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Engineer: DPS Spec

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by coreymj78, Jan 9, 2014.

  1. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok I feel like I've finally decided to go with Engineer. Here's my final concern.

    The engineer can go DPS, but in the Twitch stream below, the devs explain that while the Engineer can spec for DPS (as opposed to tank), their DPS will still be gimped when comparing with a Spellslinger or Medic, for example. The reason given was because of the fact that as an Engineer, you are still more "tanky" compared to Slinger or Medic so your DPS is less. But since the purpose of going DPS with the Engineer is to DPS, then shouldn't you be able to do it well? I mean, who wants to be gimped? It's almost like they are saying "Yes, you can be less of a tank and more of a DPS, but not much." I haven't played yet, but just listening to how the devs describe it kind of worries me.

    http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/c/3402343
  2. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    i for one hope its within 5% variance. no solid info yet though.
  3. Satarn

    Satarn Cupcake-About-Town

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    While your damage per hit may be smaller, you must consider that Engineers will probably have the highest uptime on bosses of all classes. Not only will they have less telegraphs to worry about due to being ranged, but also higher mitigation will allow them to take some to the face, letting them ignore even more than Esper and Spellslinger.
  4. Hundmetall

    Hundmetall New Cupcake

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    Being able to take more damage means moving less and using abilities more and having a dps bot means they will be performing damage without you having to push any buttons. One thing I am hoping for in this game though is a move away from the mentality of unless you top the dps chart you are not doing a good job. As long as the boss goes down and everyone is alive then a good job was done imo.
  5. Caedis

    Caedis New Cupcake

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    Although a logical sentiment, it probably won't happen. It's just how MMOs usually go...people want to compare epeens and the easiest way to quantify that is by a DPS meter. Hopefully you can find a guild that doesn't put that much emphasis on meters so you can be more shielded from the mentality, but I'm sure you'll see it whenever you PuG.
  6. Lookeba

    Lookeba Cupcake

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    So far out of all of the classes I've tried out the Engineer is my favorite to play. I'm just worried that the majority of folks will think the same way and I'll just be considered the FOtM player and scoffed at. I like the idea of being able to tank although I have no desire to tank anything other than small group content.

    Do you think this is a possibility or should I just ignore that and play what I enjoy to play regardless of what groups will say?
  7. Anzriel

    Anzriel New Cupcake

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    You should always play how you like, after all Wildstar is a game and games should be fun.(Obvious I know, but so many people seems to forget this)

    As for OP I don't think it's a massive difference in damage by the looks of things but remember you have more mitigation which would mean being able to stay alive, and last I checked you can't dps if you're dead. Also without having to dance around dodging attacks you can eat some of them. So maybe not as high burst, but more sustained damage?
  8. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    While I agree it shouldn't be a deciding factor as to whether you get invited to the group or not, I do feel that it's only natural for people to want to do good DPS. People need to know they are doing a good job. But I also see the points made about Engy vs. Slinger DPS and I agree. After thinking about it, more uptime on bosses might just even out the DPS difference, since it would be more sustained DPS instead of bursty. Makes sense.
  9. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    It seems like everyone's really upset about the entire "Heavy armor = Less Damage, Light Armor = More Damage" thing.

    Think of it this way as an alternative: Engineer has high resistance and does just as much damage. Spellslinger has less resistance and does just as much damage. The spell slinger is better at moving and dodging than the engineer who takes a speed movement debuff on using abilities. The engineer can elect to stand there and take the hits. In this formula, the engineer has the advantage of just as much damage and still gets more resistance. The Engineer now wins in DPS and Resistance.

    What's currently being used: Engineer has high resistance, but lower damage. Spellslinger has low resistance, but higher damage. High resistance offsets the speed penalty allowing the engineer to take a telegraph or two. Thus could get a full charge blast off. The spellslinger must dodge, interrupting their charge. Yet it's compensated by having higher damage. Everyone points out that this trait is what will balance the DPS between the two. The lighter armor you wear, the more damage you will do.

    Personally, I like the idea of lighter armor is more damage. I'm probably a little bias in my opinion though as I want to play an Esper. Yet I'm not going to be totally blind to the other opinion.

    For example, on a good team the tank should be able to direct certain telegraphs away from light armor. Such as cone or line attacks. That reduces the number of telegraphs a spellslinger has to dodge and increases their DPS. On teams with a good tank, the Spellslinger (And Esper for that matter) would have the advantage. Large, AoE circular telegraphs and roaming telegraphs we've seen in dungeons will still require movement. Movement is a spellslinger's specialty. The engineer could find themselves in trouble if their attacks slow them too much.

    That being said, I'm not really a fan of the idea that an engineer's attacks will debuff their movement speed. The warrior, who's also clad in heavy armor, has no such debuff. Yet they need their speed as they are largely a melee class. It seems that the movement debuff was tacked onto the Engineer specifically because of their role as ranged tanks. If you can't actually move as fast, the concept of 'range' goes away pretty quickly.

    So in short, I like: Lighter armor is more damage

    I dislike: Engineer's slowing down
    Lookeba likes this.
  10. Caedis

    Caedis New Cupcake

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    I'm actually totally cool with "heavy armor = less DPS." If it wasn't that way you'd just be inviting the nerf bat to smack you in the face.

    Strictly in regards to PvE, the way it is now allows for light armored DPS to show their skill by having good boss uptime without standing in bad and heavy armor DPS can show their skill by being able to push their abilities to do good DPS.
  11. Satarn

    Satarn Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's not only the tanking(in which it would be probably both overpowered and incredibly annoying for the DDs), but also PvP. Fully mobile, ranged plate class with tanky health and pets? It would be horrible to fight them for both other ranged and melee.
  12. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    An easy way to avoid this would be to develop content that will wipe you if DPS is all your group worries about. Hopefully, this is what Carbine is trying to do. I mean, telegraphs are already a small example of content that will wipe you if the your trying your damnedest to get to #1.
  13. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    i wish i could get a crb to answer if it will be within a certain threshold of each other in dps.
  14. Feraki

    Feraki New Cupcake

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    If you watch any of ZybakTV's Engineer PvP play you'll see that the Engineer isn't really gimped by the higher resistances=less dps mentality. The way Zybak talks about it(and shows) is that the Engineer actually has really good sustain damage but lacks the high burst potential of the other classes such as the Esper or Spellslinger.

    So in short, I wouldn't be worried about the damage out put of the engineer. Granted NDA only allows up to level 15 content so scaling could change things. However I don't think that it will be so drastic as to make the Engineer DPS path unviable.

    Here is a link to his Engineer first impressions video:
  15. Mortec

    Mortec New Cupcake

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    Maybe it's just me, but I think it is - and should be, fairly obvious, that heavier armor = lower DPS. Less risk kinda thing.

    Also, as others have pointed out, results over time might turn out fairly even due to sustain / burst - which, imho, is also how it should be.
  16. Caedis

    Caedis New Cupcake

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    I'm guessing those numbers are subject to change for a long while so they can't really say how close they are right now. I'm sure they have an ideal standard deviation between the classes DPS, when taking armor/mobility/utility into account. Like with all MMOs you will have a trade off (as was discussed above). Less defense = more offense, and vice versa.
  17. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    this is true but it ends up the lighter armor also has skills to negate their lack of heavier armor so it doesnt matter in pve and some in pvp too.
  18. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    just be glad you already know what you are playing as, dont worry about balance wise, since changes will be made, nerfs/buffs will happen, maybe the engineer wont bring as much damage to a raid as the other classes but he might bring smoething else, also i doubt that the gap in damage will be big enough to make people not want you in the raid,

    mean while i still have not made my mind if i will tank as a stalker or as a eng, i will most likely follow the eng path, but i also want to be viable on PvP so i will wait for that livestream on sat
  19. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Due to new circumstances I am not going to discuss, I am no longer concerned with Engineer DPS being supposedly gimped. ;)
  20. Tidezen

    Tidezen Cupcake

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    I appreciated DPS meters waaay back in the day when they were just a tool and not a contest. But that was a long time ago.

    From a practical perspective, it makes more sense to do something like:

    ((damage done) - (damage taken))/(fight length) = effective dps

    Obviously you could throw things into that equation like healing done, damage mitigated, etc. I'm just using a simplified example. Because a dpser's real job is as much about understanding mechanics of the fight, responding to them, and staying alive, as much as it is dpsing.

    I guess I'm just saying the overall value of a dpser has a lot to do with other factors besides the raw dps number. There are of course certain fights where ONLY dps matters, but that's pretty uncommon nowadays.

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