My 2 biggest concerns with WS are,

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by FairyTailisBack, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. Wacco

    Wacco New Cupcake

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    In games that I have played that were FTP with cash-shop there were always auctions or stallers that were selling the items that they had bought for RL money for in-game gold. If the game had lotto boxes or strong boxes there were always stallers selling them and, or the keys to unlock them.
    Other sellers would buy large amounts of box/lottos and open them and then sell the rare mounts/jewels, pets, ect.., for in game gold. And if there were fashion items in cash-shop then there were stalls that sold those too.
    I do not see CREDD being really any different than these type of cash-shop transactions, other than even if you buy CREDD with illegal gold Wildstar still makes some profit as the CREDD had to be bought from them for $20.
    I find in games that the mad boxer who runs gathering bots and floods the market with matts tends to break the economy and break player balance more than any buyable game play content does. But I never care about being super rich or head of class the way others might so I am aware I am only seeing part of the spectrum on the issue.
  2. Roadblock

    Roadblock Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's a rather mild way of putting it :) but won't argue the point, still waiting for those needed clarification(s).
    Because without them this infographic is about as useful as the ad flyers stuffed in my mailbox.

    For One
    [​IMG]something missing?

    For Two
    From the information actually given on the infographic.
    - It takes Broffesional 30 days to get near Elder Game (level cap).
    - It takes HigginBottom 30 days to get to the level where he can ride a mount but his normal play doesn't generate enough gold to afford it.
    - One low level mount costs about as much as one month of gametime. (a pile of gold)
    Is that about accurate? I mean if we take it at face value and it's such a solid reference.

    For Three
    Stat-based items will be double-gated behind both gold and content-based mechanisms so CREDD can "only" remove the gold gate. And this is good why?

    Finally
    I have asked specific questions here and here (fair warning: humongous walls of text)
    Excerpt.
    Specifics.
    Not "solo earns, group spends".
    The infographic you referenced tells us that casual Higginbottom (can we assume he's mostly soloing?) doesn't even earn enough to buy his first mount by the time he levels to unlock it.
  3. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I thought this is what people want, C.R.E.D.D gives the infusion of cash to buy consumables/big spends etc but without removing the "earnt it" part of the loot. So say there's a BoE epic for 80gold on the AH, I can buy it with all my C.R.E.D.D cash, but then I still need "Exalted" to use it.
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  4. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I was thinking in the context of where he said it, it was more like the reputation from BT, where you earn that rep by doing the raid itself and then you can purchase something from the BT rep vendor, which should be bound to you at that point, so no AH.
  5. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Items will still have requirements(rep/achievements) this what i remember when they spoke specifically about solo loot.

    Also loot that can be bought will always be inferior and never fully BiS for anything but the start of the first tier or they'll require that much raid mats that makes it expensive and it will only be for a single slot.

    And beyond that solo loot will not only be inferior it will also miss the stats wanted in other parts of the game. I highly doubt you'll see people raiding 40 mans in solo gear for long.
  6. CRB_J-Tal

    CRB_J-Tal Carbine Studios

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    Our three progression paths are Solo/Small Group, Raiding, and PvP.

    PvP has two stats necessary to be your most optimal in PvP (basically PvP Offense - deal more damage to players, and PvP Defense - take less damage from players) such that if you are playing against someone in non-PvP gear (say, they try to bring in raid gear), you are dealing more damage to them and taking less damage from them - while they take bonus damage from you and deal less damage to you.

    Raiding also has stats necessary to be your most optimal in the raid. Strikethrough (Hit - DPS), Deflect Critical (Defense - Tank), and Recovery (Mana/Focus Regen - Healer). These are pretty-much-required to be an effective raider.

    Solo/Small Group doesn't really need any stats other than the base stats to be effective. You'll need far less Strikethrough, Deflect Critical and Recovery than you would in raiding. This allows us to tune the solo gear to be more effective for soloing while lacking key stats necessary to raid.

    So we can make three unique and separate progression paths for different types of players.
    PvP Gear has PvP stats
    Raid Gear has Raid stats
    Solo Gear has Base stats

    There will always been some overlap - (Crafted PvP gear, a really awesome world drop that has a ton of Hit on it, Raid gear still effective for soloing, etc.) - but it should mitigate a lot of the issues inherent with a Raiding/Soloing/PvPing MMO itemization plan (i.e. getting Solo gear that's better than Raid gear, getting Raid gear that's better then PvP gear, getting PvP gear that's better than Raid gear).
  7. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    Thanks for a bit more details on stats, i wonder for DPS let's say you speak of strikethrough as hit and dps. Does that mean that hit beyond a greater chance to hit it also has it's purpose in solo such as translating into more DPS or is excessive strikethrough just a wasted stat there?

    Or am i simply looking it too much at it in the form of the classic hit formula and there are more things involved.

    Going to be interesting to see how much defense we need to stack again on tanks and how that translate in lower levels tanking. When trying to level up (leveling up just with tank gear generally is fairly brutal, at least when leveling solo and i expect you can't grind dungeons from start to finish without missing a lot of crucial upgrades to carry you over the level gaps between dungeons.)


    And final remark, one i made before did you think about baking in the defensive PvP stat so that the entry gear level to PvP is more forgivable and it can counter some low level PvP issues.
    As it's something mmo's are doing now, while they lack the match making system it's unavoidable i believe to not be matched up against players better geared than you are. Unless there are enough people doing PvP and this pretty much goes hand in hand in making it easier to get in, in the sense of more enjoyable to PvP.

    As Blizzard has seen that both an offensive and defensive PvP stat created yet a still to big gear gap. Wonder what your take is on that.
  8. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    Any comments on how you plan to make solo gear more effective for soloing than as example high end raiding gear? You only mentioned that you need less Striketrough, Deflect Critical and Recovery but you didn´t quite mention what kind of a stats would the solo gear be getting instead to distinquish it to be the superior one for the content it´s meant for.
  9. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    there is no way to do that, as said in all the other threads before, the best way is to just put a restriction on gear level for entering the instance.
  10. Flinder

    Flinder Cupcake

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    If one assumes that "Strikethrough" overcomes "Deflect Critical", then Raid mobs could have tons of both on them. But solo mobs don't. Your raid-oriented weapon, with lots of Strkethrough wouldn't have much to strike through when you use it against a solo-grade mob. Because solo mobs don't have much Deflect Critical.

    Meanwhile a solo weapon could have, instead of a bunch of Strikethrough, just plain stat buffs that enhance damage. But without the Strikethrough, it wouldn't penetrate on a raid mob.


    The same principles could be applied to player Armor. So raid mobs would score tons of crits on somebody in solo armor.
  11. Roadblock

    Roadblock Cupcake-About-Town

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    He did say "base"/"primary" stats for Solo.
    If we have something like itemlevels with a specific stat budget then equal itemlevel items with different focus would have a different allocation of primary/secondary stats.

    Example:
    Solo Piece: +10 Brutality + 10 Grit (20 points stat budget)
    Group PvE Piece: +8 Brutality +10 Grit +2 Crit Deflection/Strikethrough (20 points stat budget)
    PvP: +8 Brutality +8 Grit +2 PvP Power +2 PvP Offense (20 points)
    I'm oversimplifying obviously.

    Then Solo Piece cannot translate its +2 Brutality to more DPS in a raid setting because it lacks +Strikethrough or its 10Grit because it lacks +Crit Deflection which are needed when facing raid / dungeon creeps.
    Group PvE Piece lacks a bit on base stats and secondary stats are "wasted" on open world creeps, so it's relatively weaker for solo activities.
    PvP piece... you get the idea.
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  12. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    J-Tal him self said that solo gear should be more effective for soloing. More effective than Raid Gear, as he also says you need less Strike Trough etc found on raid gear. I would like to hear it from J-Tal, what they have been planning.
  13. Infamouz

    Infamouz Well-Known Cupcake

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    Indeed, good point. Should read the posts more carefully, which is hard when you have one 6 years old next to you crying why she can´t have sleep over with the next door neibourghs 6 years old, and you have 11 year old sick asking to be served to the couch, and 8 years old needing help with home works. :p

    Ie, preoccupied but still trying to read my Wildstar stuff. :p
  14. Convicted

    Convicted Super Cupcake

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    I think those are 2 different ideas, not the same idea, but that's just my opinion.
  15. GoatSlayrr

    GoatSlayrr Well-Known Cupcake

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    So we're basically getting WoW's stat system, but with new names. At least there won't be much of a learning curve.
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  16. teh_ninjaneer

    teh_ninjaneer Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think I need to bookmark this post and reference it often when people try to claim that Wildstar will only have "raids" as PvE progression. I knew I had read this before but it's good to see it again. Since I have lost interest in raiding in recent years maybe I can now be the Small Group Hero (with stars in my eyes).


    I follow what you're saying. The Solo piece will be heavily stacked on Base Stats because that is all that will be required of the content. Secondary Stats like Crit Deflection/Strikethrough won't be as necessary because the MOBs won't hit as hard or have as high of defenses. Regen isn't necessary because encounters won't be designed to last several minutes.

    The Raid gear will take some of those Base Stats and budget it toward Secondary because the Raid trash/bosses will have extra stats/defenses. You will likely need to reach some minimum value of Crit Deflect/Strikethrough before raising your Base Stats in order to be effective.


    This is a good question also. If the Secondary Stats are only useful in Raid content, then it would be a great way to separate the types of gear. If the extra Crit Deflect/Strikethrough does not translate to extra defense/damage then the player with the Solo gear would probably be a little more effective at Solo Content than the Raid guy, simply because Solo Guy has more Base Stats.
  17. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Sure, there is. Item budget.

    Did you honestly expect something different?
  18. Vyver

    Vyver "That" Cupcake

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    I thought Solo gear being <REDACTED> was what everyone wanted :p I mean, those carebear solo trash need to know how inferior they are to their raiding gods!

    (in a more serious note, I remember a while back, a dev mentioning something about solo gear having extra bells and whistles like sprint increases and other "fun" based items that would make playing more fun, but not exactly benefit them stat-wise like raiding and pvp gear)
  19. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    I agree, the carebear casual solo trash need to be inferior to everyone else.

    I hope not, being able to spring longer could come in handy in many raid/pvp situations.
  20. GoatSlayrr

    GoatSlayrr Well-Known Cupcake

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    With the big talk about "solo gear" there was a little part of me that thought they might come up with something inventive, but overall, no I didn't.

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