing. A good interview/trial period is the best gatekeeper for your guild.

    Gear is in most games is just a matter of inspecting someone, which obviously wouldn't take very long. Depending on how good you are at judging a persons character, just talking to applicants in vent for 15 minutes is enough to tell if someone is a <REDACTED>.

    Beyond this, most guilds i have run or been a part of have had a 2-4 week trial period. Bring applicants along to content you already have on farm, and you can see how they handle playing with your raid without any chance of delaying progression on new bosses. If they have low dps/hps/threat numbers, talk to them. Do they have the right skill/talent builds? If not, are they open to change? Are they failing mechanics? If so, do they not understand the fights, or are they too focused on dpsing to move out of the fire.

    Equipped with all of this knowledge, you and your officers need to decide if the new member will be a good addition to your guild. If the answer is no, don't be afraid to reject people. Its a much better alternative to letting them constantly be at odds with your guildmates.

    TLDR: It usually doesn't take long, for people who are arrogant or only care about loot to show their true colors.
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  7. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Thank you very much for the insight.
  8. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    Application, trial periods where initiates can earn point in your dkp or similar system but not spend it unless no one else needs it, having class leaders pay attention to the recruit ( or role leaders ) . Taking them on hard 5 mans to see how they cope in a more personal setting. D they come prepared etc.

    It's a lot of work being a recruiter for a guild and there's lots of it the bigger the raid.
  9. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    Lusciifi has said pretty much everything. Testing people is the only way to make sure they re the good one for your Guild/Warplot. As a matter of fact, i never had the opportunity to run tests like that but i should be a terrible and strict supervisor :D I can't conceive a MMO player, and even more when it comes to PvE, that doesn't seek the ultimate optimization. I remember the times when my soon-to-be guildmates were making huge PU raids and me coming with my little blue stuff constantly being in the top 5 dps over way more geared people, and i always thought " How can these people come to raid and decently not try to improve their dps/tanking/healing ". I guess i m kind of a psycho when it comes to that :D
  10. SituationSoap

    SituationSoap Cupcake-About-Town

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    The mistake that you seem to be making is a common one. You're trying to recruit a player for a raid. You're not recruiting a player for a raid, you're recruiting a player to be a raider, and here's the difference: Players recruited to run raids need gear and knowledge of the fights, which can be demonstrated with inspections and achievements. Raiders, on the other hand, need to know how to get the most out of their class, push their limits and most importantly, adapt to new situations. There's no achievement for adaptation, there's no piece of gear that shows that someone's willing to keep up to date on their class.

    How do you find those people? You recruit constantly. Always be looking for new players. You don't want to fill up your guild with people who will never have a shot, but any decent guild master has a pretty good clue who their worst 5-10 players are at any given moment, and you should be constantly striving to replace them. After a while, you'll get to a point where you don't want to replace anyone any more, and that's ok; you'll still want to remain on the recruitment train, because turnover is a part of being a raid leader, but you won't constantly be needing to churn the bottom.

    TL;DR: Always recruit, evaluate everyone in your raid, constantly be kicking the bottom 10-20% and replacing them with people who are better.
  11. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Thanks again for more insight, it's good to know if I decide to start up a group.
  12. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Depends on the guild. I wouldn't recommend this if you are trying to be somewhat casual. Sure replace toxic players, but the rest depends on the atmosphere of the guild. When you start a raid guild you should always have a goal, do you want to be world first? server first? see all the content? just raid? If you are playing with a fun group of people and don't mind where your guild is on progression just keep the people you already have.
  13. SituationSoap

    SituationSoap Cupcake-About-Town

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    Obviously you need to define the identity of your guild. But if you want to run a raid guild, what I posted is the best way to make sure that you're constantly getting better.
  14. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    Somewhat harsh.

    Alternative possibly requires more effort but is way more fun: recruite, evaluate, help to get better, and most of all, don't forget to enjoy;)
    Take a player on a test run, or two before you commit. Even a quick 5 men will tell you more about the person's skill and attitude then a half an hour chat ;)

    But yes, recruiting in WoW, since about mid Cata is a nightmare on many servers.
  15. SituationSoap

    SituationSoap Cupcake-About-Town

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    Er, what you've suggested (run a 5 man) is essentially the same as what I suggested, except my suggestion doesn't involve me wasting time in five mans I don't need. I'm going to need 40 players for a raid, I might as well be evaluating the people in my raid while I'm doing it.
  16. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I actually don't mind it at all, though the latter doesn't generally happen to me because I don't PUG raids (and honestly, no one should go into a raid PUG with the expectation that they'll down bosses - it's a random group of people, not a trained raiding team). Those same two people screwing up will learn eventually, even if I have to get creative about instructing them (e.g. forcing people to practice position timing without the boss for a bit), and they will be much more motivated to improve knowing they are the reason the wipes keep happening, as long as you're encouraging at the same time.
  17. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    My point was just there more then one type of raid guild, but im arguing semantics so ill shut up now.
  18. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    I was refering to you 'rotation' of players matey. Your 'recruit, evaluate, kick' cycle until you hit the sweet spot is a bit too harsh for my taste, that's all. We've had a succesful raiding guild for many years without resorting to such measures. It takes longer, but it's way more satisfying to see people improve, then just filter and pick the best of the best, of which btw, there is usually a limited amount anyhow. People also tend to be more loyal when treated like humans. For each their own though.

    On another note, games are by definition, a waste of time ;) And when I waste mine, I opt to chill and enjoy. Running a 5 men will render similar results, without potentially, negatively affecting a big number of other people, if the person happens to be a burden, more then an asset or simply a skilled dickhead.
    But if you look closely, I said 'even running a 5 men'. You do what is convinient for you, at a particular time.

    Anyhow, that was in response to the other gentlemen's question, expanding on what you suggested. Especially considering that you may find yourself in need of recruits, before you gather a team, that allows you to even set foot in a raid.
  19. Khrusky

    Khrusky Cupcake

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    I would tend to disagree. I suppose it does depend on what one's goal in life is, but if happiness is included somewhere in there then games can certainly be a very productive option.
  20. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    Fun, definitely, productive, how?

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