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My biggest gripe with subscriptions based MMO's

Discussion in 'Gaming Arena' started by Soylent, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Soylent

    Soylent New Cupcake

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    ... is the feeling of being obligated to play as much as possible to get your moneys worth out of the subscription, and pray to god you don't run into an accident of some sorts that makes it impossible for you to play for a prolonged amount of time essentially wasting your subscription time. In my case it always leads to a burnout within 3-4 months of release.

    Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind subscription based MMO's and will certainly give Wildstar a try with its current payment model regardless. But I simply know that it will cause a burnout sooner rather than later.

    I just feel like it's time to introduce more options, something for the people that can't religiously spent their time playing the game to get their moneys worth out of the sub.

    The idea is simple. Pay per hour, something I'm pretty sure exists in the eastern MMO market for a long time now. Simply buy a set amount of hours which get used up as you play, no obligation to play due to subscription time running out, leading to a happier customer that's less likely to experience the burnout.

    Before you start raging, I repeat, it's supposed to be an option alongside the subscription. You can calculate whether it's better to just go for a monthly sub when you know you'll spend 250 hours playing in the next month, or if you know you'll only have time to clock in 100 hours which may end up costing you less than the sub you can just go for that.


    Why can't the western distributors finally adopt the pay per hour payment option and what's your take on pay per hour?

    Edit: Also another idea: freeze subscription, helpful in those situations when you know you won't be able to play and don't want to see your sub time going down the drain.
  2. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    The pay per hour thing that is in eastern mmo are extremely limited. They will never work in the western market, simply because we do not have laws that enforce this. (korea) The games that have tokens are also limited. These systems are designed, to abide a law and to limit play time per day. I mean, for some casual players that would play seldom would have a huge benefit. they could make 200 hours last 6 months. For most raiders, and Hard-core players, that 200 hours would be gone mid month. Especially with the launch rush. This idea would only work if you can buy 300 (70 hours a week) hours for the 15 bucks. Even then though the casuals will end up paying lees, and the hard-core will pay more.

    In the first week to get my hero to level 60 in diablo i played for about 80 hours. I also messed around, and got the most out of the game, which is why it took me that long to get to 60... For some people that is cake walk, to play 80+ hours a week, Especially the people that have nothing better to do with their life than play a game.

    Also this system will not force you to play, it'd make you not want to play as much as possible, especially in end game, No one would want to roll alts to kill time before the next epic raid. most people would not want to do anything that is not productive, The auction house would be less used. Really it would force people out of the game, unless they really REALLY enjoy it.

    This method will also make wildstar loose lot of potential revenue.

    And there are many people that will play `8 hours a day, during launch to get to that "end game" and as the devs have said there is around 150hrs to get to cap, for those people it will take about 18-20 days to get to cap. Of course that is if everything is not a lie.

    Paying per Real month is much better for this... People pay the same amount and play for an unlimited amount of time.

    In my opinion, it would be fine for me if they let you have 300 hours worth of game time. That way the hardcore will not be paying more monthly than the current system.
  3. Soylent

    Soylent New Cupcake

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    I don't think you understood me. I'm not asking for the removal of subscriptions. I'm asking for a second option alongside subscriptions. If you're a hardcore player that clocks in 300 hours per month the obvious choice is to go subscription.
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  4. Vmoped

    Vmoped New Cupcake

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    Your same argument, Soylent, can be made for all sub services. Does that mean unless I watch tv a lot, or talk on my cell phone a lot I have 'wasted' my money on the monthly service? I remember the days of paying per minute for cell phones and it was not cheaper mate. If the product is worth it, then the monthly sub should not be an issue at ~$.50 a day. Feeling compelled to play is a personal issue that I would not confuse with being everyone's issue. I have played numerous mmo's since the original Neverwinter AOL game, and I have yet to play a F2P title where I could spend less than $15 a month and get the amount of enjoyment I could out of a game like WoW (back in the day), DAoC, EQ 1 or 2, SWG, etc...

    I also have yet to find a hobby that I can spend $15 a month for and get the amount of value I can out of a good MMO. I used to buy games and play them to completion in less than a week. At $40-60 a week, mmo is far cheaper, miniature gaming = $$$, card games = $$$, etc...

    The real question for me is if Wildstar has the value that those games have/had to warrant me paying that sub.

    Once again, all opinions here mate. I do agree that options are good, but I think the sub plus the CREDD option are sufficient (and one more option than most MMO's).

    Cheers!
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  5. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Second option means smaller profit, cutoff point above which it's better to subscribe that would not satisfy most people, all while keeping illusion of 'being forced to do something'.

    Profit is still primary purpose of subsription, so potential price would have to be close to very bottom of what people play per month. If 3% of subscribers play below 15 hours per month, then they could set price of 1$ per hour, slightly decresing profit from those 3% but potentially gaining new players. But that price seems rather bad, and it's unlikely to bring more people, so such change would mostly mean they are losing money.

    Also, "I have to play" is all in your head. Depending on local prices of other kinds of entertainment, you get your moneys worth from subscription after day or two of playing, or week. All gametime above this is irrelevant, because after those few days subscription was already good deal.
    Instead of "I have to play", with paying per hour you get "I can't play/waste my time" It does not solve problem of trying to get best value from your money, it only changes what you do, and changes it for worse.
  6. AusterlitZ

    AusterlitZ Well-Known Cupcake

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    Your freeze subscription idea is not bad,but what Vmoped said before my post is pretty accurate.Let's say i have a 1 year TV and internet contract,and i get into an accident and spend 6 months into the hospital,can i suspend my service?Of course not.Regarding the "i have to play the game,so i can get my 15$ worth of content this months" i never understood that mentality,if the game is that bad,that the only reason you play it is to get your money's worth,why sub to it in the first place?

    If a game is bad,no system will save it,if it's great,people will spend whatever it takes to play it.(look at the people paying 500 bucks for a beta key).
  7. Soylent

    Soylent New Cupcake

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    I guess that's just a part of my personality and being extremely frugal. But yes, I imagine the comparison with other subscription services makes sense in that freezing it isn't exactly something you can expect, it would be a nice gesture from the team though!
  8. XPhiler

    XPhiler Cupcake

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    Plenty of things in life are pay per use though. Sure not everything but Electricity, water, food, fuel, they're all pay per use.

    I like the idea of having a dual system. Not one but a choice. Full $15 sub get full month play as much as you want.

    Optionally $15 can buys you say 100 hrs. (2 hrs per work day, 8hrs each day for sat and sun). Sometimes you'll play more then 100 hrs a month and then you have to buy more hours or subscribe if you think it will be constant. Sometimes you'll pay less.

    Its a win win in my opinion. If you're a hardcore play who plays a lot you'll go with a sub either way. If you dont play much you might be willing to pay $15 or you might conclude you dont have enough time to justify $15. Some will not subscribe because of that, this would solve that issue and potentially provide more profit, definitely more players which is still important to have.
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  9. durabis

    durabis New Cupcake

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    I like the idea of having a better value option for people who aren't pouring hours into the game. And I agree that it would have to be in addition to subscriptions. Another idea might be a reduced priced monthly subscription with a time limit. So maybe pay $10 for a month, but be limited to 80 hours. If your time runs out before the month is up you would have to renew earlier, thus getting less than your month out of it. It would be up to the individual user to decide what would be better value for them.
  10. Rare Spawn

    Rare Spawn Cupcake

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    I'm a little confused by the people who feel they need to play to 'get their money out of it'?

    I have an unlimited cell phone plan, but I don't feel the need to talk on my phone all day for the entire month to get that value out of it. I have a netflix account, but again, I don't feel obligated to watch netflix every waking moment because I'm not getting my money's worth if I don't. I'm paying for my monthly use, whatever that might be.

    Obviously deciding if it is of value to you is personal preference. Either it's worth the 15$ to you, or it isn't. Even if you only played one hour per day for 15 days of the month, that still only comes out to 1$ per hour. Pretty cheap entertainment if you ask me.

    Even cheaper if you play more, like say you play 1 hour per weeknight, and 3 hours per weekend night (Fri/Sat). That adds up to about 50 hours a month, or $0.30 an hour.
  11. binzer

    binzer Cupcake

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    I never feel like I have to play more to get better value. For me it's a simple question of whether $15 is worth the experience I'm having. I would pay $15 to go to a good movie, but I wouldn't pay $15 to go to a bad movie. Even if I only play a few hours a month, if those few hours are awesome, I would call it a fair exchange.

    The issue with paying by the hour (imo) is that it actually encourages people to play less, which is a more significant problem in a community based game. Who wants to be in a dungeon with someone who says, "Can we hurry this up? I'm playing by the hour." I know a lot of people wouldn't be like that, but it could potentially be divisive and change the overall vibe of the game.
  12. Belligerent

    Belligerent New Cupcake

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    OP, I'll say what I said in another subscription thread: It's 15$ a month. I think I spend more than that on toilet paper a month. Getting your money's worth would be a handful of hours in 4 weeks. All this hand-wringing over a trivial amount of money for a hobby is ridiculous. I'd rather pay 15$ a month and get a full featured, polished product, than a piece-meal, pile of garbage designed to penalize you for the most basic of MMO services.
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  13. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    While I can see your point, please don't say that $15 is trivial, for you may not know the financial situation of every person who wants to play this game.
    There are many people that I personally know that would have to think twice if not even more times, if they can afford that amount of money for a hobby. Saying it's trivial = rediculous, I do hope you can see that.

    Also you spend more then $15 on toilet paper each month? Serious what the F* do you eat? :eek:
  14. Dirty Outlaw

    Dirty Outlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    If you have that feeling that you need to do something because you're paying for it and want your money's worth the problem lies with you and not the game, tv, internet, whatever. Hell its not just in cash the skinner's box is a very strong thing look at wow players lol.

    Sadly people cannot control themselves and most likely why these kinds of laws exist (well in korea).

    Also if something happen that you can't play unless you're under contract or bought a years worth of sub time couldn't you unsub or have someone else do it for you.

    Though it would be very nice that sort of freeze plan if you bought a years sub and couldn't play for a few months so you can set the plan to freeze and be inactive till you can play regularly.

    I also do like the pay as you go option but I don't know how that would work out. (honestly though I'll prolly do the sub since it would be easiest for me).

    agreed

    Its 50 cents a day. If you cannot afford that playing games are the least of your concerns.
    That said personally I wish subs could be cheaper by like half, 25 cents a day would be awesome anything less and I'll feel like I'm robbing them lol.
  15. Belligerent

    Belligerent New Cupcake

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    If your financial situation is such that you can't manage $15 a month, that's indicative of something else entirely and isn't Carbine's to fix . I don't make a ton of money and I am not the only person in my household ( to answer your TP question), yet I can manage $15 a month. Sorry, but $15 is pretty darned trivial. What's ridiculous is expecting Carbine to effectively sell their own product short by making it another F2P/P2W mess, to cater to a minute portion of the playerbase.
  16. Ashanor

    Ashanor New Cupcake

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    I'd rather have a sub and access to anything released than have a GW2 type system that tries the manipulate people into buying chests and nerfs any way you could possibly make gold so that you want to buy gems and transfer them to gold.
  17. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah, back in the day when subscription MMOs were still a thing that happened, I was always trying to figure out some way to make it more reasonable, and an hourly/daily/weekly system would definitely be better for a lot of players, properly balanced.

    It wouldn't need any special laws to make it work. All they'd need to do is have you buy a certain number of play hours, then keep track of how long you've been logged into the server, give you a warning as you start to run out, and then cut you off when you do, just like what happens when they do a server update and kick everyone loose. The law doesn't factor into it, it would just be a standard business transaction.

    Yes.

    That would net Carbine more revenue, not less. Since the players would be power-leveling anyways, if they give out say 80 hours per $15, and it takes 150 to hit cap power leveling, then that would cost the player double that "monthly" fee, while under the standard monthly fee if it only takes them, say, three weeks to play those 150 hours, then it would only "cost" 3/4 of that monthly fee, and they'd have 1/4 of the month left over.

    Maybe, but that would be extremely generous of them if they did. 40 hours per week would be generous, you're talking offering 75 hours per week, or over ten hours per day, as you basic package? That's nonsense. I'm sure people play that much, but it's not something any rational company would balance their pricing model around.

    Yes, which is why in many cases you can get different packages, such as a prepaid phone, where you tend to pay more per call, but if you make very few calls per month then you'd save money over a fixed monthly plan, while if you make a lot of calls per month, you'd be better off with an unlimited monthly plan. Phone companies spend a lot of time figuring out the balance point to price these features, so that they get the most out of each that they can, but having more options is better for the consumer.

    What are you talking about? They're throwing gold around like candy these days. I've made 20 gold over the past couple weeks purely from adventuring, and that doesn't even count all the materials and items I got that I haven't sold yet. And the gem store chests are entirely unnecessary, there's nothing in there that anyone needs. I have about two hundred of them sitting in my bank unopened.


    Anyways, just an aside here, but there seemed to be a lot of people in this thread trying to make the "$15 is so cheap" case, laying out how it's cheaper than this or that, how it's really something everyone should be fine with spending without even batting an eye at it. Well that argument may ring true for you, and fair enough if it does, but it doesn't ring true for those that don't want to pay a monthly sub. Please just understand and accept that as an immutable fact.

    These same discussions have been going on since the dawn of the MMO, and I doubt anyone in the history of the Internet has ever been swayed from anti-sub to pro-sub by one of these "but it's like a movie ticket and popcorn" arguments. We can do math, we know how much stuff costs just as well as you do, and we still, for whatever reasons, do not like $15 monthly subscriptions, but whatever those reasons might be, they are not that we do not understand the relative value of $15. You can disagree with us all you like, but for your own sakes abandon the delusion that we're just misunderstanding the situation and that it's possible to "explain it" in a way that will bring us around to your side. It's not a misunderstanding, it's a disagreement on a mutually understood fundamental principle.
  18. Azzurri

    Azzurri Podcaster

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    I could understand if you were paying $50-100 a month, but it's $15, which is probably lunch for the day.
  19. Packetdancer

    Packetdancer Addon Cupcake

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    My philosophy is that I've spent $11 at Starbucks during my morning commute to work in a given week by like, Wednesday. Even quicker if I've picked up a breakfast sandwich!

    So I ask myself, does $11/month to WildStar give me as much or more enjoyment over the course of a month as two days of Starbucks does? The answer—for me, at least—turns out to be "yes". Thusly, the expense doesn't bother me.

    (Now, I really need to learn to use the espresso machine at work of hitting the Starbucks by the bus stop, but that's an entirely different matter.)
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  20. AcidBaron

    AcidBaron "That" Cupcake

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    I have mmo's running that i forgot to cancel, that's how little they actually cost. I really don't see this "pressure" anywhere and no offense but it really comes across as a farfetched argument from the F2P crowd, it really does.

    If a mmo gets you hooked and you find 15 too little as above compare it to other activities and see it how much you get out of there, rather than saying "you need to play it n-hours to make it worth it" if the mmo isn't worth your time to begin with, why are you subbed and complaining about a sub fee?

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