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Enough dungeons in wildstar?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Jdielas, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. selodaoc

    selodaoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Will we be grinding the same raid instance over and over in different tiers for second to best and BiS items?
  2. salazar

    salazar Cupcake-About-Town

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    Are you asking if raids will be in normal and heroic ? if so, no

    Are you asking if tier 1 and tier 2 will be the same raid ? I can only assume they wont. Would be the worst design ever and i've never heard of any mmorpg doing this.
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  3. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    Vanilla had a lot of instances and most of them were...Quite boring.

    Ragefire chasm as nice as it looks was so boring. Black fathom deeps on the other hand looks and plays well - I remember the event where you have to light 4 candles and everytime you light them a wave of mobs spawn - You could use em all up at once and AOE them down or one after another.

    Also: New dungeons like Deadmines teach mechanics - some don't. It's too mixed and a difficulty wishy-woshy-blobbendurber which I don't want in Wildstar.

    I DO want a long-as-hell dungeon like BRT though. I loved the blackrockspire dungeons!
  4. selodaoc

    selodaoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Lotro stopped doing "raids" and now only have "encounters (go into instance with raidparty and fight boss directly)

    Those have normal mode, hardmode and challenge mode (not sure about names) filled with random chances to get items, no master loot option either so it goes to random people in raid. Some can farm them 500 times (me) and get nothing, while others get it on first try.

    Also the BiS jewellry are in scalable scenarios, and the only thing the devs do when theres lvl cap increase, is scale the same instances to that lvl so people have to grind their eyes out in the same instances, again. (this have happened 4 times now)
    Ofcourse necklace, ring, earring, cloak, trinket, offhand weapon drop in different instances, which you need to farm 300-500 times each. And you have to do it again at the next lvlcap increase..

    LotrO have really gone bad after F2P..

    One worry i have with different paths is if it gives the same rewards, say 1 token.
    It is like that in GW2, and what do people do? They take time on the quickest path and farm that one only.
    TBH i think the playerbase that does them for challenge is much smaller then those that only want the gear.

    And this will lead to many complaining theres not enough instances.
  5. Cartographer

    Cartographer Cupcake-About-Town

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    WoW did it on release, but that was mainly because BWL wasn't finished so T2 gear was dropping in MC. As soon as BWL was available, the T2 gear (apart from Head and Legs, Ony and Raggy) was there.

    Frankly, given everything that has been said, especially the parts where we've been told we will want to run old raids for upgrades (BiS from previous tier will be better than average from current tier) and chips (to tailor your new gear) does indicate that WildStar won't simply be re-tuning an instance to the next tier of difficulty.
  6. salazar

    salazar Cupcake-About-Town

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    He said if we would be running the same raid instance in different tiers for gear. not if different tier of gear would be available in the same raid instance. So we are not even talking raid in normal/hardmode, we are talking the same raid being tier 1, tier 2 and then tier 3 of raid progression. Lets just be realistic and assume its not gonna happend ?
  7. Scarzi

    Scarzi Cupcake-About-Town

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    If this is the grand total, then it worries me. I don't know much about adventures but if they are anything like those crappy RP dungeon queues on WoW, ugh. You need at least 4-5 level 50 dungeons alone, not everyone will raid and pvpers will def want to do smaller PvE content. I would at least expect a dungeon every 5 levels from level 20 on as well. Oh god, another FFXIV: AAR in the making. Abort...abort!
  8. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Even with all of these other "instanced" contents in WildStar, the fact that there are only 4 dungeons troubles me. There should be at least 7 in my opinion but ideally 9 or more.

    The game might have a lot of content variety but if it lacks content depth, the game will have a short life I'm afraid.
  9. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    There's also shiphands on top of all of that, which are levelling only 1-5 player instances lasting between 15-45 minutes.

    I think dungeons are marked at around an 45 minutes to an hour and 15 mins, and adventures were said to be somewhere between 2-3 hours for 5 people.

    I mean that's a pretty good variety of content to pick from. PVPers will probably do the solo content and possibly some of the dungeon stuff, but it really comes down to how challenging the dungeons are. Not to mention hardcore PVPer's will be in 40 man warplots, which means they could easily snag enough members to raid 20 mans if they want to really get into group PVE content.
  10. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Why does it trouble you? I really don't get it. Shiphands sound like current WoW dungeons (in time investment) and Adventures sound like they're "super dungeons." What if they just called them all dungeons like WoW did in Vanilla, where some of them were the size of ragefire chasm, and some of them were the size of BRD.

    All Wildstar's done is said (pretty much) ok, so here's your standard dungeons, here's some shorter easier levelling dungeons, and here's some that are super long!

    Not to mention only those that will be raiding NEED to do dungeons, because the gear is useless (mainly) to the other forms of content. So, it's doubtful dungeons will be the "go to" for the majority of players, they will simply be a stepping stone for progression to raiding.
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  11. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Lack of information is part of it, along with being interested in having several diverse areas of quality, challenging instanced content. Maybe these other things will turn out well but without knowing much else I remain skeptical that it'll work out.

    Even as a raider, having numerous diverse environments to immerse ourselves in as we prepare for raids is important lest the content become stale far too quickly. That would just make the game unfun and thus stifle a major portion of the game's content. That isn't a winning formula.
  12. Scarzi

    Scarzi Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yes, that would put many minds at ease. The horrors blizzard brought to MoP with those crappy story dungeons (3-man) was a complete fail. That's what I picture when I see adventure....maybe shiphands would be more appropriate. Either way I felt like this doing those horrid foul abominations...

    [​IMG]
  13. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    I mean honestly... as a raider, do you really want to be stuck doing dungeons, or would you rather be... ohhhh... raiding? I'd say with their release schedule they can keep new and fresh things within the raiding content to keep "raiders" enticed. As for PVPer's (or other players) that want to do a bit of PVE, there's already enough content to keep them occupied. You have to remember there's a solo max level experience which, until now, was never a priority for ANY developer. I think this will catch a large percentage of the player base when they're playing during their non-regular times.
  14. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, I think the shiphands will be somewhat similar to the scenarios. The big difference of course is that they are levelling only content. This means they're a healthy distraction from the normal levelling and questing grind, as opposed to something which was supposed to be "extra content" at max level. I think if scenarios were originally levelling content, they'd be perfect, it's insisting they're actual content at max level and "great because you don't need a full group" is what made them terrible.

    They basically were just another way to earn valor points at max level as a dps which was quicker than a dungeon, but ultimately just another grind.

    I don't think Adventures are going to be like that, from what it sounds. They sound more challenging than the scenarios from WoW but less challenging than the dungeons of WS, but have a much larger time commitment. So, you can either do the adventures, which will take longer to get X loot, or you can do dungeons which are harder to complete but take less time.

    I think adventures are going to be a set of different objectives which you have to choose which one to do, and send you over the entire open world to do them. There may be challenging and not so challenging bits, but on the whole they'll be for your group of 5 friends to play through a "storyline."
  15. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I can't speak for other raiders, but I want there to be a significant gating process before getting into raids. I like the model of dungeon grinding to gear up and I want there to be some level of gear gating prior to raids. I just don't like the idea of jumping into raids so soon after hitting max level. Raids ought to feel big and epic which is part of why I love raiding so much, but the experience is cheapened greatly when it takes very little time and effort to get into raids.
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  16. Drokk

    Drokk Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree. It's definitely something WoW did right, and what many/most mmos since have gotten wrong (allowing people near instant access to raids). Also a major reason players burn through the content so quickly after release.
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  17. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, I think the fact that getting 40 people through to max level (and who knows how challenging actually getting to max level will be) will be enough of a "gating process." Sure things like attunements are cool, up until the point you have to do them for the 13th time because you keep losing raiding members because 40 mans are logistically "troublesome." This means removing or shortening that barrier allows for raid teams to stay full, and decrease the amount of "feeder guilds."

    On top of this raid groups will need the support of the whole guild to keep in tip top shape. That means there will be guild members who don't raid, but are "sponsors" or "investors" for the raid group. On top of this you'll need crafters and the like. The guild then becomes a community which fuels the raiding, and has a larger effort than just the 40-60 members who are on the raid or bench.

    Instead of making raiding a singular linear path which is gated by dungeons and attunements, why not make it about the raiding instead? Give players an actual story reason to keep coming back to the raid, instead of "You've defeated Ragnaros... next week he'll rise again and you have to defeat him again because you didn't really defeat him this time... but you did... but you didn't... Oh whatever, come back for more loots."

    Instead if raiding gives back to the guild which is then a direct relation to the faction's power, and wealth on Nexus so they can fund larger projects to further civilize it, then it would mean you're doing these things for a reason each week. In other words, what if raiding was just part of the even bigger picture? Wouldn't that make the experience that much more epic, and connected to your faction and server community?

    I think players are used to the gating given by the game, instead of gating due to logistics. But there should be ways to help overcome the logistical gates, like having practice sites for your 40 man group to learn to work together and such. I think making arbitrary time grinds for something which is already inaccessible, due to needing a large group of very skilled players wouldn't really help anything. Basically the experience can be changed and improved upon, and it should to keep the 40 man groups intact. So, while I get that you want the raiding to feel epic and have that hardcore feel to it, isn't the fact that they're bringing back 40 mans a good enough starting point to get people used to the idea for launch, and then perhaps at later tiers have more dungeons?

    Of course the other thing is, Carbine plans on a fairly quick release schedule, and they should adhere to that plan, because it's their main reason for going sub model. If raids are actually released every month (or two), would you still be remiss of extra dungeons?
  18. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I don't think we'll agree on this matter. I see what you're saying but it doesn't change the fact that I want a series of challenging dungeons as a preliminary step towards raiding after hitting max level. Going straight into raiding just isn't right for me, no matter the size. Maybe starting in 20 mans and progressing into 40 mans (if I heard right this is how they'll be doing it) might make up for it but that remains to be seen. I have my doubts. I'll just have to play the game and see what I think.
  19. Metasine

    Metasine New Cupcake

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    Honestly, this scares me a lot. Have you thought of using the same art to make multiple dungeons?
  20. Malorak

    Malorak Cupcake-About-Town

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    No.
    NOOOOO.
    Don't. I don't want the same dungeon three times with different enemies. I'd rather have 4 unique leveling dungeons, 2 highlevel dungeons and 6 adventures than the same stuff all over again.

    Guys. This isn't WoW. You don't level only by LFG'ing - atleast you shouldn't. If you do, don't mind me, I won't judge you at all - just saying that there's tons of quests ahead I bet...And you'll be sitting in there, beating the same dragon aaaall over again.

    I want very distinctive dungeons so that when I have 2 dungeons, they feel like 2 different worlds entirely.

    Also, while we're on the topic: Long-as-hell dungeons. Atleast one. Please? Blackrock would've been the best place ever if Vanilla WoW didn't have tank n spank bosses :I

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