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Esper - Oh noes =(

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Cynosure, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. Cynosure

    Cynosure Cupcake

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    It's a bit discouraging that I'm finding myself upset with the class before I've even had a chance to play the game.. but, back in the day I found the Esper to be an intriguing class. The illusionist--the enchanter, if you will--the manipulator of mind and psyche, and the master of the relationship between mind and body

    However, after watching the live streams and all the footage available, it's obvious that the developers didn't put much creative thought into the class and simply assigned them cookie-cutter "caster" or "mage" spells with hip, mind-related names. I see no uniqueness in a swarm of blades "projected by the mind" as a damaging ability to set it apart from a fireball or fire shot from the Spellslinger's blasters. I have not seen any unique abilities that really draw into the power of manipulating an enemy's psyche.

    At the very least, I was expecting a class with skills similar to Illusionists/Coercers/Enchanters that you would find in a lot of games (all classes which are children of the parent mage class).. but it seems Wildscar (see what I did there) has left them behind at the mage root.


    I can still see myself playing the class as I am an avid healer and find no interest in the other healing classes at this point.. but I had really been anticipating this sort of character in a game for a while.

    I feel like my dreams of role playing a schizophrenic Chua have been crushed.


    TLDR:
    [healing is my preferred role in MMO's; but, the Esper seemed to promise an additional element (one that I really connect with in the dimension of real life) that did not get delivered which is very upsetting]
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  2. achesoma

    achesoma Cupcake

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    Nothing surprising here. They've always stated esper is the closest to the classic mmo mage archetype. If you're looking to be a debuffer, cc type you have the option to spec that way. Remember all the footage you're seeing is lvl 1-15 so end game could be very different.
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  3. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    Esper is a very interesting class, and I disagree with the OP on that it's not unique.

    The mind blades are a cool start to a very diverse set of abilities, from little summonable squid things, to floating soothing imagery, to OMG GIANT FIST.

    I just don't see how your not psyched for the psy class. See what I did there?
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  4. Ralphie2449

    Ralphie2449 Cupcake

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    i am pretty sure there will be enough cc abilities in the game if you want to play like that
    it can definitely be a traditional mage and it can definitely be a DOT necromancer which i am definitely going to try
    The only thing i am worried about is if he is going to be a good debuffer, something i missed in mmo classes, and well having 2-3 basic debuff abilities isnt enough for this role
  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    The point = you had the wrong picture of the Esper from the start.....you too, keep clining to ideas from different games.

    A few months ago there was a guy who was looking for a class that ressambled the Death Knight from WoW the most. You know what ''advice'' he's gotten?
    To either play WoW since he's not ready for a new game yet, or to adjust to the WS classes for it's their own game.

    As achesoma said, they said from the beginning that this will be the clossest to the mage archtype. So how can you even have thought it would be something different?

    They said what it would be, and they delivered that :D

    I guess the only illusions here were in your head :cautious:

    Yes you'll be able to focus a bit more on DoT's/Debuffs but don't expect a lot from it. It's still your mage class. Except some damage spells to have debuffing effects when they hit but not typical debuff only spells, or atleast not a lot.
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  6. Kay

    Kay Cupcake

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    Some elements are familiar; that's to be expected. It would be difficult to pull a completely original concept from out of no where; even WoW's ideas are simply digital rehashings of concepts seen in Dungeons and Dragons. In fact, I dare say that every MMORPG to date has taken inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons, directly or otherwise.

    There's only so much you can do with a concept, and if you can mix things up a bit, kudos, but don't be disappointed that the concept isn't entirely unique.
  7. FelixAkuma

    FelixAkuma Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't remember any mages being able to change into healing RAINBOW DEAR! ​
    :p
  8. Cynosure

    Cynosure Cupcake

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    The only thing that is diverse about them is the fact they have a different graphic from other direct damage abilities in the game.

    All that you've mentioned are particle and spell effects--which is part of the issue I was trying to hammer down. I didn't want to be a mage cloaked as an 'Esper' with pretty graphics.. I wanted an ESPER as it was described.


    Fingers crossed!


    I think you jumped the gun on this reply.

    I am upset because these types of things HAVE NOT been implemented into a game thus far and seemed to have been promised by the Esper. I mentioned "I at LEAST expected them to resemble Illusionists/Enchanters from other games"; that means, if they had completely <REDACTED>ed the promise of an Esper up, I would at least expected it to fall back as one of these classes based on the description of the character (hint, part of that description is in the class name alone).

    It's strange how you scold me for comparing the class to classes from other games and then go to compare them to standard "archetype" that is present in games you've played in the past.
    ..that said, they could have still had the class be the closest to the "mage archetype" and added some truly mental abilities.

    I will be having to adjust to their class, I understand--just not ecstatic about it.
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  9. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    As for the Green parts:
    That's why I said the only illusions were in your head (not trying to be offensive). I see this happen a lot of the times, people expect different things then in reality and becomes highly disappointed once they see how things are.
    That's why I always ask people to hold down the ''oh mayby they have...'' comments, for their own good.

    As for the Red parts:
    I still think it's strange how you could've established such a picture.....and from the name aswell?
    If there is one things i've learned after playing game after game then it's that names of a class don't always show you how that class would be in-game. I've seen it before....a Gaurd class that could not be a Tank, a priest that had no healing spells while people expect them to being able to do so....

    Rather then go by the name....you should've gone by what they said from the beginning. They said what kind of spells an Esper would have and that it comes close to the typical ''mage archtype'' (the root?).
    Isn't the Esper as we see it now exactly what they said?

    Anyway
    I find it interesting to see how you formed an image of a class by going off a name and hopes of what you wanted.
    Will you still be playing Esper or are you more attracted to another class?
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  10. WavE

    WavE Cupcake-About-Town

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    The only thing that is diverse about them is the fact they have a different graphic from other direct damage abilities in the game. - Cynosure

    I'm just gonna throw this out there. Didn't you just describe how video games immerse someone, in a nut shell?
  11. Wendo

    Wendo Cupcake

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    He does make a good point :D
  12. Cynosure

    Cynosure Cupcake

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    @Extatica

    Not sure I enjoy how you cling onto the smallest points of the argument and attack them :sneaky: (only pulling your leg). The name was yet a small portion of the pie--not the best example, at that. My apologies!

    The word "guardian" is not defined as a "tank", the world guardian is defined as a "defender or protector"; though, you may relate that to the word "tank" due to past direct experiences. However, one can protect or defend someone in multiple ways (including being offensive). Extrasensory perception is a term that involves extracting language/information from mental senses rather than physical ones. Technically, the designers are on par with that by saying "they use the mind to project abilities" which is where I went wrong in trying to exploit that.

    I simply wanted to voice my opinion on how I didn't enjoy the way in which they have blurred the line between "mind over matter" (class page) and "magic". Spellslinger, magic, sure (it's written there). Esper, magic, maybe in the minds of dumb brutes like the Granok!
    ..but, what's the difference from the Spellslinger does to create these sigils?! As far as I can see, there isn't one. Soooo, why were Espers so frowned upon and burned at the stake and Spellslingers not? What were they bringing to the table that was so fabulously terrifying (besides a few particle effects)?

    To relate to other games, I was looking for A LOT more "utility damage" over "direct damage".

    All of my information was obtained from the Esper lore, class page, and Q&A sessions. In no place on those pages could I find the words "expect to play a mage" as you are suggesting nor does it hint to that type of game play; if they're not going to change the class, they should at least alter these descriptions a bit.

    It wasn't until the live stream videos that I could see the overall cookie-cutter mageness of this class (and they hear them actually mention the class is most closely related to the mage archetype). Someone did point out that these were only abilities up to level 15-20, so maybe there is hope for the future.

    As for specific abilities, it's hard to say. You've put me on the spot and I haven't had years to construct ideas like the developers have.

    A few quick examples would be things along the lines of precognition (seer-esque, an ability that allows to see next move of the enemy and making it known thus causing the enemy to cancel the telegraph and those times it fails could be explained as false impressions--much like I'm experiencing now), perception alterations (mind-<REDACTED>, the world through the eyes of the mob cast on is altered without their knowlwedge causing them to buff/heal and damage the wrong teams OR simply filling their mind with thoughts and the Esper's voice causing them to lose focus of their tasks and mess up their next ability or two OR maybe have them appear closer than they are in their eyes so that their telegraphs aren't actually reaching your party until the foe regains control of his mind), hallucinations (build a "wall" in your enemies mind that keeps their physical body from moving past a certain point--think protective forcefield for the group), drain focus (attack the focus of an opponent and maybe even suck it for yourself), morphing the physical realm (sweep an ally to your position, make your allies float upward, imbue their items or increase their attributes, changing temperatures of enemies for debuffs/damages or increasing resistances of allies), dreaming/mesmerizing (shutting down an enemy's mind for a period of time), memory attacks (causing the abilities an enemy has to be switched--ie, a player would hit "1" to cast spell X but spell Y would be cast because they are effected by this OR wipe the memory of an enemy--the well-known aggro list--or make the enemy completely forget it was fighting you--dismount a player from PVP for a short amount of time), attacking the ego (demoralizing debuffs that will hit at the morale of the enemy), telekinesis (interaction with objects in the world), mind-reading (hearing the thoughts of a foe an being able to exploit weaknesses that group makes can take advantage of OR seeing through the eyes of an enemy to gain a tactical advantage or see what's ahead), reaction times (slowing enemy movement, reaction, dodge, and casting abilities or maybe special reactive abilities on part of the esper OR slow time, reverse time, etc.) destroy senses (mess up an enemy's head to where they can no longer sense players behind them, thus no telegraphs will be constructed there).
    ..again, put on the spot, but I think you can gauge a general direction with these. Think old age seer, oracle, spiritual master, meditation enthusiast, illusionist, psychedelia enthusiast, etc. and sensory input manipulation, mixed with cognitive behavior (and dissonance :p), meets Psychology professor from 2057 smashed into a pipe and then smoked in the most dense jungle in the galaxy.

    It probably is somewhat my fault for having gotten my hopes up with this image in my mind.. but, I can't say it got there all by itself; I was misled at the fork in the path.. but I kept running on my own, I guess.


    I will still be playing the Esper as my main (at this point). I do love the Esper's healing that I've seen and I'm a huge fan of HoT abilities. I'm hoping I will be able to focus my abilities on healing while minoring in CC abilities so that I don't have to follow this "fireball mage" path. The medic seemed somewhat more my play style at first, but as I watched on I realized this wasn't true.

    In most games, I head for the shamanic/alchemy or melee healer. I :inlove: healing, but don't necessarily enjoy casting unless it is to debuff or control an enemy. Maybe a DoT here and there, but I don't want to spend my time blasting an enemy down with projectile spells (and if I don't have a choice, I'm sure my chua will be using the /yawn emote quite often).
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  13. Cynosure

    Cynosure Cupcake

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    I don't think so? You may have to explain.

    Are you saying the spell graphics of your character are the only reason you find interest in games such as this?
  14. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Yay more info :D

    Personally I also thought of spells that bypass your shield since it attacks your mind directly...

    Anyway, they've said that sentence about the mage archtype way before the lifestreams. But I agree that it's hard to get up-to-date with every word that's been said if you join so late in the community.

    I think the AMP system may prove something positive for you....but don't get your hopes high for some real DoT'ing/Debuffing.

    2 things:
    I expect the lore of the Esper to date back further then that for the spellslingers (spellslinger is in the age were they have guns, while the espers was mayby way before that, aint no seeing guns being used around the age of 0 here on earth).

    And the first thing the spellslingers used was magic to ''make'' bullets. No1 ever said how those bullets look like when shot. And from various video's they look just like ''normal'' bullets. It's the sigils that looks different. But in the lore is no mention when they start using those sigils.
    Even the ability to enter the void was way after they had the ability to make those bullets.
    We don't know the timespan of a ''and then'' in the lore. MAyby it's a week mayby it's 10 years mayby it's 100 years?
  15. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    Welcome to WildStar Central. Here is a link to the Personal Introductions Forum. You are not required to post there but doing so is a good way to meet some of our friendliest members. Tell Kat I said hi.

    What changes would you like to see made to the class for it to live up to your expectations? Does the limited mobility from some of the Esper's abilities contribute to your disappointment?
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  16. Cynosure

    Cynosure Cupcake

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    Strange timing, as I literally just stumbled upon that sub-forum and made a post. I will go back with an edit to pass your request along to Kat.

    The mobility is not something I have an issue with. In an attempt to sum all of my posts in this thread up, I guess I was disappointed in the fact that a master of the mind is slinging magic-like swords and giant birds at his enemy rather than manipulating their psyche and breaking them down from the inside. I expected a couple of direct-damage, spell-type abilities but had ultimately received the vibe of an Esper as more of an indirect-damaging class with a lot of group utility and crowd control from the information that was provided about the class. In posts above, I go into more detail and explain better.

    As others have mentioned, this image I had was apparently a fantasy as it was made clear long ago that we would be simply a mage.
  17. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    perhaps if you linked to the sources of where they "promised" the class you have in your head, we would be able to better understand your argument?
  18. HaLCyiX

    HaLCyiX New Cupcake

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    So, what would you have liked to see in the esper, that wouldn't make them use frost/fireballs-in-disguise? You state the problem, but never offered a solution, even after all this debate.
  19. Cynosure

    Cynosure Cupcake

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    Sure thing!

    I will crawl the web tomorrow on my lunch break and compile all of the sources for ya with quotes. Please note I didn't say the devs "promised" anything. I stated that the descriptors, talks, and answers to player questions in existence made the Esper seem (to me!) as if it was a more promising class.. two very different things!


    I offered plenty freestyle ability descriptions and category names in one of my posts above (was put on the spot and didn't have a lot of time to think them all through). Read! If you need more detail on something I can surely elaborate on the idea behind it.
  20. Voorhees

    Voorhees Cupcake

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    The only thing I would say is to not judge a class as a whole from the livestreams yet. They have only showed up to lv 15 by the press and around 20 in the Dev Live streams.

    If you watch any warrior play, for an example, right now they look boring and very simplistic with nothing that was shown in other videos or talked about.

    During 1 stream I was watching the streamer stated that the warrior was farely boring at low levels but at max level they become insanely versatile with many different ways to play them. We are not able to see ALL of the abilities or all of the AMPs at these levels.

    If I went and looked at any game that I have played at lvl 15 and tried to judge the class it wouldn't go well at all. There is so much depth to these classes it isn't even funny.

    All in all, I wouldn't lose hope with the Esper. Now if you also don't like the visuals of the class either, then you might want to pick something else.

    FYI... I do not have beta, I just watch and read a lot!
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