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Engineer with pet= legit?

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Dominic0985, Dec 22, 2013.

  1. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, staying off-topic a bit, I mean I don't consider myself hard core anymore I suppose (according to many people's definition of hard care that is). I don't have quite as much time to raid as I used to. But being an ex-career raider, I think we are in that group that understands this philosophy. I mean raiding is not just a fun "oh let's do a raid because we don't have anything else to do" kind of thing, it's an objective first and foremost, it's carefully planned, each and every member is there for a purpose and has a specific function and role, and it's not just something that you can toss together (well you can, but most likely there will be some unforseen variable that gives you a massive headache when diving in).

    But getting back on topic, I really hope that the engineer is not just the type of class you really want to play as ranged, but if you do, you're going to be so gimped that most people opt to not play ranged. I know that the Slinger and Esper are the signature ranged classes, but I think if they made the Engy capable of going full ranged (while not being nerfed as range) I just might choose Engy over Slinger.
  2. Destian

    Destian Cupcake-About-Town

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    I thought they were referring to the fact that the medic can heal shields.
    Arkavien likes this.
  3. eharper256

    eharper256 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, funny that the Medic has way more Shield Heals than the Engi. Which is fine, but it isn't especially logical.
  4. Koriel

    Koriel New Cupcake

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    Perhaps they should give pets more utility out of solo play (group buffs / health link / additional heals / maybe a bloodlust or a debuff) to make'em a viable choice in groups/raids.... we already know they repair shields (for groups?) and they can contribute to interrupt armor with their cc abilities...
    Domi Dayglow likes this.
  5. MrDreadful

    MrDreadful Creepy Cupcake

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    I fear they may be almost too legit to quit.
  6. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Pets should be very helpful to an engineer when soloing. I think that's pretty much obvious to anyone. Pets in pvp I think can provide a little annoyance to other players, but I think would really be a threat when facing three engineers. That's six pets to deal with and, if the team focuses their offense, could be very dangerous.

    Like some other people, I am concerned about pets on raids. The robots don't seem to understand the need to dodge telegraphs, one of the core concepts of the game. Telegraphs from raids and dungeons can really hurt. At those points I think I long range DPS engineer would be more effective by choosing like the artillery bot.

    I think it would be best to adjust your skills and abilities based on the situation. If it were me, and I was playing say as a tank, I would take robots that added offense. Essentially letting me tank for them while they did the damage. Or vice versa.

    I do think that an Engineer would be better at dealing with adds. Especially if there is a dungeon encounter where the boss summons them. Heavy armor to resist their sudden attack and robots to spread out their threat while the tank focuses on keep the boss's attention. That's something the spellslinger would have a harder time doing.

    A spellslinger will do more damage than an engineer. At least, have a higher damage ceiling. This is due to an engineer wearing heavy armor vs. light armor on the spellslinger. Carbine has said that the lighter the armor, the higher the damage ceiling. They haven't really said how much of a difference that would be, though. I do think that the use of robots would help to even out the gap, but the only way to know that for sure is at launch when the tweaking is finished.

    I like this idea, but it worries me that it will probably never happen. Mostly because I wonder if letting bots buff would put the Engineer into more of a 'healer' roll in Carbine's eyes.
  7. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    From what I understand, they are still tuning the Engineer bots and probably will be tuning them up until launch. So they are by no means satisfied with the bots in their current state. I take this to mean that they are concerned about their viability in all scenarios.
  8. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    I wonder how possible it would be to give the the robots the ability to dodge telegraphs?
  9. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    That is something that people have desired for pets in almost every MMO I have played. Doesn't seem like it should be difficult, but I suppose I don't know what's involved. I do believe that pets should be intelligent enough to simply move to the side if it finds itself standing in something bad. If it's the devs will that bots die occasionally, then they could even attach a random chance to the bot's dodge skill. I don't know. It would be nice though.
  10. Koriel

    Koriel New Cupcake

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    Hmmm... My personal opinion is... I think having pets that are "too smart" takes away the point of a pet class... strictly from a functionality perspective... of course this would depend on the creative direction that Carbine is going with... and the role an engineer plays in group play mainly...

    But if it is a pet class... I should have the option to i) go full-pet-dependent (like a BeastMaster Hunter) ii) go with no pets or iii) have a co-dependent synergy with pets. Translating all these options across different roles (Tank/DPS) would be a secondary challenge to the design mechanics. Again, we are in BETA.... so... guess this is the time to debate on creative direction of the class.

    If survivability is an issue, this would be easily solved - make these pets controllable. Let the players control the pet's movements and let players be responsible for the pets survivability... what makes a pet class player good... is an uncanny ability to micro-manage a character... as well as 2 pets. Perhaps some would say... then the engineer might have a higher learning curve than other classes... but so what... we got a class that's harder to learn... this game was supposed to have the philosophy that better players should get rewarded.

    Again, I think we should stop thinking of the engineer as a "dps class" or "tank class"... but rather... as a "pet class" first and foremost.
  11. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Why should we see it as a pet class when you can do both roles without a pet and still be the best?

    An engineer CAN be a pet class if you choose it to be, but you can also decide to just play without them. Seems to me thinking about the engineer as a dps/tank class is way better then as a ''pet-class''.
  12. coreymj78

    coreymj78 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree with Exactica. As it stands now, I don't feel that the Engineer's bots offer that much in terms of the Engineer's role. I suppose this is why they are probably being tuned, but it could be Carbine's desire for the bots to be more of a bonus rather than a substantial part of the Engineer's function. They are in essence just one of many abilities the Engineer can choose from.

    As far as having to micro-manage two different pet's movements and abilities, plus manage your own movement, dodging, abilities, buffs, etc, I highly doubt this would be do-able for the average player or even a highly skilled player. Maybe it would in other MMO's, but in Wildstar, there is just too much going on during the average boss fight. It would be like playing three characters at the same time while fighting a boss.
  13. Koriel

    Koriel New Cupcake

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    In a way, I would agree with Extatica... we can look at engineers as a dps/tank class that CAN be a pet class... but like i said.. this depends on the direction Carbine is going for... is the Engineer going to be i) one of 3 choice for tanks or ii) one of all choice of dps or iii) the only pet class that can Tank/DPS.

    Guess I skipped a step in clarification... I was making the assumption that Carbine was going for iii) then made a disclaimer on "depends on the creative direction they are going with".

    Well... fair enough... you do have a point.... it does get hectic in raids... and the last thing i wanna do is worry about my 2 pets ON TOP of my own survivability.... perhaps somewhat easier controls on the pets? (i.e. Attack/Follow/Stay/Skill-1/Skill-2) kinda thing... not literally moving them one at a time....maybe.... just thinking out loud

    Again.... just an opinion/idea... again, depends on the creative direction Carbine is going with. I am supportive of a pet-class that can tank/dps... with spec options that are a) pet-dependent b) no pets c) pet-synergy balance (think Lone Druid/Syllabear from Dota)

    Would love to hear your thoughts on the creative direction... of which way we would like it to go...
  14. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    1 thing before we begin, if you use the ''reply'' button in the lower right corner of a post you can ''quote'' it so they get an ''alert'', this way they can see when to respond to a post. It's a way better option to quote things.
    My answer all depends on your definition of a ''tanking pet-class''.

    For my definition may be completely different.
    I don't consider an engineer to be ever a tanking pet class, since it isn't that revolved around the pets. The bruiser bot only got 1 ability that can relieve your tank from his duty for a couple of seconds, while another bot has a weak heal. The cooldowns on those pet abilities are pretty long (if I see other cooldowns).

    For me to be calling it a pet tank class they should either gain more pet abilities per bot, or something else that makes the pet's a more important part of the rotation. ATM the bots look more like a ''oh <REDACTED> button''.

    But is that enough for you to be calling it a pet tanking class? For me it doesn't....
  15. Koriel

    Koriel New Cupcake

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    Agreed. The way it is now [don't have beta key]... I wouldn't call it a pet tanking class either...

    Unless, as you said... it becomes more revolved around the pets. Would it be bad if they went that direction for the engineer? - I'm talking about what it can be rather than what it is now.

    Question is; how do we make pets necessary/viable option in group play/raids?? - If you don't, everybody's gonna be non-pet spec'ed... if you do, how should they function?

    - Say with AMPs... the lenght is increased for the Buiser Bot... enabling it to take over and offtank until a debuff drops...
    - Say the healing bot adds an absorption shield for few seconds....as an "Oh <REDACTED>!" button
    - Or the DPS bot being able to AoE and transfer all aggro to the Engineer tank
    - Perhaps a AoE CC skill to enable the Engineer to kite ads
    - Basic controls enabling you to control your pets out of danger

    Abilities like this would not necessarily make the Engineer a pet-tanking-class.... but it would be pretty damn close... as the pets bring more utility and enhances what the Engineer brings to the table... above and beyond a normal tank/or dps role.
  16. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Also they just have to increase all health of the bots in order to make them good enough for a pet tank class. They still die to often to be heavily relied on. Heck i've seen streams that say it doesn't matter if the bot dies since it takes around 20 sec to resummen them. But if you rely heavily on the bots those 20 seconds become quite the ordeal.

    The main problem is that Carbine hasn't had the idea of ever making them into a pet-tank-class and therefore it will now (at this stage of the development) be very hard to make them viable as one.


    You just keep bringing up idea's i'll keep shooting them like a Chua should do :D
  17. Nimiar

    Nimiar New Cupcake

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    I would prefer the Engineer not become a "pet class" too strongly... I'm curious to see if pets end up being actually useful or just annoyances that you have to re-summon a lot in order to have their utility skills available.
  18. Gardavil

    Gardavil Cupcake

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    Some say Engineer is a Pet class, others see it as a Tank or this or that. Maybe it's not any of those...

    I see Engineer as the Tool Box class, not just "a" tool box but "the" for WildStar. I get the impression so far, I understand so far, that this is what the Devs wanted to create when they envisioned the Engineer class. The Bots are just tools, they are not supposed to make this class operate like a traditional Pet class like some other MMOs have. The impression I get so far is this class is supposed to more versatile and adaptable than the other classes, not stuck in any one or two roles, only shining when a smart Player utilizing the Engineer's Tools to the fullest.

    This is why I think there is so much debate over what kind of class this is. Some are looking to define Engineer in too narrow of ways.

    Correct me if I am wrong, for I am not in beta, haven't played yet, but that is the impression screaming at me about this class.

    and If my impression is mostly correct, I foresee much more balancing required for Engineer than for any of the other classes, otherwise Eng will be a headache... just the headache will "move around to a different area of the skull" with each patch. Tool Box classes in other MMOs seem to be difficult to keep balanced.

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