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Engineer with pet= legit?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Dominic0985, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. Dominic0985

    Dominic0985 New Cupcake

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    hello guys,

    i know that engineer can play with or without bots ,and its not a absolute pet class but i was wondering if picking a pet skill is legit
    1)pve (exping)
    2)pvp
    3) raiding

    should i spend my skill slot picking up the dps (and tank for exp) pets or its a waste of dps?

    and one more question
    engineer no pet VS spellslinger DPS what your opinion?
    1)pvp
    2)raid

    *just to mention that i have decided to roll an engineer but i ask just out of curiosity*
  2. Taher

    Taher Cupcake

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    1. Don't know what you mean by "legit".
    2. I highly doubt that it's a waste of dps by spending your skill slots on the bots.
    3. I'm sure that Spellslinger does more dps than an Engineer with no bots for many reasons. This includes the fact that Engineers wear Heavy armour while Slingers wear Light armour, and Engineer is based around utilizing their bots, so without one can result in a loss of dps. But, obviously it all matters around skill, so if a good Engineer faces off against a crappy Slinger, i'm pretty sure the Engi will win.
    If you're planning on picking either of the two, pick the one you most prefer and enjoy, rather than the one which does "most dps".
  3. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm assuming by 'legit,' he means "Carbine better not be making the same fricken mistake as ArenaNet." I'm not sure if you played Guild Wars 2, but they were advertising the engineer class as being able to implement turrets as a viable means of gameplay, which turned out to be a huge lie. That is, they were barely usable in any large-scale combat due to their low health and inability to avoid AoE. Some people tried turret builds in small-scale PvP, but it was frankly way too much of a hassle for little reward compared to other builds.

    However, Carbine seems to be at least trying to avoid all of those mistakes. Firstly, it's the first game so far where an engineer's "turrets" actually follow him or her around. In Guild Wars 2, Warhammer Online, and even League of Legends (I'm looking at you, Heimy), the engineers always rely on being stationary, when no one at the development meetings thought, "Hey what if he slapped wheels on the turrets so he didn't have to stand there like a moron?" Team Fortress 2 is an exception, considering the much different way that the game is played.

    Secondly, at least in the live stream, the devs were attempting to reassure those concerned with the bots' vitality, in that the penalty for losing a bot isn't that great. If your bot dies, it's only a 15 second cooldown. Generally, your abilities have cooldowns around 10 to 12 seconds. That says to me that the longer you can keep your pets alive in a fight, the more you'll be rewarded. That is, if your annihilation bot happens to deal close to the damage of what Unstable Anomoly would have dealt for the duration of its cooldown, then it was worth equipping it, and any uptime your bot has after that is gravy. In Guild Wars 2, however, your turrets - with their inability to scale with your gear and lack of movement - had cooldowns ranging from 30 seconds to a full minute. I sincerely doubt Carbine would let your bot abilities collect dust. Since the bots are being treated just like any other ability at your disposal, it's safe to say that they'll be scaling with your stats so the damage that they bring will never be obsolete.

    Unfortunately, this is also the reason that the Engineer isn't necessarily "based around utilizing their bots," at least according to Carbine. If this were the case, then a botless engineer would not be seen. It has been said that the bot abilities will have advantages and disadvantages just like any other ability that you can equip on your bar. Engineer bots are not their innate, they are abilities just like any other that you would have equipped. They can't theoretically surpass than any other ability too drastically, since that would be almost like giving the engineer extra action slots.

    This is where the engineer disappoints me. I'm definitely going to be an engineer, but without the bots, the engineer just looks like a SWTOR commando (which is another class I enjoyed, but it was not an engineer). Those four abilities are basically the only thing tying the class to its name, in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I love the launcher, but I was also hoping for some other abilities that showed off the engineer as being more than a spellslinger with a two-hander.
    zekkdarklighter, Destian and Sapien like this.
  4. eharper256

    eharper256 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Honestly my main beef with the Engi so far is actually the fact that they hyped up the fact that their hidden class heals shields, but so far as I can see, only the Repair bots boost ability and Disruptive Module do so at all.

    But gods, don't remind me of the turrets in GW2. I was glad I rolled an Engi alt there rather than my main and got to hear how bad turrets were before I got them. Rocket Turret was sort of tolerable, but that was it.
  5. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    This. I guess engineers also have Volatile Injection, but it's only a situational self-shield regen, and only if you spec it to tier 8. Regardless, I'm still disappointed since there are other classes that can regen a group's shields just as well, when Carbine said in the live stream that it was something unique to the engineer.

    And yeah, my main was an engineer and you cannot fathom my disappointment when I hit level 79 and noticed that my rifle turret's damage tooltip was not changing when I switched gear. Hours of gameplay only to discover that the one ability I was looking forward to using was garbage.
  6. mmimzie

    mmimzie New Cupcake

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    Alot of the streamers have said something to the feeling of, "You'll only have a few damage, healer, and/or threat abilities, from there you'll load up your bar with more utility based slots" They said this mostly due to the GCD nature and how the abilities set up (not very many set and forget dots for example). The devs also said they dont really want you to have a rotation, they want you more focus on positioning yourself and your skills to max damage (through hitting and surviving). So odds are you'll only have 2-4 damage abilities and the rest will be utility cool downs. I think this help favor the bots because they always add dps to any build due to not taking GCD and because they are like near constant dots.

    On the shield. I would like the engineer to be abit more shield focus as it would make since. Giving them thier own tank style. Though self healing is kind of a weak form of tanking, because your scaling against your gear and not the content. This always gives mitigation tanks an edge. It seems in this game they want to sort of even out all the tanks to do a little self heals and a little mitigation.
  7. filanwizard

    filanwizard Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yea the turrets made me start to dislike my engineer. NPC AI was messed up so NPCs always rushed turrets. damage was lacking from them too.
  8. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was told that the Engy was slowed down by 30% when using ranged abilities, so this means that it is not just a Slinger with a two-hander. If they get panalized for using ranged skills, then that means they must be a melee class first and foremost? I'm not sure about this so I guess I'm asking if anyone else has any info on this. Maybe they are more like a medium ranged / semi-melee class which opperates more around tricky tech skills and weapons. It could be they are more like a hybrid ranged/melee class. I just don't know.
  9. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    Woohoo...
    They get penalized for moving and firing; yes that makes them less mobile than other ranged classes, but it doesn't exactly add a lot of versatility. Sure, you aren't going to be playing an engineer the same as a spellslinger, but this isn't Super Smash Brothers; I want some RPG boundaries between these classes shown through their abilities aside from different colors and telegraph sizes. And what tricky tech skills do they have? You can't just give something a "techy" name and say it's a tech skill. Sure, there's a couple that fit the bill, but there's quite a few abilities, especially in the offense tree, where if you renamed them and slapped them on another class, you wouldn't bat an eyelash.
  10. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, I just don't know, I guess we shall see. :)
  11. Arkavien

    Arkavien Cupcake

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    So BESIDES the bot abilities which for some reason aren't enough for you to justify the class name...4 out of 30 skills...

    There is also Recursive Matrix which puts up a big "techy" looking dome, Personal Defense Unit which places a gadget on the ground that can be picked up for a defensive boost, Energy Auger and Disruptive Module launch "techy" gadgety things out of the front of their launcher not to mention our Innate puts us in a MECH SUIT.

    That seems like quite a few skills that tie us to our name

    And as far as renaming skills and slapping them on another class without batting an eye....you could do that with TONS of abilities of every class except maybe esper. Spellslinger charge shot switched to arm cannon blast and BOOM new warrior shot. Heck half the warrior abilities wouldn't even need name changes to go to stalker and vice versa.
  12. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    Firstly, "Sure, there's a couple that fit the bill..." Secondly, 4 out of 30 should not be a satisfactory percentage. Thirdly, energy augur is just an example of picking just a different color and different telegraph because that's all it is. What does energy augur do other than create a field? What class can't do that? I'm not saying every single ability has to be unique to the class, but the class has to be unique somehow. And by ''unique,'' I mean if you don't have the utility of class X, then you're going to have some trouble.

    Lastly, the fact that you can say this about other classes is exactly my point. I'm not just concerned with the engineer; I was only using it as an example. I don't want the engineer to just throw out engineery-looking things. I want them to bring something to the table that only engineers can bring, and this goes for the other classes as well; I wan't espers to bring their own unique utility other than different telegraphs. In actuality, I think the engineer got lucky with its pets; at least that's something differentiating it from other classes.
  13. Arkavien

    Arkavien Cupcake

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    Ok well you are moving the goalposts now, you said "where are the tricky tech skills" and talked about changing spell names to fit other classes...and now you say colors too. I can't think of a single game ever where you couldn't change the animation, name AND effected area of an ability and make it fit another class in the game. That's what abilities ARE...a combination of those things...I am clearly misunderstanding you, unless you are just saying that unless every class brings X mandatory for grouping buffs/abilities they just all feel like copies of each other
  14. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually yes, that is what I'm saying. Not necessarily buffs, but utility. If you can bring any class to come DPS, then why even bother giving us a choice? You can say, "Well you play what you want to play and what fits your playstyle." Okay, well I have that choice in Team Fortress 2 as well. There need to be more roles than just tank, heals, and dps, if only for the sake of the class's depth.
  15. Arkavien

    Arkavien Cupcake

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    Ok, we are on the same page now :)

    I guess the playstyle differences and "feel" of the classes is enough for me as long as all the classes are viable in their respective roles I don't need them to bring anything completely unique, besides doing that also makes you run the risk of being benched because "we need more Spellslingers for this boss due to their X" and <REDACTED> like that. It's a difficult balancing challenge that I hope Carbine is up for
  16. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, good. I want people to get benched. Hell, I want myself to get benched. I want to be in a raid when I am needed, not just whenever I feel like it. And it isn't only about needing their utility. I don't want to be brought into a raid just because I'm an engineer. I want to be brought into the raid because I'm that engineer. It doesn't necessarily mean that the raid is going to bring any garbage spellslinger just for their utility; they still have to carry their weight.
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  17. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Spoken like a true hard core raider.
  18. Koriel

    Koriel New Cupcake

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    Word. /Agree

    Going off topic.... this has gone from "Engineers with/without pet a viable choice?" to raiding philosophies. i.e. "IamPro epeen +10"
  19. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, that really wasn't intended. Short of maybe the last 2 posts, this was entirely about the engineer. And class homogenization is directly connected to the main topic; whether or not bot builds will remain a viable option throughout the game. And since - as far as we've seen - bot builds don't really bring anything more to the table than a botless build (at least for any DPS builds; perhaps they will allow for more utility for PvP/tanking), engineers will be going for the higher DPS option. If that doesn't include the bots, then bye-bye bots. If they turn into a huge dps loss, you will not be allowed to play with them.

    I mean, again, what do we actually know about how it will turn out? What we do know is that when classes get more homogenized, and each build brings nothing more to the table than the other, then these things can definitely happen (Guild Wars 2).
  20. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    You can run two bots at once, I recommend Arty and Bruiser for soloing as dps (strangely enough they're the first two you get).

    The other two bots don't come in till later unfortunately!

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