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Female Armor Aesthetics

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Kahlan, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree wholeheartedly with the wardrobe plus options deal but you should be careful when arguing that realism shouldn't factor into things or you're going to end up right back where you started with regards to female armor being ridiculous looking, which is the point of this thread (or so I thought, people are really all over the place and off topic here).

    One of the reasons that I advocate realistic armor that offers protection and realistic mobility for females is because that is generally what the males get, and if you are being more realistic, you're not going to have people in evening wear and heels out on the field when their lives are in danger.

    If we toss realism as a meaningful judge of what we should be wearing on the field, then you lose a major argument point against hooker armor to the marketing types who know for a fact that "sex sells, put the women in hooker clothes and give them all big boobs, it doesn't have to be realistic, it's magic!".

    I think that if people genuinely want realistic portrayals of females in games, and if they want to get more Commander Shepards, Samus Arans (old school one) and Zoe (Mal's old war buddy from Firefly who is one of my favoritist characters evar) archetypes in their games, then they have to demand that they have more and not less realism. All three of those characters are strong females who kick butt, all are fully clothed, but still easily identified as women, and there is no question at all about their competance from anyone around them or they have that situation rectified immediately.

    Not every woman is a supermodel with a giant gravity defying chest, teeny tiny waist, and big hips in the real world unlike how most video games portray them. How women are generally portrayed in games is not very realistic in the slightest, and I don't think it is possible to refute that point. If we throw too much realism out because "hey it's magic/tech!", then what's the problem with the marketing types saying "eh, it's magic, everyone's a supermodel because of magic or tech, sex sells!" again, and you have limited choices in avatar other than plastic looking bimbo body and hookery combat armor again, perhaps with a slightly slimmer one or slightly curvier one. It's not a good idea to cavalierly treat the rules of realism and expect people to be/act/create anything realistic. How many people would eat anything healthy if the rules of eating food and getting fat no longer existed? Not many I would imagine, and I doubt very many people would expect them to. I like eating pizza and hamburgers way more than salad, but physics keeps me realistic about it. :)

    If realism is not the point of this thread, then I'm really not sure what everyone is talking about anymore here, or what people actually want. There have been 20+ pages of people talking about unrealistic portrayals of women and their stripper wear and how there should be more realistic armor and body options if I haven't missed anything, and I think that's a pretty decent goal to shoot for. I don't think that arguing against more realism with regards to armor is going to help the cause any.

    I could be wrong, I just call it like I see it.
  2. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's about fairness and respect for women.

    Realism is just a side thing. It's what comes out when people brake down the simple unfairness in mmo armor. It's part of the issue, but not the entire issue.
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  3. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wouldn't realistic portrayals of women be the ultimate way to show respect and fairness though? The problem to me seems to clearly be unrealistic hooker armor as the only option in many MMOs and people want more realistic options like men have.

    I don't really think the two can be separated in the case for arguing about armor aesthetics here. I could be wrong but I believe that was what just about every woman in the thread was asking for.
  4. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    Actually the only thing that is really being asked for is non-hooker armor options. No one really seems to be against the idea of sexy armor, or chainmail bikinis persay. What people want is the option to never, ever have to wear one if they don't want to. Realistic has nothing to do with it really.

    Realistic is a fairly ambiguous term when you are dealing with a sci-fi setting.

    For example some people are saying the Aurin don't have realistic proportions. But what's realistic proportions for a alien species? How can we possibly know what they should look like?
  5. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I am okay with revealing armor in the game as long as two conditions are met:

    1. There must be an equal number of non-revealing armor options available.
    and 2. Any armor that is revealing on women must also be revealing on men. Likewise, any armor that is fully covering on men, must be fully covering on women.
  6. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    They aren't separate just one is a part of another. I don't like to get too mired down into the realistic because as people have said realistic takes on a different form when your a space bunny with magic nanobots that let you turn invisible. The core idea of fairness doesn't change though. One can argue that lingerie armor can function as well as full plate because it's magic and so that is realistic, but no one can argue that it's fair to have all style choices follow along with what men want.

    Edit: Another thing is that I don't really like realism in games. I'd rather tell realism to GTFO and let fly my jet with my T-rex co pilot Roxy.
  7. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

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    Fair enough, I'll bow out then. I'm not sure how people expect to go about this issue without demanding more realistic armor that covers them up more effectively like the dudes get if the goal is non-hooker options. Realistic doesn't have to mean boring looking, or we can't have fantastical designs, just more realistic with regards to basic common sense like don't go into combat dressed like a hooker as opposed to make the whole world like call of duty or something. Act realistically over having the setting be realistic.

    I have nothing at all to say about alien species with regards to realism and that's probably off topic anyhow although I see your point on it.

    So much easier in EVE online. Everyone's avatar is a ship. :)
  8. Seagrey

    Seagrey Cupcake-About-Town

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    I just had a visual!

    Funny bunny with bouncing helium boobs goes into combat. Gets one-shot in the chest.

    *HISSSSSS* (major leakage)

    OOOOPS. (Funny bunny standing with two flat flaps of skin down to her knees)

    Funny bunny says, "Oh! That's what armor's for!!"
  9. Tayle

    Tayle Cupcake

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    This is excactly how I feel about revealing armor. Sometimes when I play with a friend that always play male characters and I female and we get the same armor pieces it's always "funny" to see the huge difference in the looks on them... One time he got this dark rogue type armor with hood and everything that was so cool and I wanted it as well but the female equivalent didn't even have a hood because the face, boobs, arms and some of the legs had to be seen. It didn't get that dark rogue feel at all.

    Female and male armor should look the same except for the shape and some details.
  10. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm actually okay - and would prefer - different designs in male and female armor, as well as different armor looks for each race. I'm not a fan of how every armor piece looks exactly the same on every lady or guy in WoW or whathaveyou. But you can have different designs - while each "tier" of items are still built around a common theme, so as to be recognizable - while maintaining equal coverage. The different armor looks for each race/gender combo are a large part of what makes TERA so tempting to me as an altaholic.
  11. Sora

    Sora New Cupcake

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    It doesn't really matter if you get shot in your shirt/jacket, or directly in the chest, you want me to demonstrate?

    Someone mentioned Firefly, i really liked the sci-fi style there, and wildstar seems to reflect it well.
    Way better than mass effect!
  12. Cottonspore

    Cottonspore Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wow, yes, this.

    I think the point that a lot of people miss is that at its core, it's not about the relative plausibility of the armor, whether it fits in lore, whether the style is cool etc: it's about identifying who armor is designed for and thus whose opinion on female armor "matters the most." These discussions make people extremely uncomfortable because they give the impression (and some of the participants seem to believe) that whatever men enjoy looking at or think is appropriate is more important than what women would enjoy looking at or think is appropriate for themselves to wear. It's a basic question of agency and the ability to control ones own image. I don't think I need to explain why that is alienating and why that makes this a perpetual issue until resolved.
  13. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    Reading these threads makes me want to pull my <REDACTED>ing hair out!

    Can we please stop trying to speak on behalf of an entire gender, and recognize that different people have different preferences? Some people like skimpy armor, some people like realistic armor, and some people want to wear a chainmail burqa. And all of those preferences are fine, regardless of your gender!

    Let's see a wide variety of armor, from modest to mankini, so everyone can feel comfortable with their own character.
  14. Vanor

    Vanor Cupcake

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    This is IMO the big thing.

    Let everyone look how ever they wish to, to a point. Clearly style choices have an impact, but no one should be forced to have their character look in a way that they find distasteful or are uncomfortable with.
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  15. Cottonspore

    Cottonspore Cupcake-About-Town

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    If people have been saying explicitly "I know for a fact all women desire to wear one kind of thing and one thing only" I haven't seen those posts yet in this thread. What I have noticed is that when these concerns are brought forth in the form of a thread, a certain percentage of the forum going population rallies to to tell people with those concerns that their demands for armor that deviates from the norm (the norm is usually revealing) are unfounded, not worth looking at, and not worth petitioning developers to listen to, usually with a barrage of arguments about how it doesn't matter anyway because this is fantasy/there are shields/the style is cartoony and therefore there's no reason to demand or listen to demands for less revealing armor. Which amounts to shouting down a very real and not insignificant group of people.
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  16. Thordran

    Thordran Cupcake-About-Town

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    Fun fact, silk is actually bullet resistant. So if you were wearing a silk robe, it would definitely matter. Not all armor has to be heavy metal plates. That's why kevlar was invented. There are modern types of armoring that you wouldn't be able to tell if someone was actually wearing under normal cloth attire.

    Although you do actually have to cover up your vital parts for it to work. :)

    /google it up if you don't believe me. Scouts honor!
  17. TarkeCat

    TarkeCat Cupcake-About-Town

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    One thing i am currently loving about my current game of choice (PoE) is how realistic/practical the armor sets are. And the armor sets look pretty much the same on each different class(either male or female) and i absolutely love how stupid the templars look in the robes and no pants combo.
  18. kiri

    kiri Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm not saying everyone's doing it, but come on, a good chunk of this thread can be distilled into "What Men Want" vs "What Women Want". There's plenty of people throwing out things like "what women have to put up with" and saying how this is about "respecting women". Male power fantasy, etc. etc.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with advocating for more modest and realistic armor, I never implied otherwise, but let's keep gender out of it.
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  19. kuunkulta

    kuunkulta Cupcake-About-Town

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    Actually, boiled leather is pretty effective armor. It's protection against swords is limited as greatswords like we've seen in screenies come down on strike with such force that just the impact could cause serious injuries, but generally leather is very resistant to cutting. Weapons like Stalkers' slicing/stabbing claws would have extremely hard time trying to penetrate leather armor, same as any low velocity projectiles. Leather is also very resistant to fire, so incendiary explosives and possibly fire magic would also have trouble causing damage to protected body parts.

    Just my tiny contribution to the thread. Happened to watch a document about leather armor on Discovery channel :p
  20. Jeremy Gaffney

    Jeremy Gaffney Carbine Studios

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    You've probably seen enough in-game already to know this, but our schtick is really to give as many options as possible.

    However, for both genders, skimpy outfits tend to be the rarity rather than the norm.
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