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LFG Tool, a Poll

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Lyas Tyrell, Apr 5, 2013.

?

If you are trying to group with just your server, should it warp you to instance?

  1. Yeah, why not

    107 vote(s)
    46.3%
  2. No, it's my server I'll walk

    124 vote(s)
    53.7%
  1. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Overall, you're onto something, it's a good general idea to get players out in the world helping each other with soft incentives.

    Conversely, you could be a lowbie minding your own business and then there's a huge fight with 50 max level characters in your way, so you have to steer clear of the entire zone for a bit. I think it'd be interesting for the lowbie, because they have to avoid being collateral damage, while trying to quest. Again as long as they're not the target I don't see a problem with that.

    Agreed.

    Don't think of it as a "crutch" think of it as an "edge." I think it would be required before raiding for bleeding edge raiders, and they would simply save this before the raid every time. This means the entire spawn pool of the lowbie zones would periodically get decimated, as the kill rate would greatly increase, due to a large, above average group of players clearing the entire zone. It'd be hilarious to watch though.

    Mmm... not so sure here... If you get help on what's supposed to be an epic fight because some high level wanted their buff before raiding, you may not have noticed you just killed some very interesting mob. With how Wildstar implements quests on the fly you may actually miss out on neat experiences doing it with not a higher level person. I think it would be better for the lowbie to initiate asking for help, and if a higher level character comes to aid, they get some sort of buff. This way lowbies learn at their own pace, but when it's too difficult they can get some aid, which also rewards the higher level character.

    Hmm... I like that, don't know how it would work out in actuality. Also, a casual will likely not be more willing to bind somewhere that isn't closer to their content, as they are limited by time. Other players may though, and the general idea is worth testing. (In other words I think I agree and would love to see it tested)

    I think the binding bit isn't necessary, as it's likely to just be used for a quicker path to content or resources. This is how everyone will use them, as the buff is not enough to make/break a team. On the other hand, if you put necessary resource nodes all over the place, it's more likely to attract players of all types. I think resource nodes are a much better way for wPvP to break out, as it's the way that world pvp works in the real world. (That and religion or politics but please don't get into a religion or politics argument...)

    So, in the end, overall an interesting idea, though I don't think the binding would actually work out like it should. A system should be put in place to help lowbies though. If necessary resource nodes are spread across lowbie zones, and lowbies are able to ask for help for a buff, then the high level players will help them. I think it could be a buff to resource gathering and pvp buff, to both help the higher level characters gain in the end, and be able to and more likely to start PvP combat. Basically the reward for helping a lower player should outweigh just skipping by and collecting more nodes.
  2. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    The PVE one is a bit harder to figure out because it's not as cut and dry as PVP.

    When I say there needs to be a "seperation" I mean in terms of how we define PVEers. It's usually your playstyle that defines you as a Casual PVEer or a End Game/Raider PVEer.

    There needs to be something that gets people out in the world. The binding element spreads the action. I was thinking of maybe making it Path based but that leads to proximity issues because now you have to walk. That's why WOW's open-world PVP objectives failed("Pfft. I'm not going all the way over there!").

    If I can just teleport there I might be interested. Maybe they can make binding points and whichever controls the majority of them receive bonuses. PVPers can organize which ones they want to fight for to keep a cool buff for their faction and other incentives. The points are active for "X" amount of time. When that time is up Whoever controls it, controls it. There is a Area Buff and a Faction buff. You get the Area buff if your Faction controls that point. You get a Faction buff if your faction controls the majority of the points. There needs to be something else that's more PVP focused. A buff, from my experiences, doesn't hold people's attention long.

    The rotation does kinda keep the Raid guilds from forcing. Even if they did only certain members would be able to do it at a time. The buff is only 24 hours and asking a Raid member to grab it one day a week(based on a weekly rotation) isn't overkill.

    I do think that there are some people that would bind to areas because of how they looked. I was a huge fan of Theramore back in Vanilla. I always wished that they put an AH there(now it's gone lol). I dunno what it was. It just looked really cool to me at the time.

    I think the PVP version is on track. I am admittedly struggling to make the PVE work because the playstyle is a bit more broad. How do I make ALL them care?!!!! LOL

    The answer to that last question lies with those PVP bind points and somehow merging PVE with them or some sort of rewarded "mentoring" system.

    Edit: As much as I'm trying to keep Player levels out, I think level locks and requirements in this system could make "PVP Twinking" interesting. The downside is you'd have capped players griefing. A system with level requirements would mean all the points have to be instanced. Which defeats the purpose lol
  3. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    For PvP Carbine has mentioned that they're waiting to see what player location metrics look like before placing PvP objectives and World PvP incentives. This actually makes a lot of sense, because arbitrarily forcing players to locations make wPvP feel artificial and doesn't work out so well. I think the binding thing makes the world feel smaller and more of a lobby, just one better connected to the community. I.E. if you want world PvP press this button.

    Now, everyone wants end game resources. Everyone. People are out gathering them all the time. So, I think for PvP realms a buff that makes it more worthwhile to engage in wPvP or help someone than to just continue on collecting the next node. Something like a 2 minute buff which gives you 1.5 the amount of resources for each node, which stacks and adds +.5 to the amount of resources per node and caps at 3x. The buff would also give a stacking buff to PvP damage by like... 2% possibly, up to a total of 10%. This means it's continuously a good idea to engage in PvP combat and help players.

    The players would simply be able to ping for help, which would be a zone wide or an area ping that they need help on whatever, whenever they need a group. It would bring up a little message on the higher level's screen to let them know they have a chance to help that player. This doesn't force players out in the world, it engages the players already out in the world. It also means that the gatherers will benefit from interacting with the world instead of putting their blinders on for gathering nodes. I think this solution works for both PvE and PvP servers and players. It doesn't engage the ENTIRE community, but it's a start. Other similar systems can be put in place.
  4. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    What Carbine said makes sense. What's in bold Makes sense. People aren't going to just go out randomly fishing for people without an incentive. Being able to teleport to where the fighting is makes sense. That's why Battlegrounds work. That system is now being brought into the open world across the entire world. Those high End Raid Guilds will participate because they wanna flex. Rivalries will be born. Guilds will be at War. Great PVPers will get server notoriety like back in the old days.

    A system like this and intelligently deciding the proximity of faction sub-cities and hubs will bring open world PVP back.

    I like your resource idea but everyone would have to be a gatherer. We both agree that a buff makes people want to start trouble lol That's one of the keys towards making people want to PVP in the open world.
  5. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Actually the reason Battlegrounds work is because of gear. Without the gear to bait the hook, people lose interest fast generally, unless you're talking rated BG's.

    High End Raiders (on the whole) don't want to PvP, that's why they raid. If the buff is too small they won't come out to play, if it's too big they'll complain about being forced into PvP. High end raiders have enough to do in game to keep up on the edge of raiding. I think forcing them out into the world for other reasons is unfair frankly. They have to first raid continuously until they finally down the last boss, then they raid on alts and more alts and more alts so when the next content comes out they have more options for raid comps. They usually raid really hard and extensively play for a couple months then take off a couple months. (This is talking the top 1%) There's no reason to force them out into the world.

    What I'm saying is that one system simply doesn't motivate everyone to go for it. World PvP and World Interaction takes a lot of little systems. You make one for the gatherers that I suggested to get skirmishes to happened. Then like the WoW dailies, you put in an "extra roll" for boss loot if you helped X many people this week or fought in X number of wPvP battles or any mixture there-in. You don't want to have to force PvE-ers to PvP to be good at PvE. For pvper's it should just be fun as long as there's wPvP actually happening and they don't have to go searching too thoroughly for it, or make it. Possibly that same system that's in place to go help lowbies is in place to go help with a skirmish.
  6. Macheya

    Macheya New Cupcake

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    That Lesser/Greater coin thing got real old, real quick. It was pure grind, and adding it here doesn't sound like the greatest thing ever.



    You don't want to force PvE players into anything, otherwise it creates additional requirements for raiding (same goes for PvP, in vanilla WoW raiders were the best PvP players because the best gear was raid gear). Take Wrath of the Lich King. Engineering was required for Icecrown Citadel raiding because of the grenades (and the unfortunate bug that resulted from that on the Arthas fight). That meant to be on the cutting edge, you needed to take up a profession you may not have wanted because it would be a siginificant DPS increase.

    Adding things into the world shouldn't stem from 'we need people to do this'. Instead it should flow naturally, something like 'Hey, there's a lot of action at this node, what can we do to make things around there more interesting?' Vanilla WoW and BC showed that people will go out for their own reasons. The problem isn't getting them out there, it's giving them reasons to stay, that aren't as binary as 'raid/pvp buff'.

    If Vanilla/BC were any indication, just improving your character is enough incentive for most players to go out and see what the world has to offer. It was only during the tail-end of Wrath of the Lich King and through to Cataclysm/Mists of Pandaria (barring the insane amount of rep grinding you have to do in MoP now) that kept most people down to 'once-a-week logins' (though Tier 9 raids also contributed to that).
  7. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    Well for wow, at least in Van/BC, some of the highest ranking PvE guilds were on Pvp servers, which also happened to be some of the highest populated servers in wow too. ( Mal'Ganus ) I think I spelled that right -

    :cautious:

    This last part, I don't quite understand your meaning.
  8. Macheya

    Macheya New Cupcake

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    Sorry, I got sidetracked by memories. I was saying that WoW and BC were good for open-world integration, where people would go out and do things. Whereas in Wrath of the Lich King and the later expansions, the boring/bad raids like Trial of the Crusader and the implementation of LFD made a lot of raiders so bored/annoyed they only raided one night per week, and only logged on that day to prepare, raid, and then not log on until the next week.

    In their defense, Ulduar was a tough act to follow in terms of a good raid.
  9. Chosenxeno

    Chosenxeno Cupcake-About-Town

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    TOGC was the best(The best is a stretch but it ws very underated). No Trash. Just kill bosses. A couple of the hardest fights in WOW history(at the time) were in here haha There were quite a few guilds with Heroic LK down, but not Heroic Anub(until nerfs).

    I think TOGC gets a bad rep because it's associated with the class tokens started showing up and the "Welfare Epics" system was introduced.
  10. Macheya

    Macheya New Cupcake

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    The main reason I saw it being bad was because Tier 9 armor looked absolutely terrible, and this was when they introduced the different difficulties (normal 10/25, heroic 10/25). That, in addition with being all bosses and no trash, plus the idiotic PvP battle in the middle, made it just a slog, whereas Ulduar was lauded as a magnificent raid the tier before (I think, I don't recall where Ulduar came in).

    Anyway, opinions aside I only mentioned ToC/ToGC because that was when the 'once per week' thing really took hold for a lot of guilds and, with LFD, really took the game from an open world to a lobby.
  11. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Except the grind becomes helping players in the community and going out into the community instead of dailies. I agree it shouldn't be attached to dailies, but something like helping 10 players a week, or kill 10 players of equal level a week I don't think is too much to ask. Maybe not dropping loot, that becomes mandatory, but maybe you only get a chance at a certain mount that drops somewhere if you do it? I'm talking very little effort to implement something that'll make players help other players or on a PvP server to actually engage in PvP combat. Not dailies. And these points can stack up, so if you go out into a huge battle and kill 100 people one day, you don't have to do it again for 10 weeks.

    Edit: Also, not talking hardcore raiders, I'm talking the raiders who are more casual about it that might get through the first set of content on normal by the time the next content comes out.
  12. TeoH

    TeoH Well-Known Cupcake

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    So players only logged in once a week to raid, and the reason you're proposing for players not doing content in the world and only wanting to log in and raid, is that raids were boring, and that the raid gear didn't look impressive enough.

    I'm not sure that you have a very compelling argument.

    Ulduar was a good instance, Icecrown was a good Instance, ToC was a stop gap but it was at least a challenging stop gap. With the Achievements system and associated fluff rewards for exploring, factions with gear rewards and linked open world dailies, Wintergrasp, and a large number of lore related quest content still left over by the time you hit cap, WotLK arguably has a lot more open world content than Vanilla.

    Ultimately, the bulk of the 'open world' content in Vanilla/TBC came down to gathering mats, killing mobs for cash and levelling fishing. You could make the case that without any major cash grinding goal like the epic mount/flying mount, people had fewer reasons to go out and grind mobs for cash in WotLK, but if you asked players if they enjoyed going out and grinding mobs in fields for cash you probably wouldn't get a favourable response.

    I think it's far more likely that after 4 years of playing the game, the novelty of killing bears in fields for money was wearing rather thin, and given the option of doing the dungeon content, BG and arena content, dailies raids and open PvP zone instead, most players decided they'd rather be doing something else they enjoyed more.

    9 Years ago I remember grinding Scarlet mages near Hearthglen for hours hoping for a Crusader enchant recipe drop that could be sold for significant cash. These days, I don't find that kind of experience particularly enticing.
    Chosenxeno and Rumze like this.
  13. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    If it's same server going to the dungeon entrance is great because it can be a huge meeting/greeting area for people looking for either groups or people to level with longer term/ guilds.

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