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Is LFD on its way out?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by John, May 19, 2013.

  1. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    I was talking about heroic version of the dungeons of course :D Levelling dungeons should be "easy" to beat, for the lore, for the fun, to be worthy
  2. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    No, they absolutely should not.

    Leveling dungeons should introduce players to the game's mechanics and intentend dificulty, or else players reach level cap heroics and hit a unexpected brickwall

    Leveling dungeons should have a learning and dificulty curve that sets people up to how heroics will be.
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  3. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    You can't design leveling dungeon to be as hard as end game ones. Too many randomness in stuff and level of people. I m not saying to make them rollfaceable, just easier than a end game dungeon
  4. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are correct. But then there must be a jump in difficulty for the end game dungeons so they are much tougher from the very first and only get tougher later. Some brick wall is required as end game is for the hardcore players.
  5. mysticjbyrd

    mysticjbyrd Cupcake-About-Town

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    From the footage I have seen they keep saying they are going to increase the difficulty curse over time. In which case, each higher level dungeon should be harder than the last.


    The brick wall needs to be there regardless, otherwise normal dungeons aren't truly serving their purpose as a stepping stone. You should be forced to farm normals, before going into heroics.

    Then you should hit another brick wall when you try to enter into raiding.
  6. Ark

    Ark Cupcake-About-Town

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    Personally, i like the idea of having a range of difficulty in both normals and heroics. I liked the fact that some 5mans where easy, while others where much, much more difficult. I think a prime example of this is with the release of the 3 new 5mans to support ICC in wow.
    All three of those dungeons where a step up from other 5mans / heroics, but even then, there was obvious progression in difficulty even within the three new dungeons.
    Forge of Souls was extremely easy when done in current tier gear, or even with a semi orginized group, PoS required communication OR much better gear, and HoR ruined many, many 5mans by punnishing ANY player who refused to work with the team.

    Now obviously, these where not raids, so when we took 5 raid geared players in there, all on vent, we completely trampled them no worries at all. But when you leveled an alt to max lvl, got a few pieces and stepped in with randoms, it could be punnishing.

    So thats what i would like to see, difficulty that matches the rewards.
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  7. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    My point was that the brick wall cant be unexpected.


    This video pretty much sums my point up.
  8. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Answered in the Dungeon and Raiding section of the questions put forward for the US Arkship earlier this year:
    http://wildstar-central.com/index.php?threads/arkship-2013-community-questions-answered.1371/

    Other interesting reads about raids, raid sizes and difficulties:
    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/uplink_analysis_raid_sizes.php
    http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/what_is_wildstar_raids.php
    http://www.zam.com/story.html?story=31749
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  9. mysticjbyrd

    mysticjbyrd Cupcake-About-Town

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    Teaching people how to play before meeting larger challenges is important, and WS is doing that. But that isn't really what I am talking about. I am talking about gear checks.

    The brick wall is necessary in an MMO, as it forces you to farm gear, and slows down progression.
    You might also of course learn to play your class better too, but that is more of a side effect.
  10. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    Well yes, i can agree with that, the brick wall i meant that should not exist is the dificulty curve, it should not be a flat line with a sudden spike, like some MMO's are and how WoW used to be, dungeons and raids were too far apart from each other.
  11. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    As an avid Anti Dungeon Finder, I can only hope so.
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  12. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    The problem is difficult content breaks an automated LFD tool. If content is too difficult to PuG, then any player that has experienced the content will not PuG it, they will form a party of people that they think can complete the content. Thus, most of the people with the experience and success in the content will not be in the queue. Those without the experience will try the tool and have a horrible experience. People will not have the patience to wait for the knowledge/skill to filter through to the puggers or for the experienced players to have the gear/skill to carry the puggers, especially with the anonymous nature of the tool. Thus, you either keep the difficulty the same and have a tool that creates a bad experience for your new or casual players, potentially losing you players, or you nerf content to be puggable to make the new and casual play experience better. Sure we don't know what Carbine will do, but Blizzard nerfed the content and added more incentives to use the LFD tool, so it is a fear with a LFD tool.
  13. mysticjbyrd

    mysticjbyrd Cupcake-About-Town

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    Except the LFD doesn't break in that case. It makes people form teams to ensure they can complete the content. If they need some warm bodies to fill in those last spots, then LFD is the right tool for the job. The people queuing solo will hopefully end up with these partial groups, hopefully competent partial groups, because that isn't a guarantee. I have solo queued and joined a partial group of 3-4 really bad players, and it is usually not a pleasant experience.

    Mind you, this is exactly what Blizzard is doing!
  14. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    Sure, you could grab a warm body, but just grabbing a warm body here or there is really easy to do in chat or a non-automated tool, you don't spam LF1M dps for hours in chat, and getting that warm body within your server is a way to meet new people and form new connections. Also, if the content is difficult you won't grab that random warm body until you already outgear/skill it which will be later in the dungeon cycle meaning the early cycle is a just a <REDACTED>-shoot for a decent group. Getting into a group full of bad or toxic players is even worse when those bad or toxic players are a premade. I guess my biggest concern is about keeping difficulty, no developer would allow a LFR for even normal raid content, so if they are going to have a normal and hard mode for dungeons I hope you have to premade the hard mode. If they don't have hard dungeon content, I am fine with LFD because it will help me get dungeons on my alts easier.

    P.S. Where is Blizzard encouraging semi-premades to queue (honest question because I don't follow WoW closely anymore)?
  15. mysticjbyrd

    mysticjbyrd Cupcake-About-Town

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    Nonsense. A random guy from chat is no better than a random guy in the LFD tool. In WoW you can put people of different servers on your friends list, its not just the people on your server. Yet, I have never heard of a single person adding another person to their friends list from another server.

    You can meet random people for raiding as well though. In fact, there are many other avenues of meeting people in game! To simply blame the LFD tool seems juvenile. Its like blaming the referee for losing the game.
  16. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    Pretty much this.


    LFG/D is just the scapegoat of the month.
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  17. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    The random guy from chat you can see his class, his guild, you can see how he responds ("ME PLOX!!!!!!!" vs. "I will go, Esper"). You can also ask them if they have done it before if you would like experience (yes they could lie). I am not blaming LFD on the downfall of MMORPG society or that it is a server killer or anything, what I am worried about (as I have stated multiple times) is that the developers will adjust the difficulty of dungeons so that LFD groups can be successful, the additional incentive to network in-game is a bonus (hence "a way").
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  18. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    Its really a joke to not expect a LFG tool nowadays, when SWtoR said it was going to lunch sans dungeon finder all the forum warriors and biodrones (notably the same people who were anti inspection and anti parser which I don't think was a coincidence) hailed it as the greatest innovation ever.
    Then the actual players started playing at lunch and were shocked there was no dungeon finder so bioware had to add one. I can say from experience it was literally impossible to run a FP on an alt behind the leveling surge before the dropped a lfg tool.

    Irrespective of what people personally think of dungeon finders the idea that they're 'on the way out' is unrealistic, forum warriors do not represent the greater population (casual or hardcore) at all.

    EDIT; I think the whole difficulty issue is a wash to compare to WoW. WoW has the expectation that no matter who you are you will be able to complete and see all content which is a whole the dug themselves.
    So long as carbine sticks to their guns and says normal modes are to see the dungeon story heroics are a challenge and will stay heroics and they community is never given the nerfs the whine for and their are alternatives to grinding dungeons they won't expect to be able to clear the content they cannot do (eventually).
  19. mysticjbyrd

    mysticjbyrd Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are searching in chat. Unless you are doing something very popular at peak times, then you aren't going to be that picky, especially if you need a tank or a healer. A dps, then maybe. At non-peak times, doing some lowbie content or something, then even finding a dps might be hard.

    Furthermore, you can interview all you want, but the fact remains that guy is still a random player, and he could very well suck. And in that case you are damn near stuck with him. On the other hand, with the LFD tool you can easily boot them out, and find someone else easily.
  20. Zellfel

    Zellfel Cupcake-About-Town

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    The best thing about the LFD tool is it expands your choices of companions beyond normal means, even if cross-server LFD isn't implemented. There are plenty of times where people are looking for a group while not being in capital cities where they will see trade chat.

    Unfortunately there's always that chance you'll get the random derp from the group finder, as mystic said you could always boot them. Even with a group finder, I'd rather get people from the server I play on or the guild I'm in because it does help establish relationships. People from other servers do really just come and go.

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