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Limitations on the Engineer class and an idea for it.

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Extatica, Feb 7, 2014.

?

How do you want to fill in your Engineer class?

  1. With both pets

    11 vote(s)
    27.5%
  2. With no pets at all

    13 vote(s)
    32.5%
  3. With 1 pet

    4 vote(s)
    10.0%
  4. I'll have to look what the most effective is

    12 vote(s)
    30.0%
  1. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    - First off this is a discussion thread AND an idea thread, your opinion may not be along mine or others but please respect eachother.


    Oke, so in WildStar everyone has the option to fill their LAS-bar out of a pool of 30 abilities
    10 assault
    10 support (tank/heal)
    10 utility

    With these abilities you can put some on your LAS-bar in order to create combinations. There are a lot of possibilities to create those combinations and almost everyone can make the same amount of combinations (not talking about if they are effective or not).
    All but.....THE ENGINEER!!!!!

    Why do I say this?

    The engineer got 4 abilities that got a limitation on them, these are:
    Artillery Bot
    Bruiser Bot
    Diminisher Bot
    Repair Bot

    All these abilities have that one sentence that puts a limitation on the entire class:
    And specially if you want to play the Engineer class as a completely pet free class, this way you can effectively only pick out of 26 abilities instead of 30 (not including that the total amount of effective AMP's you can put points in would be less as a non-pet engineer aswell).

    Now you can say things like ''it's you own choice to be a non pet engineer''. Yes, that's true.
    But Carbine has said that they want to create the engineer class as a class that can be played just as well without pets, ''just as well'' doesn't that mean they should have acces to 30 abilities to make up their combinations aswell?

    I personally think so. I personally think they should add things so a non pet engineer can have just a much options as a pet engineer.

    What do you think? What are you personal prefferences? How will you be playing your Engineer class? With pets or without?



    I would like to see some changes being made to the bot abilities so that they can be effective for non pet engineers aswell.
    My idea:

    You have 4 extra 3-4 point AMP's named:
    Robotic bruiser enhancements
    Robotic artillery enhancements
    Robotic diminisher enhancements
    Robotic repairing enhancement

    Once you've put a point in one of these AMP's you can put that Bot ability on your bar but its effect would be changes to being an enhancement to you.

    Aka:
    Robotic bruiser enhancements = Robotic shoulder pads
    Robotic artillery enhancements = Shoulder cannons
    Robotic diminisher enhancements = robot arms near the waist
    Robotic repairing enhancement = healing station on your back
    (or something along those lines)

    Instead of summoning a bot on your side you get a robotic enhancement giving you certain effects (a bit less then those of the bots because bots can be destroyed and need to be controlled by you).

    But this may just be my love for the engineer class and trying to make them have more options :D
    Cause TBH....who doesn't want to have freaking shoulder cannons? ;)
    [​IMG]
  2. eharper256

    eharper256 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hear ya. I was way more interested in the idea of a class that walks around in the exo-suit with the cannon rather than the pets, which is partly why I've mostly switched to either a Warrior or Esper now since the Engi livestream and the reveals of the LAS on WSBase.
    Extatica likes this.
  3. Zap-Robo

    Zap-Robo Administrator • King Cupcake

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    Just for point of reference, you can actually have all four bots (I assume - I can do three at L15) and use the special abilities. You just can only have two out at any one time. Since they all have individual cooldowns I can actual see a potential use case for having all four slotted (cycling around between them as they get destroyed).

    The summon is an instant ability, so a quick double tap on an ability can trigger the bot ability.

    It's a fun idea but I can't see it having any chance of being implemented at this late stage (but what do I know - a few devs could pull all-nighters and make it happen if there was call for it)
    Crock and teh_ninjaneer like this.
  4. Micromadsen

    Micromadsen New Cupcake

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    Couldn't this be fixed by adding a "sacrifice" ability? Granted I don't know a whole lot about WS (yet) because I've been trying to stay away from streams and similar revealing information.

    But what I mean is that by sacrificing (I need a different word but can't think of any sorry:() your current artillery bot you get a cannon on your shoulder (or something) instead which then would work like in your example.

    (Just realised that this was very much similar to what you said. But what can I say, I would love to play as the Engineer but I don't like pet classes.)
  5. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Well ofcourse I know that, but it's not even near efficient in Raiding or PvPing.
    Specially if you see what those abilities are.

    Also it doesn't change the fact that people that want to play the engineer without pets still have less abilities (unfortunately).

    But it's also just a dream :D I mean FREAKING shoulder cannons :up:

    Mayby ''converting''???
    Your bot converts into a Mech-piece.


    But indeed wouldn't it be awesome?
    Micromadsen likes this.
  6. Micromadsen

    Micromadsen New Cupcake

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    YES! That's what I was looking for. Your bot converts itself into a part of your armor. :D

    But yea I would definately play that. And honestly thought that was the case to begin with, and not the pet class that the Engineer has become. :(
  7. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Hm...a Bruiser Bot could convert itself into a shield that increases your defense rating and reduces incoming damage. Just the thing for a tanky Engineer. Ooh! An Artillery bot converts itself into a bazooka! Just what a DPS engineer needs. At this point, the bot is not a 'bot' anymore. So why not remove them as a count to the 2 bot limit list.
  8. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Good idea :up::p
  9. Benzecry

    Benzecry Cupcake-About-Town

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    As for the poll question, I will always use what works. I like themes and ideas and that is how I will pick a class...but...I will just use what works best. Quite often when someone is thematically awesome it is practically worthless. I like an even median but practical will always trump pretty to me. To this extent I also think the combining super robot man might not happen for optimization reasons. Part of beating an engineer could be disconnecting line of sight between that bot and the engineer + you. If you have all the power in one spot then it might have to be less powerful to compensate. It might also go from a bot that heals people around you, to just healing only you. Which instead they could just do by giving you a self heal. For the last bit, I think non-pet engineers do have as many choices. Limited action sets, pick your fight, you won't even have everything as a pet or non-pet engineer.

    Edit: After reading again I just think you want engineers to be mechas...I'm on to you. :cautious:
  10. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Explain, since if we do the math having 4 abilities less do bring up a way lower amount of possible combinations/choices.

    So why would yuo say that the math is wrong? What proof do you have? Please explain how you get the same number of choices/combinations with less abilities! :p:p:p
  11. Benzecry

    Benzecry Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because you count the bots as "pets." The devs stated they aren't really pets. They are abilities like any other to be used as if it were just a skill. So discounting them is flawed to me. Either you use them like any other ability because they work, which is what I'd do. Or you completely avoid them because your hyper anti-pet..which is silly. Or finally you don't use them because they aren't very effective...which would suck.

    Edit: To me they are more like shamans as far as being a pet goes. GW2 did the same thing for turrets and what not, you had to place them down from your limited action set and they had extremely limited control. It is just a different way to do an ability to me.
  12. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    You don't count them as pets? What is your deffinition of a pet then?
    Cause to me as soon as they have command options (follow, stay, move, attack) and different stances (passive, aggresive, follow etc.) and an activated ability they can be considered as pets.
    Why is it silly? Some people just don't like pets at all, and Carbine said they want you to be able to play both (with and without bots) just as good.

    Edit: you just edited your post, but then I want to say my first thing in captations! Totems and those turrets never had the command options that those bots have...I can't even see how they even get close to that.....they have more in common with pets (since they are) then the turrets/totems you speak of.
  13. Benzecry

    Benzecry Cupcake-About-Town

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    Starting with the good with as without and the less available choices: You have the choice to avoid bots, just like any stalker has the choice to avoid tether or stun or what have you. You can't make people use anything and if they are unwilling to use something because they "don't like pets" then don't play that class! Engineers are just as effective without pets, just like a warrior would be just as effective ignoring all his tank nature and going full ham, its about choice. If you want to choose one way you have to give up another, no one gets everything.

    And that kind of brings me to my point about it not being really pets. You have the choice to use them or not. You have no choice to use a pet or not for pet classes. That is the essence of a pet class to me, reliance on co-operation with your secondary unit. For activated abilities totems in wow had abilities you could proc based off your totems. These have changed and been worked around in and out throughout the game, but the most prevalent being the expanding ring of fire from your fire totem. The turrets as well had a secondary overload ability that you had to activate. Having stances is essential to any minion, pet, or secondary unit because of the ill nature of full aggro NPCs.. omg my bot pulled world boss QQ -dead-.

    And again it is silly because if you know you hate any form of thing following you then don't pick a class that has it. If you are bound and determined to play an engineer with no bots then I'll tell them the same as I'd tell a medic bound and determined to never use any form of healing. "Whatever you wanna do you silly man/woman." You chose it, you deal with it, entitlement shouldn't exist in a game I hope you believe. Because we can go back to WoW for entitlement BS.
  14. Bnol

    Bnol Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is the same as an Esper wanting to heal without using targeted heals, or a medic not wanting to use fields or probes. One of the core parts of the Engineer class is pets. Sure, pets are a more divisive mechanic than those other examples, but player have to choose what is most important to them in choosing a class. Yes, players that want to limit themselves based on desired playstyle, but play a class that has that playstyle will have limited options.

    The issue with your pet-armor idea is balance. If the armor is not better than other abilities or the bots themselves, it will never be used. If the armor is more powerful than other abilities (whether or not they are more powerful than bots) then they are required on your LAS.
    teh_ninjaneer likes this.
  15. xShinji

    xShinji New Cupcake

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    Personally, I think bot are especially useful for levelling, and it deal lots of extra damage or take damage for you. In scenario where you need to dodge alot, you would probably need bots to deal constant damage or maybe even deal with the adds easily.
  16. Spaceman Spiff

    Spaceman Spiff Cupcake

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    Aren't the bots abilities? They do damage, protection and so fourth. How are you down any abilities if you deside not to use pets? They fill in the extra dps, utility or what have you or you can use something else.
  17. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    im going to go petless. i loved hunter in wow but the pets just seemed clunky have the time if you werent in beast spec. i dont see a "beast" spec for wildstar so i dunno.
  18. Ianpact

    Ianpact Cupcake-About-Town

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    Totally off topic but when fishing comes about, I hope to have a class "racial" fishing bot. :p
  19. calebrus

    calebrus Cupcake-About-Town

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    My Slinger doesn't like healing. I can haz 10 new abilities to replace them? I mean, this way I effectively only pick out of 20 abilities instead of 30.
    No?
    Well, I guess that's fine. I'll just ignore healing. Just like an anti-pet Engy will ignore pets.
    That was a bit tongue in cheek, but the point remains. You said it yourself in the line that I poached. You get to *pick* from that pool. Which means choice. The pool of choices hasn't been reduced, only your interest in those choices. But that's why the choice exists in the first place.
    Giving Engy 4 more abilities to replace the ones that you don't personally like effectively gives them 34 choices to everyone else's 30.
    How would that be fair?
    Deadmeat likes this.
  20. THIS AURINS ON FIRE!!!!!!

    THIS AURINS ON FIRE!!!!!! Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm guessing you don't like cats much either:confused:?

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