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Esper's Innate

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by PalsyPlague, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. PalsyPlague

    PalsyPlague Cupcake

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    Does anyone else think that the Esper's innate just sucks now that it only grants you a bubble?

    I'll gladly admit that it was overpowered when it gave the Esper invincibility, but that bubble seems to only last a hit or two. Rarely, in PvP or PvE has the bubble lasted as long as the root debuff you get for using the innate. This is probably mostly due to the fact that a cloth-wearer who is forced to stand still is quickly a death clothie in this game. I appreciate the free psy-points but I find that I rarely use the Esper's innate because in many situations all it does it get you killed.

    I guess wasn't particularly annoyed with it until I played other classes and discovered how much better their innate abilities are. The Esper innate debuff needs to be mitigated in some way. What do you guys think?
  2. Etan

    Etan Cupcake

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    I agree that the shield feels a bit low. And PP arent generated fast enough to make it worth a latch ditch effort to burst people faster then they can kill you an immobile target. However you can roll with it and using certain abilities still allow you to move which is nice.
  3. Praiz

    Praiz Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's probably the most forgettable ability in the game, I just dunno, they have so few classes as it is and they give you a unique ability that binds you to a location for 5 seconds, when telegraphs are coming out like 5 per second in a battleground setting, and you get a shield that will probably only withstand damage from about one of the said telegraphs. Pretty forgettable ability, it's great pre combat when the shield doesn't matter though.
  4. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    In PvE I had used it to absorb incoming telegraphs when I couldn't dodge them or interrupt them. I had to stay very aware of the fact that after one or two telegraphs that I had to move or do something. It was good for a second or two to counter damage, then useless. I didn't really notice the psi-point generation part.

    However, I had one instance in the last pre-order weekend. We were fighting Lopcrusha monster thing and there was a warrior that held it's aggro. I used the innate then to generate additional psi points. It did increase my damage output by adding the bonus points to my rotation. The extra points also helped me with healing. Yet this was still a situation where I didn't have to worry about taking damage or dodging telegraphs much at all.
  5. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I felt similarly, that it wasn't that bad until I experienced what other classes' innates are. And they make the Esper's feel really weak... :(

    I think that in the current state, they could either take away the movement restriction or really increase that bubble (or make it a damage reduction or something). Alternatively maybe just make it something that allows the player to cast the stationary spells while moving for a short period? (This may be taking it too far, idk) From a min max point of view, the psi points it generates definitely can count as a dps/healing boost, but so can every other innate that other classes have.

    Stalker's stealth and Spellslinger's spellsurge are core to their mechanism so there's not much comparison there. Compared to warrior, medic, and engineer, esper's movement restriction seemed a little odd. Basically with the other three classes if you accidentally pulled 4-5 mobs, immediately pop innate, then you can probably kill them all and live. With the esper, it feels like popping the innate may allow you to live, but may also potentially get you killed faster...
  6. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    What if the protection from the innate extended to your teammates who were within like, 15m of you? Maybe it also boosts the resource recovery of them too?
  7. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    While I'm definitely happy to have something like that, but chances are this will again make the Esper innate too good. Just imagine a 40 man warplot full of espers, with 30 second CD on the innate everyone gets an interupt armor + a bubble + resource regen every single second, they can pack into 15m circles and just let the enemy aoe them --- 'Cause it won't hurt. :)

    I'm not sure what they'll do, but just out of my own fantasy I think the innate getting rid of stationary cast can make it into a very strategic and unique button. This will put the Esper innate on par with Spellslinger and Stalker, where it'll be a class defining innate and has to be mastered by all the top Espers, without being too OP.
  8. PalsyPlague

    PalsyPlague Cupcake

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    I definitely think you're on the right track with that idea Felion. The only reason I don't like it is because my esper builds don't use any stationary spells, so I feel like I'd have to totally re-work my build (though the damage reduction idea is good). Here's a few ideas I've had that might work for me:

    1) The Simple Solution:
    I think they should get rid of the root and increase the cooldown.

    2) The Fancy Solution:
    They could make it so that when you pop your innate you gain the same small bubble but instead of constantly generating psy points automatically you only generate psy points while you're standing still. With this change I might also extend the buff so that it is possible to gain the full amount of psy points possible while spending some of your time dodging telegraphs. (Probably also increase the cd by a little)

    3) The Fun Solution:
    Static charge! Get rid of the bubble, the auto psy point generation, and the root. Gain a small movement buff, gain extra psy points based on how much ground you can cover in a couple seconds. Perhaps make it so that using stationary builders during this move generates an extra psy point (for balance with those builds).

    4) The Boring Solution:
    Increase the bubble so that it can possibly last as long as the root, or increase a damage reduction like Felion said in his post.

    5) The Risky Solution:
    Give all of the psy points as soon as you have a free slot for them, kinda like how a chain-gun feeds ammo. This would keep the root and (imo) the tiny bubble. But you might actually be able to take down whatever is attacking you before you die.

    5) The Final Solution:
    Get rid of the root. Make it so that you only get a bubble when you are under 30% hp, when you are above 30% hp you get some sort of dps buff (increase cast-time / reduced gcd time is my personal favorite option). This makes the esper innate still not quite as good as the medic innate (no instantly generated resource).

    Well, I could probably keep typing innate-solutions all day, this is pretty fun. I wanted to add one in where the esper gets a big 'ol phantasmal armor and a giant sword to match. Their moves are replaced with a charge, a regular attack, and an aoe heal. When the innate ends the esper automatically uses fade out (but without the cc-breaking effect). Wouldn't that be awesome? Anyway, I really hope we get an innate that is on-par with the other classes by the time the game is launched.
  9. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Maybe it would be better to have the innate grant defense instead, but have it last a short time for a much smaller bonus. Like, 7% damage resistance like a normal buff.
  10. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    But then that would seem almost identical to the Engineer/Medic/Warrior innates... And still inferior compared to say, the Engineer's, if the movement restriction is still there. Currently 4 classes use their innates as "oh <REDACTED>" button, while 2 classes use their innate as core mechanisms, I just think that the numbers can be switched to make it more diverse perhaps.

    Not that urgent though, I'm sure they'll get to these things after the game is launched...
  11. Wicked Lady

    Wicked Lady New Cupcake

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    I can see the innate being more useful later on, but not in pvp...

    Think of it as a well timed safety net, big burst dmg about to be casted by a boss! BOOM! you can stay still and heal/dps and you wont take the damage,,, while the rest of the group has to run out stop dps and cower in the corner... :)

    As it is my belief is that the Esper can have the highest damage output out of all the classes (with effective use of CD's) so the innate shouldn't be a damaging one, that would make us too overpowered, and as far as the shield goes, I think its awesome, just not so effective for your low level stuff.

    My Opinion, don't change it, tweak it, or nerf it, it's perfect the way it is!
  12. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    That's the way that I have been treating it. The resistance to damage and the absorb shield can counter multiple telegraphs from open world mobs, allowing me those seconds to build up psi points before releasing them. It's also been a good panic button for me in open world when I might attract more attention than I want.

    This is kind of what I've found too with a lot of it revolving around quickly generating psi points. Amps like BINGO that give a chance for builders to generate an additional psi point. Then there are abilities like bolster. Bolster has two charges and can be double-tapped to not only give you two heal over times, but instantly generate two psi points. I've used it more often as a build-up type power for offense than a defensive heal.

    However, the Esper's main builder (Telekinetic strike) is honestly what we'll be using most of the time. It's also stationary. We can't be like a lot of the other classes and run around while still using our builder to build resources. We have to be clever. When we have to move is when we use things like Concentrated Blade, Bolster, Blade Dance, and Illusionary Blades.
    Jeuraud and Wicked Lady like this.
  13. PalsyPlague

    PalsyPlague Cupcake

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    Ok, I see what you're saying, and I definitely don't want to over-power the esper. But I guess I have two responses:

    1. Shouldn't the esper innate be useable in PvP?

    I don't want espers to be overpowered. But without an innate that is usable in PvP wouldn't the esper be handicapped? I did notice since I originally started this thread that the innate has gained an interrupt armor, which seems like it is clearly an attempt at a PvP buff.

    2. I have only played esper to level 27, does the bubble get better at higher levels?

    My experience so far is that the bubble isn't even big enough to absorb a single hit, maybe this is a lower level thing? It's not that the bubble isn't a large amount of bubblage, it's that in cloth things hit pretty hard. If someone could confirm that this isn't an issue at 50 then I'd definitely be on-board with Wicked Lady's argument for this innate regarding PvE play.
  14. Wicked Lady

    Wicked Lady New Cupcake

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    it is usable, however its not very effective. but I have to agree, I retract my previous statement, maybe a tweak or 2 is needed, for pvp that is....
  15. Cogburn

    Cogburn Cupcake-About-Town

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    Why not have stances like the tank classes? DPS stance increases psy point gen and dmg output, Healing stance increases psy point gen and gives dmg mitigation (take 20% less dmg rather than a finite absorb).
  16. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Probably because people would complain. The lighter armor you wear, the more damage you will do. Stalkers where medium armor. Heavy for warriors and engineers. When not tanking, stances help these classes counter the lower damage from being a heavier armor class. If Espers were giving a stance like that, they would greatly out damage others to the point that people would throw a fit. As it is now, I think that Espers still do slightly more damage than other classes.

    Quick psi-point generation is the key to Esper damage out put, and healing, anyway. I'm beginning to wonder how things would be if the innate generated psi point every half second while it was active? It wouldn't be like a stance in that respect, not providing a constant damage buff.
  17. Bloodclott

    Bloodclott Cupcake

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    I have barely ever used that thing and my esper is now level 48.

    Why? Because I forget I even have it in the first place
  18. PalsyPlague

    PalsyPlague Cupcake

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    This seems to be happening to a lot of people playing espers. It's the main reason I started this discussion. I routinely use my innates on every class except the esper and I think that is a shame.

    I kinda like a stance-style idea. Healer/caster stances haven't (to my knowledge) been explored in mmos before and it sounds interesting. But Domi does have a good point as far as the stance adding defense. Here's what I'm thinking:

    The "stance" only effects the innate while it is in use. So when you change stances it would only toggle between one or two innate choices:

    DPS "stance" innate: psy-point regeneration every however so often that seems balanced to the devs.

    Healing "stance" innate: convert current psy points directly into focus (I think this is cool^^. Maybe too OP?)

    My thought process: the dps "stance" should increase DPS throughput (duh), but the healing "stance" should increase healing longevity instead of throughput.

    I know we'll probably have to deal with the innate as is on launch. But I still find this amusing to ponder.
  19. Satarn

    Satarn Cupcake-About-Town

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    That innate would actually be really bad. Esper already has the least focus problems from all the healers and you need Psy Points to use your most powerful heals.

    Really, they should just remove the root part of the innate again and maybe adjust the defense buff accordingly if it'd be too powerful. It was added when Spectral Form was still giving complete immunity to damage for full duration, why keep it after that part of the skill has been nerfed?
  20. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    If we want something like healing and DPS stances.....

    A DPS stance would end up having to boost our assault power by a certain amount.

    A healing stance would have to boost out support ability and probably focus recovery.

    Both stances will have to keep our psi point generation. Psi points, and generating them fast, are key to both esper healing and damage abilities. And truth is, I don't think assault and support power boosts will help that much.

    I agree that the best thing would just be to remove the root. It was okay when the innate made is invulnerable, but now? Not so much.

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