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Envisioning WildStar as a Minority (Extremely Long Post)

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by MMOPapa, May 21, 2013.

  1. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    (This thread is merely a speculative envisionment of what I, a devoted crafter, hope to see in WildStar.)
    (WARNING: Any practical ideas posted here is subjected to become implemented into the original post; if you do not want your ideas being compiled for others to read in addition to the original content; do not share them.)
    ACQUIRING A TRADE SKILL:
    In majority of games (such as World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy XIV) there has been some sort of prerequisite to acquiring a craft implemented; regardless of if it's obtaining a certain level, completing a certain class quest, or having to wait until you reach the first city (and in some cases even further). It is very seldom that you are introduced to crafting or gathering within the confines of your starting areas... and this, as one of the craft, is a slight nuisance. While other players are already able to immerse themselves in the enjoyment of slaying of creatures for experience; we, of the craft, must wait. Don't agree? Can you imagine the displeasure of a typical player being forced to level a trade skill to ten before even being able to start killing things? The idea in itself is outrageous, indeed. So they why are we forced to do things other than what we enjoy?

    Concerns: Will there be prerequisites implemented for acquiring a craft?

    ALTERNATING TRADE SKILLS:
    As rarely as it may occur, there exists a major title video game that allows you to learn every craft and switch between them with no cost at any given time in any given situation or location. Personally? I think that's a little too convenient. I want to feel valued in the community that I craft for instead of feeling like eventually everyone in the game will be able to craft everything themselves and not need me. That being said, I felt the same way as a member of the Guild Wars 2 community; when a guild mate would ask for something to be crafted, everyone would be able to reply, "Oh yeah, I can make that... just cover the fee (a minimal amount) to switch back to Artificer." As long as you had previously leveled up the craft, switching between the crafts retained their skill level and only costed a minor fee. Some people might enjoy this... I did not. Once again, I did not feel valued. Due to the lack of end-game content for Guild Wars 2, many people went ahead and leveled all of their crafting professions. The end result? There was no reason to go to Papa when they could go to the person standing right next to them.

    Concerns: Will there be a cap to the amount of crafts you can learn at a time (i.e. World of Warcraft)? If so, will you implement a method to switching between them and retaining the skill that you had previously (i.e. Guild Wars 2)? If this is the case, how do you intend on making one who crafts feel valued in a community where everyone is a 'Jack of All Trades'?

    GATHERING:
    Majority of games released in the past decade have become infected with bots and while titles likeFinal Fantasy XIV have implemented mini-game systems to gathering; truth be told... it isn't enough. I can still foresee how a bot would exist with slightly extra programming. However, the best solution that I have seen to this issue has to be Firefall's 'thumping' system. For those of you who are unfamiliar with it click here to see a visual and I'll briefly explain it... a 'Thumper' is a device used to extract minerals from the ground, however as it thumps the earth it aggravates any local wildlife and creates an increase in localized spawning. Now while the Thumper comes in three grades (each a different difficulty with a different amount of mineral yield) it is not wise to attempt to solo the greater two. The end result? A gathering system that benefits experience, promotes grouping, and eliminates the possibilities of botting. This is definitely a feature we can learn from and adapt somehow into our sci-fi based MMORPG.

    Concerns: How does WildStar intend to implement gathering? Will there be measures introduced to prevent botting from ruining the in-game economy and possibly end up leading to gold farmers?

    Additional Concern: After originally posting the thread, a comment reminded me that 'World of Warcraft' implemented passive bonuses such as an increase in Critical Strike Chance to players of certain gathering or trade skills; will this be a thing in WildStar?

    CRAFTING:
    While bits and pieces of the crafting system have been discussed here, it is still unclear what is -within the capabilities of crafting. Yes, I could go by the example of any predecessor game in this situation but why stop there? Isn't this WildStar? Let's spice things up a little... for example, will crafting be able to play a role in Warplots? Sounds far fetched? Not so much so when you think about it... we all have seen the video clips here and there of a cannon firing upon enemies from inside the Warplot. Well what happens when that cannon becomes damaged? Is it possible to implement a non-combat only/channeled skill with a long cast time to repair it between battles?

    Other ideas would include being able to craft; furniture for housing, obviously all weapon typess as well as all three armor types, consumables with a more sci-fi feel (think StarCraft's stimpack instead of run of the mill 'potions'), mounts for universal use (think World of Warcraft's engineering mounts), vanity items (think Guild Wars 2 items), or being able to inspect someone else and repair certain pieces of their gear if you know that craft (for example in Final Fantasy XIV, if you were a Carpenter you could repair other people's staffs or wands via the UI).

    Concerns: What can or can not be crafted within trade skill capabilities? What uses beyond that of the trade skills will those who craft be able to further prove their usefulness to the rest of the community, if any?

    Additional Concern: After originally posting the thread, a comment reminded me that 'Guild Wars 2' featured a crafting system that would not only grant experience towards leveling the trade skill, but also grant leveling experience to the character as well; will this option be considered?

    [ANSWERED - SEE QUOTE BELOW]
    Additional Concern: After originally posting the thread, a comment reminded me that 'Star Wars Galaxies' featured a crafting system that would allow the item to be tracked back to it's creator via an attribute called 'Object Creator:'. Will this option be implemented?

    Additional Concern: After originally posting the thread, a comment reminded me that 'World of Warcraft' featured specializations within certain trade skills of their crafting systems such as a 'Blacksmith' specializing in 'Weaponsmithing' which in turn lead to specializing in a sub-specialty such as, 'Master Swordsmith'. This increased the value of the craft as it decreased competition based on your specialization; will specialization be a feature for crafting?

    CRAFTING STATIONS:
    In majority of games crafting stations are just that, stations in which you can craft at. However in certain titles such as Star Wars Galaxies, you could use a crafting station to place a ridiculous amount of items in queue and just walk away, come back later, then reap what you have sown. While I understand the desire to mass produce items for resale (especially since Star Wars Galaxies featured housing vendors), I dislike the lack of involvement of being able to just insert a ton of materials into a hopper and walk away; though I'm sure a ton of people will disagree and call it 'convenience'.

    Concerns: What capabilities will the crafting station yield for the player? Simply put, will it be a place for the player to craft or become a tool of mass production where the player can just queue the items he wishes to create and come back to it at a later point in time?

    BARTERING:
    While it has already been confirmed that an Auction House system is already being tested, I can not stop there with the possibilities of expanding the capabilities of this game's economy. Previously in a different thread, I brought up the subject of the 'implementation of personally owned vendors' (such as the ones I mentioned earlier from Star Wars Galaxies); the response I got is quoted below:
    ...and all though he says that, I also quote the DevSpeak video on housing:
    ...meaning, in my personal opinion, that the capabilities of transforming your house into a shop open to the public are all there.

    Though Vendors are not the only method previously introduced in a previous MMORPG for housing options. It came to my attention during a previous thread:
    ...so perhaps the implementation of a public access point which you can place in your housing networked to a central economy system such as the already implemented Auction House?

    [ANSWERED - SEE QUOTES BELOW]
    Concerns: What methods aside from the Auction House will players have for bartering items that they have already crafted? For example, access points to the Auction House via their house or vendors placed for public usage to anyone who visits?
    ADDITIONAL IDEAS:
    ...this idea was shared with me on one of my previous threads and I think it's a great idea, though I'm sure it'd take some elaborate programming to pull off.
    ...another fantastic idea that was suggested after originally posting this thread
    .
    ...a sort of catalog that the person interested in items can browse. For example, when people linked their trade skills in World of Warcraft via chat.

    ...a great idea that I felt just needed a little push of encouragement. If not for the crafting system than for the Settler system since it seems to be lacking quest variation in comparison to the other Paths.
    ...I actually found this in a thread from back in April while digging around the forums; but seems like it would be a nifty idea if possible.
    ...stolen from two articles written by Ryahl Smith of MMORPG.com with some great ideas of how Player Vendors and Auction Houses can co-exist while benefiting from one another.
    ...anything to counter the dreaded 'Trade Spam' that has infected every MMORPG (with maybe the exception of Final Fantasy XI, since they have 'ffxiah.com' for trade advertising) lately.
    ...posts on both pages four and five go into deeper elaboration on Vhael's idea as we discuss it in further detail.


    DEVELOPER TALK:
    I've decided to add this section for links leading to discussions, articles, or thread posts involving Carbine employees on the subject of the in-game economy or one of it's aspects.
    • Charles "Bull" Durham's article, 'WILDSTAR'S ECONOMIC GAME' can be read here.
    • CRB_Gortok's thread, 'Circuit Board Crafting: Random Chips' can be read here.
    • CRB_Gortok's thread, 'Elder Game Itemization' can be read here.
    • CRB_Gortok's thread, 'Level 50 Dungeon Item Examples' can be read here.
    • CRB_J-Tal touches on 'Item Challenges' briefly in chat, can be read here.
    • CRB_Gortok elaborates more on 'Chips' briefly in chat, can be read here.
    • CRB_Scooter's WildStar Wednesday on Tradeskills, can be read here.
    So there you have it... a peek inside the eyes of one of the ten to fifteen percent... Know what that means? That means that I'm the minority; meaning you won't agree with majority of the things you read here. Just remember, these are simply opinions of my given perspective on the crafting world; that does not mean that the other percentage of the minority believes the same things, just me.

    EDIT: Any content added after the original post will be marked in this color
    epiksheep, Kethrym, Outlaw and 12 others like this.
  2. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Heheh. I thought this was going to be some sort of post about RL minorities in gaming or something like that. :p

    The thing that caught my eye was your comments on mass production of stuff via tradeskilling. I can understand your issue with this. I think a large part of this problem stems from the usefulness of the item. I'm not talking mats here either but specifically crafted goods. In many games I've played, crafted goods seem to be almost only good for leveling up the trade and as such have minor or very short term or temporary uses. Therefore, mass-production mechanics in crafting becomes a complimentary feature to make "the grind" of leveling crafting less gruesome. However, I think that crafting ought to have a major importance and use in MMOs other than providing just situational goods. A lot of the ideas you have listed here are good ones on how to make crafting more useful.

    I think that crafting should play an essential role in the game's progression for other gaming paths as well. The leveling process should also be less grindy so that mass-production is less necessary and so that "skilled" crafters (if the right system is implemented) can create high-demand, high-quality gear that not only provides the most crafting experience due to good work (thus reducing grind and mass production), but creates a greater market incentive to actually craft gear for profit as opposed to gathering mats as in prior games where base mats make the most money, not finished gear.
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  3. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    No matter what the system ends up being, I like the "Thumper" idea a lot.
  4. Datix

    Datix New Cupcake

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    While I have very little to add to this post, I would like to express my support for requiring players to "lock in" to a maximum number of professions. There's something about committing to a certain path (no pun) in a game that forms a real sense of attachment and depth to your character. I don't want to be master of all, because there's no incentive to roll an alt to try different paths.

    I'm all for the ability to drop a profession and learn another, but it has to come at the cost of truly forgetting the prior profession and requiring you to re-level it should you decide to switch back. Decisions without consequences aren't decisions, they are just the next grind with an eventual endpoint to learning them at which point you're "done."
  5. Azhdaha

    Azhdaha Cupcake-About-Town

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    Fantastic thread, absolutely frightening title - consider having it edited just so you don't give anyone a heart attack... :)

    I love the idea of having crafting available to everyone right off the bat. Open those gates, and let those get a taste of it sooner, rather than later.

    What I would love to see is a system by which the 10 or 15% of the community considered to be "hardcore crafters" were recognized as such. A lot of people just level their professions for some passive bonus, or to make a handful of consumables for PvE, PvP, etc. That's fine, let those who wish to do so continue to do just that. It would be great though, if there was a system for those who really wished to go all out and pursue crafting as a major part of the play style (EVE comes to mind, for example).

    I would love to see Purchase / Trade Orders become a thing too in WildStar. On the AH in WoW for example, if I need a particular item and it's not there, there's not much I can do. Imagine being able to go to the AH, and actually creating an order for 10 particular items needed, and setting a price you're willing to pay (again, think EVE). I would absolutely love to play the economy that way, more so than I'd ever want to raid again. That's just me, but then again I do fit into the 10 - 15% niche.
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  6. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    After reading this post, it reminded me that I had overlooked one of the more appealing features in World of Warcraft that lured in quite a number of players who weren't usually interested in trade skills. The newly added content can be easily found in this color of the original post.

    Also I stole your idea. :speechless:
  7. Azhdaha

    Azhdaha Cupcake-About-Town

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    Chuas may be diminutive, but in addition to churning out scientists, they also specialize in law. You shall be hearing from my lawyer, good sirrah!

    ;)
  8. Haversham

    Haversham Cupcake-About-Town

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    Agreed, as a crafter and AH player I'd love to be able to make trade/purchase orders and post them on the AH. This is a great idea.
  9. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    We may be on the same faction... but don't make me call them. :roflamo:
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  10. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I would go ahead and just do it.

    It would make my job as an Exile much easier in the long run...
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  11. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's one mighty fine print you have there, I reckon. ;)
  12. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    It's one less oppressor in the world/galaxy!
  13. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    Hmm not sure if you missed it but just in case:

    You have a limit on how many crafts you can pick up and you cannot switch between them. I think Gortok mentioned it on the crafting thread somewhere.

    From what I remember, I think you have to be at a crafting station and gartok hinted that you have to be actively involved in crafting to get the best results . So while anyone can pick and craft, the dedicated crafters will be doing the great stuff.

    They also mentioned they don't want to make crafting mandatory for raiding or pvp , no best craft to pick up and so will tune it so that all the great items can be sold by crafters . That is you don't need to have a craft to min max so folks will end up seeking out crafters who are great at what they do for items.

    This was a while back but it is around somewhere on the forums. As a fellow crafter, Im really looking forward to crafting and hearing more about the architect profession .

    Hope that helps the discussion.
  14. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Interesting details. Nice.

    I hope this doesn't mean that crafting can't create competitive gear/items for PvP/raiding. That would be disappointing, but I can understand and respect their design philosophy if this is the case.
  15. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

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    Excellent post good sir. You hit on a lot of topics that I think would help give crafting quite a bit more depth.

    I've played a quite a few MMOs over the years, and have collected a huge lists of likes and dislikes about crafting. I generally don't tend to enjoy crafting quite as much as I used to in MMOs because there really isn't much point to doing it if you're looking for something that can make you stand out.

    Back in Warcraft, I was one of the only people on the server with a few Blacksmithing recipes that were in very high demand and actually advertised on the forums for the game and in game and took orders by mail. I made 1000s of gold back when having a few hundred meant you were rich.

    Expanding upon that idea, I think that it would be pretty cool if you could set up some sort of system, perhaps on your sky plot where people could visit your crafting station (assuming that you have one) and browse some kind of book/screen/vendor type interface that shows the things that you could craft. People could then place work orders and you would be notified that you have a task to do. Barring that, work orders for specific items that one could put on the auction house or some point in the capital city would give folks a good reason to hang around the capital as opposed to on their sky plot all day as well.

    There is so much that can be done with crafting to help develop social communities that I'm baffled why developers seem to gloss over some of this stuff and just provide bare bones type systems and the all purpose auction house. Human societies grew and developed based on trade throughout history, it seems only logical to try to extend that to virtual worlds.
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  16. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    It does, in a way... but what I was talking about was more of bringing utility to Warplot PVP in the perspective of being able to repair broken arsenal, mend walls, decrease the time taken to build new technology or decrease the time required to upgrade tech (assuming it isn't instantaneous and is more like Guild Wars 2 WvWvW upgrades/add-ons) rather than their use for itemization.
  17. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is my main emphasis of what I would like out of the crafting system; if I do not feel as though I am a value to the community as one who crafts? I will lose interest and just move on to something else.
    Stolen.
  18. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    What if, the reduction of your value as a crafter is the result of there being several other crafters who do what you do. I don't mean people able to do multiple trades but others who specifically chose the trade you did and plan to excel at it? In other words, heavy competition?
  19. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    the only problem i have with your house being a shop, is that there will be thousands of houses to visit.

    AH is just more efficient.

    i havent give it much tought about it yet, so i will come back here later.


    i just hope crafting is usefull in this game, most MMO's the raw materials are more expensive then the finished product, i never seen a MMO able to fix that.

    GW2 did it, but the crafted goods trivialize end game loot, since it's the same tier as high end dungeons/etc

    or maybe they could just make every profession as interesting as Engineering was on Wow.

    that was a fun profession to have, and it made your character have unique features, that were not about mini/maxing.

    instead of professions making loot, they could make things like jetpacks,cosmetic addons,freeze rays,parachutes,mechanical pet.
    Tl Dr silly crazy stuff
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  20. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Engineers did have some min/maxing attributes. I had a nice glove tinker that gave me an agility boost (being an enh shammy this was a DPS orgasm) every minute which I bound to one of my attacks. But overall, engineering was a fun profession. I took it up for that reason. :)

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