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looking for ideas on internal systems allowing guild members to keep management in check.

Discussion in 'Guilds, Circles and Warparties General' started by skofan, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. skofan

    skofan Cupcake

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    ive been toying with the idea of creating a semi open guild focused on improving, and promoting community both internally, and server wide, with a transparent management structure. and have started formulating the purpose and rules of the guild to see if it is actually doable.
    im looking for input on how to create a system that allows members to keep management in check, while not being to easy to abuse.

    any input would be appreciated.
  2. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    For me such system already exists!

    In my most fun and the best guild i've been in we had the following:

    1 GM (ofcourse)
    4 Elders (they were those that made raids and other guild events happen)
    x amount of Class leaders (depends on game and on how many classes in that game)
    Members (They raid from time to time)
    Casuals (They never really raided)
    Alts
    Newps (new guys we called them Newps)

    Before something was changed the GM and the Elders discussed it, then when they agreed or not they called the Class leaders for a second opinion. In our case our 13 headed ''council'' would agree on something and they changed it.

    Then EVERYONE had insight on the guid finances so everyone could see who use what etc. But only those 13 had acces to the guild bank, but because everyone could see what they used you could ask them why they did something with an X amount of gold.

    Next the leaders just need to ask feedback from guildies.

    My previously guild was PERFECT! And if someone didn't liked it well he could try to change it since our leaders were always open to suggestions. Or the last option /leaveguild and join another.

    I don't think a special system would be needed if you are in a good guild!

    And if management abuse their power.....well i don't think the guild lasts for long.

    But then again i haven't been in guild with such leaders on top. No real ''good'' and respecting raiding guild would do something like that. Just look for a respectfull guild, that's all in my opinion.

    But GL anyway on the idea because it's gonna be a hard one since almost everything is easily abussable ;)
  3. Ceodoc

    Ceodoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    "Let them eat cake"!

    Doc <Overlord Despot>
  4. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    Bang on Doc. Too many Cookes spoil the broth.
  5. TheJedi

    TheJedi New Cupcake

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    The ultimate management tool is gquit . Seriously as long as people allow others to bully themselves .. then sadly folks will find themselves in bad situations in guilds. IF they follow the chain of command and realize the leaders of the guild don't care.. they need to show more backbone and leave. FAST.

    I have spoken to so many people who left prior guilds only after enduring months and months of abuse.. .. all because they didn't want to spend the time looking for a better guild. Or for some reason they didn't respect themselves enough to realize they deserved better.
  6. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    You could run a democratic guild, votes for leader and officer positions, though this requires a f*ck tonne of blind faith, however, you do want pure transparency.

    I've done similar for officer positions before (when someone steps down, think USA supreme court), but never for GM/"Upper" Management, you can't allow mutinies in guilds (think of all the real world additions like server costs and web admin etc), if things are that bad, people should leave and form their own guild.
  7. skofan

    skofan Cupcake

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    i get the point where democracy in its usual form simply isnt a real viable option for a guild, hence im trying to create a system that allows for the members to turn down bad decisions, as well as having the option to discipline officers should they get out of hand.
    the transparancy part is mostly ment as: in example. the officer forums will be viewable by all members, but only open for posts from officers. hence members will be able to follow the process of decision making, and have toe option to leave should they not like the way it is done.
    as for democracy part coming into play, im thinking about something like: only the gm will be able to nominate people for officer duty, after that the members can cast a vote on their opinion of the individual being officer material. and: major decisions will be cast to a vote amongst officers, before being implemented.
  8. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I think you could definitely run on "crowd" nominated and elected officers, that takes out the issue of "the GM only promotes his friends" complaints you may get. You'll then have people call it a popularity competition if your guild becomes quite big.

    As for the forums, I'm not so sure - I've used my officer forums to build preliminary tactics, discuss player performance and applications and other ideas for our guild that would benefit from mass debate until they are fully thought through. You may have people constantly butting in with their own ideas - normally an great thing don't get me wrong! However, when 25+ are all throwing ideas around before any path has really been set, then you just have too many chefs and it becomes chaos!
  9. skofan

    skofan Cupcake

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    that is the whole point of making them "read only" for members, they should be allowed to monitor what their officers do, but not to interfere before a decision has been made. it would probably have to include a rule about not being allowed to post threads on the member forums about officer threads without a "finished" stamp.
  10. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Yes but the conversation will spread in-game and on voice, then you'll just seem like a bit of a d*ck for constantly telling people to stop.
  11. skofan

    skofan Cupcake

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    true, maybe just let them talk all they want, but disallow them to bother officers with it?
  12. Chomag

    Chomag Cupcake-About-Town

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    In all my 8 years old wow career I have met only one guild I truly liked. It was pretty much a democracy, we decided WHAT we would want to do and the guild leaders established HOW it's gonna happen. Personally, I'm very picky with my peers and am hard to impress, but I liked this guild and that says a lot.

    The guild disbanded at the start of Failaclysm as many people quit wow. Ah, good old Angelis Vindictae from Ravenholdt EU. *sob*
  13. Jojin

    Jojin Cupcake-About-Town

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    The only enjoyable guild for me is one which doesn't really have an enforced leadership. It is always one in which we are all responsible and mature individuals working together inside a game.

    Leadership comes into play based on tasks being done at any given time. People naturally look at that person as the point man/woman or organizer for what we are doing. So it isn't always the same person, normally just the person who is best at it in the group.

    Any structured guild always has way to much drama as those who are imposing the rigid structure tend to be power hungry or perceive themselves as special because they are a 'Guild leader'. The resultant normally involved extreme clicks and favoritism. Not to mention lots of people love to manipulate things by sending private message to leader roles to tell on or just make up stuff about someone else they might not like.

    In it it becomes it's own political game, which might be enjoyable for some. After years of dealing with it, I prefer to just avoid it and enjoy games with other independent, respectful, mature, and generous people. In this setting the arguments are normally everyone trying to pass to another, versus everyone being greedy and trying to take.
  14. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    It honestly sounds like you've been in some terrible guilds. I for one would hate to be in a 'shared responsibility' type scenario. Just gimme a strong and fair personality to get behind and we're sorted.
  15. Ceodoc

    Ceodoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    But you can never have enough "Cookies"
    ;p
  16. Bisqquit

    Bisqquit "That" Cupcake

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    Cool sig.
  17. Alverad

    Alverad Well-Known Cupcake

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    If that could be done, we'd all have awesome governments ;)

    I honestly believe most people can't handle democracy - too many want to abuse the system in the name of personal freedom, completely forgetting group goals. I'm on the other spectrum from the poster above - I have never seen a large guild function well, and be succesful for continuous amount of time, without strong leadership. That works in small communities, with a bunch of rational, mature people. When you're aiming at hundreds of members, you need rules and strong management. Last thing one would like to see, is in-game time being spent on politics instead of just having fun;) If you even hint 'teh power of the majority' to the people, you can almost be sure, groups will start forming at a first dissatisfaction at even a minor, insignificant decision up top.

    I think you can run a big guild succesfully having enough dedicated people that are willing to take lead and cooperate among themselves - rational, smart, fun, preferably charismatic too;) From my own experience, picking officers that you know will not be intimidated, and will stand up to you if it's needed; is the best way of keeping the leader(s) in check. Pick ones that you respect, and that are liked/respected by others, choose them on community merits not personal preferences only, and you're almost there.
  18. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    It depends on how much faith/trust you have in guild members I guess hehe.

    You could go with a well documented complaints procedure so everyone is clear on how to deal with complaints.
    For adjudication you could have a sort of jury/tribunal system pulled from your member base.

    I doubt that would work for huge guilds though simply due to member reliability being inversely proportional to guild size :p (unless you're really lucky or have godlike recruiters).

    If you're expecting abuse of the system then you probably don't have the members you can rely on to make something along those lines workable anyway.

    For smaller guilds it's generally better (or simply less hassle) to just talk things over (assuming people are mature about it).

    Other than that maybe simple escalation procedure (member issue = dealt with by officer, officer issue = dealt with by GM)?
  19. skofan

    skofan Cupcake

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    ok, so after consideration, ive decided that running a guild is not for me. the management i would want, isnt doable with the amount of work i can put into it.
    feel free to continue the discussion though, and thanks for the help :)
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Cupcake-About-Town

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    Difficulty in running a guild greatly depends on what you want from your guild. I was in a high pop social guild, and later in a low pop raiding guild. The raiding guild wsa pretty much what you expect when you hear "hardocre raiders," but the casual was much more interesting.

    It was a blissful dictatorship. One guy was in charge. One. But he almost completely stayed out of the way doing his own thing, on rare occasions suggesting ideas on a larger guild focus. But the people who ran the guild on a day to day basis were pretty much self elected. They took personal responsibility for helping the community and creating group content. They kinda reported to the GM on occasion, just to make sure everything was 'cool' with him.

    I loved it, and it worked great for a casual/social guilding because most people in a social guild are the "follower" archetype. They're not dumb people, but by and large they joined the guild to see what others were doing. If you've been in one of these guilds, you know how it works. Gchat is a wasteland, then one person speaks up "wanna do X dungeon?" and bam gchat explodes and 20 guildies are organized and having fun the rest of the night.

    So long as those top go-getters feel responsible for enforcing and most importantly embodying the guild policies, I have yet to see this fail, even though riots will and do happen. When it fails it's because the GM doesn't step up and ban-hammer/reprimand when a rising 'leader' is a jerk. If that guy gets a big foot hold people leave.

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