1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Female Armor Aesthetics

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Kahlan, Jan 29, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Mars
    I can agree with that. Although I think it's far more common to see men playing female characters than it is for females to play males. For this reason, designing appealing male models for women seems counterintuitive when SEVERAL men play female characters. This of course would create a discrepancy since many women, most of whom play female characters ( I assume), are generally playing models and gear on said models that men on average want to see on their characters, but women don't necessarily get the same thing for them when looking at male characters and gear.

    The next question should be: SHOULD male characters be appealing to women and female characters be appealing to men? The answers individually would vary but I suspect that in this case, it's majority rules. I don't know what the statistics say (much less if they're even accurate) on how many men vs. women play MMOs in particular, but judging by my experiences in the game, I've met far more men than I have women. Of those I've met, the vast majority of male characters have been played by men while female characters seem to be played more often than not by men as well, although I'd say the split is roughly down the middle. I could be way off here but from my own experiences, it appears that men dominate the player landscape of MMOs, so it's only natural that male and female character model and gear aesthetics are made to appeal to men more so than women. This may not be fair, but making games is a business and catering to your customer base is a rational choice.

    However, even though I and many people would never play an ugly or fat character as well as wearing gear that just doesn't look good or is excessively obnoxious, the game world IS enhanced by having that variety similar to how any story plot is enhanced greatly by including a diverse cast of characters. Customization and choice is a friend and provides the option for those who are different from most in their tastes to make their character look how they want. I know there's a few folks out there who'd like to make their female granok a Therazane lookalike. All power to them! You creeps...

    I don't disagree with anything you said. My point was probably not well made but it was the best example I could think up. :p I've seen countless examples of the differences in sex appeal between men and women and I have, although nobody's preferences are the same, seen a pattern in what women like in men vs. what men like in women from the aesthetic viewpoint exclusively. That is all that I meant. My example wasn't a good one because relationships, like you said, take more into account than just each partner's appearance.
  2. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    341
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    North Dakota

    One woman's ideal of beauty. Different people like different things. That's okay, even if that means some people find something attractive that you think is odd, or too feminine. I think that's the basic point of requesting a variety of gear styles and some options when it comes to body types.
  3. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    367
    Trophy Points:
    63
    We're mostly in agreement, I think. And yes, gaming has historically been a man's world and will most likely continue to be for some time, although it's beginning to even out a bit. I think there are more ladies playing MMOs than most guys would think, and there are -definitely- more ladies playing male characters than most guys would think, but we're still far from parity.

    Which is fine, none of this bothers me and I don't want to give the impression that it does. I'm simply in firm agreement with the various things Naunet has said about attractive male characters and it's something I personally wouldn't mind seeing more of.
  4. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I would challenge that you don't see a lot of women playing male characters because those male characters are not modeled in a way that is appealing to women. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. In TERA, I know a large number of women who have nothing but male castanic and male high elf characters, because finally there is a game out there that has designed men in a way that is appealing to women! Granted, human males still look like hideous, steroid-hulked monsters, but at least there's some variety.

    Exactly! And I think that providing those kinds of options is a seriously worthwhile point of investment in terms of man hours and money.
    Apostate likes this.
  5. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 27, 2013
    Likes Received:
    341
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    North Dakota

    I don't see any reason why it needs to be a zero sum game, where either men get characters they like, women get characters they like, or each gender gets one character model to please it. Adding a few different options pleases both men and women with generalized tastes, makes it more likely those with unusual tastes will find something that fits their non-standard preferences, and pleases the altaholics by simply giving them more options.

    I do understand the business pressures associated with making an MMO, but I'd also point out that MMOs are a fairly niche genre where games seem to be fighting over the same groups of players, many of whom are now used to game-hopping and may never settle down in any game. An alternate success strategy might be to attempt to appeal to players who are new to MMOs. (Unfortunately, while WildStar has some great qualities, I don't think it's decided to go down that path, at least based on the reaction of the friend who I've been trying to push from single-player games to dabbling in online play.)
    Apostate likes this.
  6. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    367
    Trophy Points:
    63
    In WoW, I encountered more than one guild that was made up almost entirely of female players with male blood elf characters. And I've seen that phenomenon in TERA as well.
  7. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2013
    Likes Received:
    157
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Agile granok. That's an oxymoron right. :p
  8. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Mars
    I hardly have any statistics on the actual numbers of who plays what so you could be right, and women are definitely expanding their presence in games, though I haven't seen much info on how that change is occurring in MMOs in particular.

    Maybe. I have no clue and naturally I'm a skeptic but I see merit in your argument. MOST females playing males that I've met in WoW were playing one race in particular far above the others. I bet you can guess which one. It's also for that very reason why I could NEVER get myself to play the male version of that race. I quit before I even hit level 5. :p

    In terms of Wildstar though, I'm not sure if we'll see male characters that fit the characteristics you've outlined as attractive to many female gamers. I think an aurin male would be the closest which would be very amusing since I believe the males of that race might actually be shorter on average than the ladies.

    I'm just explaining the likely reasoning behind the choices that the devs have made. I'm in favor of multiple choices for character and gear customization so long as there's enough for me to like out of the options available.

    Take WoW for example, ignoring the fact that in terms of specific customization options, there isn't much at all in that game. Still, there's a wide variety of races. I could NEVER play a blood elf male even though I've tried a few times. However, I still had plenty of choices. I liked the monstrous and alien appearances of the orcs, trolls, and draenei. Draenei women had the nice blend of both an alien appearance and a curvaceous body that appealed to a wide range of my aesthetic preferences. I had a lot of choice with the races in the game even though there were plenty that I just couldn't play. I played the game and enjoyed it along with the look of my character. This is the kind of principle that I mean. Expand upon that by adding a wider variety of customization options and you made an already great race selection pool explode with creative and individual potential.
  9. Coblago

    Coblago New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2013
    Likes Received:
    23
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I've yet to see a game implement the easiest fix to the whole "too much/not enough skin". One word.

    Catsuits.

    Seriously, take any revealing armor you can find on any game, put a catsuit underneath, and now it looks classy.
  10. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    118
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Michigan, US
    I have no idea where the thread is going based on the last couple pages, but my last post from what I would consider a constructive viewpoint to offer to Carbine would be as follows:

    I realize that Wildstar is a goofy science fiction world where the rules of physics and combat are played a bit fast and loose, but some measure of realistic armor should be provided equally for both sexes. Revealing armor for both sexes and top hats and tuxedos and evening gowns, bikinis and loin cloths, and all that are fine for role playing or tooling around in a city or at your house, but in my personal opinion (which I don't expect others to share or agree with) is that when you are in a combat zone fighting a raid boss or in PvP, you should be wearing equipment that offers protection and reasonable mobility together as a combo package unless there is a seriously pressing lore reason (such as a Slayer from Warhammer Fantasy) for it.

    I don't believe that putting armor in the game that is revealing a large amount of flesh even with shielding tech and magic makes any kind of sense at all and makes combat look less dangerous and I'm far less likely to take things seriously if people are running around in gear that is very obviously not designed to protect you. This is by far and away the reason that I couldn't take TERA (which otherwise had great MMO combat) seriously and continue playing it. Some things are worth suspending belief for, but I'm not sure that making combat look like a bit of a joke is one of them.

    Wearing an evening gown and high heels like the Cassian lady spell slinger that I see occasionally is ridiculous in a combat situation. That woman wouldn't be able to run half as well as someone in boots/flat shoes, and would likely get obliterated by the first person to fire a weapon or perhaps some kind of electric pulse to take out her shield or render her magic null for a split second, and there most likely are measures that people have taken even in a whimsical world like Wildstar to counter these types of things.

    I'm hopeful that Wildstar offers a wide variety of cool looking gear for the players to wear, and the armor on the characters to the left and right of this post is fairly reasonable (the aurin girl's armor could fix a few problems I guess but hey). I hope to see some really bad ass looking armor designs and some interesting techy looking ones and magic inspired ones. But please make armor intended for COMBAT look like functional combat gear and not ridiculous social type wear so that I don't have to shake my head or /facepalm too often.

    That is all.
    Joukehainen likes this.
  11. Rostinoble

    Rostinoble New Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    The Nexus
    Actually, I think this whole male and female thing is a load of old tosh. Humans are variable just as people are variable. The end. But when it comes to character creation, variety is most times forgotten, as well as creativity and originality. A "perfect" male or female body is unoriginal, and moreso the armor that shows off "perfect" figures and skin. I'll list a couple reasons why I don't think Wildstar will do this.

    My first reason is the art. The art is bright, pleasing, and a bit toony. Well, toony and happy attracts kids. Having sleazeball armor wouldn't be too wise, in my opinion, and I think the devs are smart enough to realize this. Plus, I don't really think that would fit in with the art style that well. My second reason is the devs themselves. There are some veterans in Carbine, and I think they realize what happened with games like TERA, Aion, and others with skimpy outfits.

    But also, look at the games with great customization. Perfect World and Aion are two. IT'S AWFUL. I saw people running around all the time with beach ball sized heads, tiny eyes right on their nose and stumpy arms. Game immersion gone. If it's one thing I don't think MMO's have gotten perfect, it's character creation. *Shrug* We may just have to deal with perfect bodies. I can think of worse things to deal with, really. I would rather have perfect characters than skimpy armor.
  12. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Trophy Points:
    93

    Actually, Wildstar does do this, in a way. With every female member of the races having the "perfect" human body type and proportions, no matter if they're a silicon rock life form, a lion dragon hybrid, or an ordinary human.

    The males look like their species, the women look like human women cosplaying the species.

    After all, find the granok.
    Daynejah, Seagrey and Naunet like this.
  13. Seagrey

    Seagrey Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Likes Received:
    144
    Trophy Points:
    43

    It's a fantastic rendering...and I hope to see that sturdier model as well.

    You nailed the aesthetic of the game...and I hate to say it, but I think the current Carbine renderings of females miss the mark. Your avatar next to the guy on my right...look good together. The funny bunnies and the other females...are overly sexualized in appearance and pose and run animation.

    I don't think I can play the female in Wildstar as it stands...and I really want to. To be comfortable, I'll choose to play a male and keep my eyes averted from the female toons. Who in the world can take them seriously? I can't...and I have to relate in some way to a toon to enjoy it. Heck, I could relate to the AC2 Tumerok and Lugian without any issues. Those toons could do serious damage and looked it.

    I'm guessing that the majority of female toons will be played by guys in this game.

    Of course, I think most of us will try to create an acceptable female toon...but I can't see myself playing it beyond a few levels.

    Just one woman's opinion...
  14. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2013
    Likes Received:
    339
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yeah, to be perfectly honest, I don't really like playing male characters (for RP reasons), so if I can't create a female character I'm happy with looks-wise... Well, the odds are against my staying with the game at all.
  15. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,033
    Trophy Points:
    93
    wait that was a user drawing? I thought it was concept art I hadnt seen (also, I know you said she was "lean" being a ranged class, but thats pretty much how lean female granoks are ingame)



    gud job :thumbs up:
    Trahma likes this.
  16. Rostinoble

    Rostinoble New Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    The Nexus
    Oh, sorry, I meant the armor there. xD But I do see where you're coming from. We haven't seen the finished product of character creation, though. We don't know exactly what's going on. It's way too early to tell anything for sure about it. I hope we get different body types. I mean different body types. Not hella slim, to slim, to slim-ish, to muscle slim (looking at you, GW2). Realistically, that's not looking too good, though. If the npcs are all done for the most part, than that's what types of bodies we'll have. Guess patience is all we have for now.
  17. frogbound

    frogbound New Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 29, 2013
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Munich, Germany
    <Removed Content>
    The only thing I really really really want to see is freaking HEEELS!
    WoW couldn't provide them ever!
    But my Character will need HEEEEEEEEEEELS!

    <Mod Shades> Please refrain from saying things like this that can be taken offensively, especially by so many people. The first two comments were insults, the first to females, and the second to males. </Mod Shades>
  18. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Likes Received:
    244
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Bucharest. Romania.
    Random internet polls always show that at least half of the total male players will be playing female characters.
  19. Sora

    Sora New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    First let's start with the whole realistic point.

    Realistic for a female going into combat is wearing a sports bra in modern times, or some kind of bandages pressed tight, so that your "things" don't get in the way.
    Does that look good at all?...
    most of the time not that much, with a few exceptions maybe

    2nd let's look at cloth armor, other than protection from bad weather, or plants/insects, there is no real protective value involved.
    Against sword, knife, bullet, explosion, flames it's just better to not get hit if you wear cloth.

    As for Leather, the protective value is slightly higher, but against most things encountered in combat, it's still like nothing at all, especially against the things that commonly hit you in wildstar.

    Metal, carbon or other heavy armor really gives you protection, on that note, it has to be "protective", meaning near to 0 skin shown.

    Now let's ask the question, what is armor for then, if not protection?
    In almost all Games armor magically, or scientifically increases you stats, that the main reason why people wear it, not the protection it gives.
    Sole exception is tanks, if they are not shapeshifters or anything alike that doesn't take direct dmg on the armor.
    So unless it's about heavy armor, don't bring up realistic again plz!

    All that considered, showing cleavage or leg, can give a good amount of protection against men!!!
    And having vulnerable spots makes fighting intersting, because the enemy may aim for them, and you know that!

    More a problem for me is that there is no way to change the chars themselfs.
    Like boobs, waist, hips slider.
    The only race appealing to me with the standard design atm is Aurin, for the rest I'd want more waist, less boobs, etc.

    Independend of what i wrote, best solutions for all tastes: warderobe + options!
  20. Xaine

    Xaine Cupcake

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    52
    Trophy Points:
    13
    I agree with most of the opinions here.

    I always felt bad for women who had to put up with this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page