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How do you feel about "Limited" Action Sets?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Ingsoc, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    In the recent Curse interview with Mike Donatelli, he mentioned something called "Limited Action Sets" when talking about his Warrior built for crowd control. This was expanded upon somewhat in the ZAM "Hands-on with Wildstar" article where the author writes:

    Coming from a game where I regularly make use of 24+ abilities using full 1-12 keybinds with shift and ctrl modifiers, I am not sure how I feel about this. I am familiar with the system from having played several ARPG's, and have seen it in a few MMO's; GW1 primarily, and more recently GW2. I am sure there are many more examples; those are just the ones that come to mind.

    On one hand, I find WoW's system (my current game) to be overly complex at times. While I have no problem managing all those abilities and knowing when to use them, I find myself wondering how much fat can be trimmed. For example, is it really necessary for my Protection Paladin to have multiple Holy Power generators, each with a separate cooldown? On the other hand, spamming the same attack over and over to build resources can get pretty boring.

    How does the rest of the community feel about this? While there is definitely a skill factor involved in knowing which skills you need to have for any given situation, or finding combinations of skills that compliment each other well, I'm worried that only having so many buttons to press may make the game seem more simplified compared to other MMO's that give you a huge spellbook and say "go nuts".

    If this is the direction MMO's are heading, it might be time to trade in my 12-button Razer Naga for a Naga Hex!

    http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?media/curse-coms-interview-with-mike-donatelli.98/
    http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=31747
  2. Dyraele

    Dyraele "That" Cupcake

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    This system is like going back to EQ times where you only had a certain amount of slots and you could only switch them out when not in combat and/or meditating.

    Like you mentioned, it makes you have to be more strategic in your choices when you go somewhere. I find nothing wrong with this personally.
  3. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    After having played a game, where I can put all for my class accessable combat abilities and skills on 4 X 12 slots hotbars and still run out of space or require macroing to fit them all in, I will enjoy a limited actions set.

    Just like fiddling on the visuals at the character creation, I can see myself spend a lot of time later testing out abilities to find sets that fits how I like to play.
  4. Azzurri

    Azzurri Podcaster

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    As long as they have a lot of abilities to purchase and I can buy them all and switch them in and out I'm good.
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  5. Soylentgreen

    Soylentgreen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I made my view known about this in another thread but since this is an actual thread about it I'll reiterate. I think the limited skill set does add some challenge and keeps it from getting out of hand like WoW can feel sometimes; however, it can constrain builds at times as I sometimes felt in GW2 especially for tanks and healers who sometimes need more CDs or abilities to do their jobs than other roles.

    Another thing about the limited skill set that is interesting is it usually means no macros and while I wouldn't argue that macros can get pretty lame (example WoW macros making a class a one button wonder) they can be useful too I used them to bind all my tradeskills to one button or summon mounts depending on what environment I was in and uses like those were convenient.
  6. Draogon

    Draogon Cupcake-About-Town

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    I enjoyed EQ2 and WoW skill set system. I had about 10 hotbars in eq2 and 5-6 in WoW. I liked having it all to hand but can also completely understand how it could seem overbaring to some people. But it also allowed me to seperate myself a lot more in how i tanked/maxed my DPS than other players.

    Im not too fond of this one bar thing in GW2. It's far too easy for people to end up with the same skillset and just be another sheep in the herd, not to mention it just feels lacking to me constantly. I also really do not consider the one bar approach to make anything a "challenge". It's not challenging to swap an ability out before an encouter or after you've wiped.

    Attached a really old SS from an alt in EQ2. Please not the highlighted areas would fade out (and also the very bottom hotbar in the middle) and i had everything showing for the sake of the picture. But i still had it all at my fingertips when required.

    Attached Files:

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  7. Dragnog

    Dragnog Cupcake-About-Town

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    For me personally I do not find pressing more buttons makes the game more fun, of course in WoW (which I too am currently playing) you really only have button mashing and moving. I think in this game the fun will more likely come from using a smaller amount of abilities at the right time in the right place.

    I do like the idea of more reward for more difficult fights (in terms of number and positioning) which they have spoken about and I hope it is a built in system rather than a form of buffing as found for example in GW2.

    I expect as I found with GW2 that WoW players will have a hard time making the transition to start with. There was an interesting thread that I was involved with when GW2 was being tested where we concluded that it took about 10 hours for an average WoW player to get to grips with the combat system. Of course this was totally anecdotal, but the trend seemed to continue with my friends who started playing with me.

    I personally think that it is just another way of thinking about combat, both can be exciting for different reasons and it is nice to have that diversity now in MMOs.
  8. Guide

    Guide Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm ok with this. I'm usually intimidated by huge skillsets, which is probably why I enjoyed GW2 combat system than most. Just give me just enough to survive and the option to switch out of combat.
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  9. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

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    I think with the advent of dodging and a lot of mobile combat, I don't mind having only 10-15 abilities. GW2 bothered me with only 5, so I hope we get more than that
  10. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    i like the idea of having a limited ability set to use at any given time, as long as it's not stuck to the type of weapon you use, and would be best if you could switch between two sets in combat (on a cooldown). then also have the ability out of combat to switch other abilities in and out
  11. nomotog

    nomotog Cupcake-About-Town

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    How many abilities do you really need? I think you can easily get away with only a few abilities when you don't waste slots. Also would we be limited with passives too?
  12. Amlin

    Amlin Cupcake

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    It has very M:tG feel which I like, both pve and pvp feel competitive as it's a contest of whose got the better build. GW1 had that system and even years later it still felt fresh and fun.
  13. pseudo

    pseudo Podcaster

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    Limited action sets means more min-maxing -- not less. I'm personally a HUGE fan of them and so glad that Carbine is headed down this road.
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  14. Draogon

    Draogon Cupcake-About-Town

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    I disagree. The more choices you have the more chances someone will make a mistake or just not bother to test combo's etc (think parsers here). Completely of the cuff but taking crit chances and everything into account (as per normal mmo's) someone who only has a few choices is more likely to find the one that is most benificial. If you expand upon that the chances of them using the best abilites in the best order to - lets say maximis dps - gets smaller and smaller.
  15. pseudo

    pseudo Podcaster

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    I think you're misunderstanding the idea behind limited action sets. It's not that there's only five or six abilities, it's that you can only use five or six during a fight. This means exactly the opposite of what you said -- that means that with more experimenting, people are going to rearrange their bars for individual fights more than just having everything available all the time.
  16. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    Based on the new IGN walkthrough video, the "not final" UI we saw had 9 action buttons.
  17. thrastorm7

    thrastorm7 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Ok, so i see several people think that limited abilities is a nice thing and more strategic (which is not of course but anyway), my question is how many abilities is that limited, cause if it is 10, it's just too few, if it's 30 it's too much, my opinion is that the ideal is around 15-20, why that number someone might ask...

    Important: When i say limited abilities what i have in mind is abilities between 5-10 (maybe 15 even, but this is debatable). I consider NON limited anything, above 15 (ideally 20 and above) even if again you get to choose

    lets take a healer...

    A healer needs to have healing spells, and as such i consider the single target ones, and possibly aoe ones... another thing that a healer needs, is some defensive abilities, certainly more than one. another thing is a limited amount of offensive abilities, being a healer does not mean in any case that you are not supposed to hit things. finally a type of crowd control ability would be more than welcome.

    For me in the healer example it will be impossible to have less than 15 abilities...

    Now you'll tell me, why to have both single target and aoe healing spells, specialize in one... and i will say ofc i will specialize to one thing, but on the other hand, would be great to have the option, as base spell to have something like an aoe spell, for the fun of it, and diversity.

    Lets go now to the strategic part... To start with strategy will take a walk after a wile, when like it or not there will be coockie cutter builds... but lets forget that, lets go to the actual point here.
    The strategic parts comes in when it comes to choose that i will use on the current fight, so i sit down meditating, and i decide that this combo suits me more or is needed... excellent, a strategical decision has been made... on the actual fight i press the 5-10 buttons for the abilities i ve chosen and that either worked, or failed... so here we go on the next strategical phase where i correct things that i think did wrong and so on and so forth.

    I Guess that's what we mean "having limited abilities is strategical"

    Now lets see how it is to have more abilities and not just 5-10, to start with there is the strategical element described above, it's just that you ll be able to have more abilities active, rather than only 5-10... lets say you'll have 20... as i just said you have the strategical choice of abilities to this case aswell, another thing you gain here, is the strategical choice of what ability to use while fighting, why? simply because you ll have more than one abilities for any given situation, which means you ll have to decide what you have to use and what not, what you have to save and so on so forth.

    i think no1 can ever argue the above...

    A valid argument though, it would be that it is CERTAINLY easier for someone to play with 10 abilities and harder to play with 20 or above. That i accept and respect (not that i don't respect the rest).

    Always Friendly
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  18. Draogon

    Draogon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Wasn't a misunderstanding It's just in my experience games with limited action bars have far less abilities as a whole to work with. I mean look at gw2, its not exactly hard to work out what the best setup is for a character. Then look at eq2.

    Of course that might not be the case in WildStar but that's how I've felt in the ones I've played.
  19. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    On the other hand, look at GW1. That game had hundreds of abilities, some of which you had to hunt down and kill rare mobs to learn.
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  20. SirRobin

    SirRobin Cupcake-About-Town

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    It will really depends on how it plays in-game. I'm okay with the concept, it will depend on how well its executed.

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