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I'd like to take a second to talk about Boobs.

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Imafrakkincylon, May 31, 2013.

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  1. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    I see your point, if your explanation is how the workload would be for the devs. I'm not a fan of armor clipping and looking bad.

    I think smaller adjustments work fine though, as Joukehainen explains more. Also if you have a value set for character body type like -5 to +5 with 0 being the standard, then you can also extrapolate this to armor without as many clipping issues.
  2. Seagrey

    Seagrey Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is a fine example of customization. Thanks Joukehainen.

    I would be ecstatic if we could change body proportions in Wildstar.
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  3. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Downsizing is easier, but you also want to ensure armor and animations look good for the model. This is especially the case with robe-like armor as well as any armor which shows upper parts of the chest. (Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of scantily clad armor either, it kinda disrupts immersion...) But you say "just add a breast size slider and that's all." This would be more offensive I think to implement than leaving the art as is... If you got through making the perfect face and ears for your Aurin then all of the sudden you're playing with a slider that focuses only on your boobs. It depends on how many "body styles" we're talking here and how varied they are.

    It's likely as long as they have reductions in size from bodies that this won't be an issue, but then cloak type armor needs to change a bit and make sure it "hangs" correctly.

    I would hope Carbine tests every body style for every animation at the very least. Also, you have to ensure clipping doesn't happen, even with modern technologies and design tools it's possible by making slight variances. If you have long flowing cloak things especially. It really depends on how much time it'll take to ensure quality, because that's all I want out of it. That there are no quality issues due to checking every set being too hard to do with multiple body shapes. Same reason I'm glad they're only going with one weapon per class. All I'm saying is I'd be super disappointed if I learned that they had to take out thousands of armor sets due to adding sliders to the character creation screen for body type...

    If they can implement it and it won't effect variation and smoothness and quality of animations throughout the game, as well as not take too long, sure go for it, otherwise, go for a compromised breast size position if that's the artist's wishes. You're not going to get me to compromise the quality of animation and design due to one little thing in the beginning which you'll rarely ever notice and can be solved by choosing a different race... Sure it's neat to design your character just how you want, but really... those hours you spend making sure your face looks completely unique and awesome rarely ever matters as you only see it on the character select screen, and very rarely when playing...

    It's really just so you can personalize your character at the beginning and become attached to it during the creation process that customization is important. After that, if you can't change the way your armor looks from the next guy, you really won't notice...

    As long as it doesn't limit the possibility of visual variance due to armor and animations further or create animation quality issues, and doesn't add a lot of extra unnecessary workload to the designers, I'm fine with it. I completely understand wanting to customize your character, but think body shape hardly does this as compared to armor style...
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  4. Naunet

    Naunet Well-Known Cupcake

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    More offensive? Where in the world did you get that? No, I would be thrilled with a chest slider, because finally I could play a female character who isn't reduced to T&A.

    I'm feeling extremely sensitive about this subject right now, as I just got back from Denver Comic Con where there was a panel on body image in comics. You would think such a panel would be rather empowering for women, wouldn't you?

    Oh no. Every single panelist did nothing but shame anyone in the audience who spoke up with the opinion that women in comics are portrayed as objectified sex objects. They made fun of us. They told us it was our fault. That it was our responsibility to change our perceptions of the art, rather than for the artists to make an effort to portray women in stronger positions.

    The panel was so hurtful, I nearly left the session in tears, and that is not an exaggeration. But those people (four women and a man) are exactly why I fight so fervently for a better female representation in video games and comics. No one should ever be made to feel the way we were made to feel today.
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  5. Whatley

    Whatley Cupcake

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    Make em big enough so you know it's a woman, but not so big as to be a sex object (which is not what women are)
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  6. Seagrey

    Seagrey Cupcake-About-Town

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    No one should be belittled for their opinion. I'm proud that you spoke up and sorry you were treated so disrespectfully. Things just don't change unless folks speak up a bit...but there always seem to be a group of folks that are terrified of a change in the status quo ... the existing state of affairs.

    I want my daughters to have the opportunity to be more ... I can tell you right now that I'm very proud that they prioritize brains... over brawn or beauty...though they can claim beauty.

    Gaming is so much fun. I'd like my daughters to play Wildstar with me, but I really think they'll turn up their noses because they wouldn't be comfortable making a toon as they are currently portrayed.
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  7. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    I decided to forgo the chest slider, as the rest of this stuff is too delicate to speak on that subject...

    No, I think it should be indifferent... Because you shouldn't expect people to be able to run faster than a locamotive, or be a playboy martial artist that wears a cape at night, or someone who can speak to aquatic animals. I don't understand the relation... They're fictional characters. No one's expected to save the world, and if they were, they would want to at least look super-human so at least they had that going. (This goes equally for men and women.) The idea of super-heroes comes from roman sculptures where the medium is supposed to immortalize this being indisputably better than any human. That's why they're super. Otherwise they'd just be... heroes or... people...

    If you want to start pointing fingers it's probably marketing's fault... I don't like marketing either, it's skeevy stuff. Maybe more women artists need to be in comic books (not saying there are none) and this would help with the issue. Super heroes in real life are the stay at home parents that make their children awesome people without screwing them up, it's really hard to portray that in a comic book though... Comic books are supposed to take us away from reality, and be visually stunning. Capes get longer when super heroes jump off buildings to show animation, men are super ripped, and sure women's boobs defy gravity in them, but really, don't take it personally, it's not saying that anyone should be that way. Super heroes have super powers, that's what makes them cool, and that's what people care about.

    I agree that women are a little bit more "sexified" in comic books (especially current ones) but you know what my favorite comic book was? Well... graphic novel really... But it was Watchmen. And that had a naked blue dude in it... You think I got offended at his junk hanging out? Nope... Because he created his own world, and no one's able to do that. Again unrealistic body for an unrealistic person.

    They're equally offended that you're telling them that they draw bad. Try to see it from their perspective, they've got pressure of their publisher saying "You need to sell X copies or we're dropping you." Comic books are niche enough as is, they're not exactly the most popular thing ever, and it's hard enough to make a profit, let alone a living off of them. They have marketing telling them that "Your average buyer is a 12 year old boy." So sure, they've definitely got influences on it. Don't take it out on the artists, it's really hard to make a living as an artist. Take it out on the 12 year old boys. And really don't take it out on them either, take it out on their parents for not being super heroes that are understanding.

    I'm sorry if this comes off callous and not-caring, but I really do believe that artists (and people in general) to have a viewpoint, and if you don't like it, you should try to talk to them reasonably one on one about it and see if you can come to an understanding. This sometimes means meeting halfway, sometimes it means they're dumb and can't understand or bend to your viewpoint, and that's fine too. You don't have to put up with it, you can just walk away.


    Try looking at it from the artist's point of view, they probably started working for a comic book for peanuts trying to sell something that no one wanted for a while. In fact they probably worked a day job they hated while trying to create a masterpiece of a comic book that they were really inspired to do and really loved, only to be told by the marketing that it wouldn't sell so they had to make a rough decision to change some of the artwork to fit marketing's rules, and then they're being told by their so called fans that their work isn't good enough still. Imagine most parents (of which would probably be in somewhere between their 50's and 80's for these artists) and how they think of their offspring as comic book artists. Their parents probably aren't proud of them either, because it was trash in their day.

    I don't know what the comic book artists look like these days or their backgrounds, but I can't imagine most of them come from amazing families that they could just coast through life and have their books published no problem, no pressure. Life's too short and complicated to be upset about someone else's viewpoint...
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  8. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    For 12 year old boys any size is a sex object...
  9. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    This thread needs to be closed, all the posts at this point are flying direcly in the face of 3 mod warnings. Not to mention most posts on both sides now are flying dangerously close to flame bait.
    Nothing good will come from this.
  10. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Agreed.
  11. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    They possibly fault awkward or ashamed, and in doing so, turned the attention and topic back to the people speaking up. This is a common defense mechanism for those feeling guilty or being attacked also.

    If that isn't the case, they're all sheep and incredibly bought into that "poor" portrayal of people. They probably learned that that is what sells, being sellouts themselves. On the other hand, I would probably have to see some of the work of each of the Artists mentioned to really understand this.
  12. Huffle Puff

    Huffle Puff Cupcake

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    First female Chua spotted in beta!

    [​IMG]

    Kidding!

    My issue with the bosoms is not that some of them are big, but that all of them are big. There is not a lot of diversity in the female shapes compared to the male shapes. Looking at the Exiles, granok males are massive and grotesque, human males have the exaggerated builds of comic book heroes, and aurin males are slight and a bit more realistic in their proportions. However, it seems that all the females have the same waspish waists and huge spherical breasts, with the only real difference being how tall they are. You can see this in the NPCs as well, looking at the osun female shape versus the variety of male shapes seen in the dregg, eeklu, oghra, etc.

    Even if there are no body sliders in the character creation, Wildstar can do what WoW did and create choice by making the females of each race have distinctive figures. A large bust would look appropriate on a thick, buxom granok. A flatter chest would look appropriate on a lithe, waifish aurin. Humans could be somewhere in between--maybe give exiles a fuller girl-next-door figure, and cassians a more angular super-model figure.

    As it stands, I am anxiously awaiting the reveal of the final two races to see if the Chua (crosses fingers) can fulfill my desire to play a non-sexualized female character.
  13. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    <Mod Monocle> I'm sorry, but I feel the best choice of action is to simply lock the thread. I understand all the concerns and social plights, and I feel sympathy for those effected by it, but a Wildstar fansite is simply not the platform for this. It has become far too personal for some and I don't see much more constructive discussion occurring about the original topic.

    I believe enough has been said on this topic and hopefully the feedback will be seen by Carbine. </Mod Monocle>
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