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Organized profession raiding.

Discussion in 'Guilds, Circles and Warparties General' started by Mellkor, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    So it seems to me the most efficient and optimal way to get those world firsts and such would be to get a group of like minded local individuals, hire out a venue once a week, (shed or a hall) and go at it.

    The benefits to this far outweigh any online obstacles or hassles. you can sit the different roles in groups, (Tanks, healers, dps). that way communication much more direct and visual.

    You could also demonstrate different strategies visually using something like a "whiteboard".

    Yet, i have never head of this level of organization in the mmorpg space. It may seem extreme but...isn't that what hardcore implies?
  2. AusterlitZ

    AusterlitZ Well-Known Cupcake

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    Can't be done in a reasonable way.If it was 5 or 10 man raiding,you could theoretically do this,but 40?Also,if you've ever done competitive progression,you would know that the "once a week" thing doesn't really work,progression guilds raid 4 to 7 days a week when they go for world first.
  3. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Getting 40 people into one space onto a stable and fast enough internet connection plus having to setup and take apart rigs each night just wouldn't work. It's definitely not more efficient than using free VoIP services to connect to 39 other people on roughly 39 different inet connections and play with each other remotely. The dawn of the personal computers and the availability fast internet are what killed off a lot of LAN gaming centres/inet cafe's.

    I'm not saying LAN gaming is dead, far from it, but it's a novelty not a necessity.
  4. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    yes, 40 is pushing it. 25 could be feasible. this would most ideal for 10 player raids.

    You could still do raiding on line and congregate once a week to "focus" and converse about problems.
  5. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    Having worked in environments where there is many connections it would be relatively in expensive to set up something for 25-40 people.

    Getting people to come out once a week really isnt a big thing considering there are all kinds of other life events or groups like sports teams that manage to do it out of dedication.

    Hardest part of what you say i bringing the PC's. But then you could do something like hire a lan joint once a week.

    Say for example you have 4 tanks in a raid and one is failing a mechanic, you could line them up and show that one tank by physicaly pointing on the screen and saying exactly what hes missing. Try and do that over voip.

    Usually im with ya on that, The internet is one big lan and has negated the need to congregate.

    But, If there was a $100k reward for a world first i bet you would see the real length people will go to (like this) to win the prize.
  6. Rek

    Rek Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not sure about feasibility, but it sounds like fun.
  7. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    Having an event at a LAN center sounds feasible. The (local) guild would likely have to rent out the whole place.
    Ultimately the reasons I think your idea is unlikely to be implemented comes down to comfort and cost. I would rather raid from home where I can roll out of bed, take a 5 minute shower, and grab a beer from a refrigerator full of beer™. All of this while sitting in my own comfy chair and in a space insulated from the distractions of Mr. and Mrs. John Q. Public.

    Raiding at a LAN center, what you basically described, offers perhaps a higher quality of internet connection than what some of a guild has, but likely offers few other pluses in terms of convenience. If I had to get up, get dressed, and then drive over to the LAN, that's almost a deal breaker for me right there.
    FruitPunchHero and Mellkor like this.
  8. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    Well if you're going for world firsts it's not a once a night thing, as someone said it's a 4-7 (I'd err on the side of the 6/7) days and nights a week. My point regarding the internet is not the non-difficulty of getting a big enough connection and setting up the switches, but more the vulnerability of it, because if that connection goes down it's an entire evening wasted. As opposed to over the internet where you might lose one or two players but can easily sub them for benched players.

    40 Man in person raiding will be fun I'm sure, but it's definitely not a viable option if equipment has to move etc. Now if a sponsor was to support a guild including housing them so they have easy access to a top notch facility, then I can see it working. However at that point we're talking 100% professional raiding and not something people indulge in their evening.

    You get world firsts with a lot of practice, dedication and straight up talent. If I was to be pushing for those kinds of rankings, I wouldn't have players who need much explaining to them or at least nothing they can't interpret by talking, as 99% of raiding guilds have been doing to this very day.
  9. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Even at small spread of players in raid group, like noone has more than 400km from meeting spot, it still means 4-5h travel time one way, so ~10 hours spent extra on their hobby, and that's not counting time to rest after traveling. 10 hours that they could spend in their home, raiding from there.
    Then you include travel costs, exhaustion, pressure from gathering everyone in same room, and it's more likely to do more bad than good, essentially wasting few days worth of time that could be spent on 'normal' raiding.
    With more spread out guilds gathering together takes even more time, making it impossible for them.

    Other life events tend to be one-time occurencies, or are not part of 'race' so you're aloowed to waste few days doing nothing.
  10. dRakk

    dRakk Cupcake

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    If I become a millionaire, I'm totally starting a guild and full on hiring 45-50 people to be in it with salary, and having an actual workplace. YOU BETTER SHOW UP TO WORK AND RAID OR YOUR FIRED (And thats not a job you want to lose)
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  11. Jephilos

    Jephilos New Cupcake

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    Hire me, please?
  12. Noge

    Noge New Cupcake

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    I'm sure we could try and put something like this together if someone is willing to fund it for us.
  13. Zenatsu

    Zenatsu Cupcake-About-Town

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    some quick research finds that most venues charge per head. Depending on the quality of the venue, you could be paying around $20 per person or up to $50 per person. This is just renting out the hall, now figure in internet costs to get a T1 line or a satellite up link for all the computers you are going to plug in.

    How about food? Members bring their own days worth of supplies, or enough money to buy some local fast food?

    Are all guild members local (within driving distance), otherwise they would haft to pay for transportation?

    The idea is fun to tease, but is it viable? with all the costs it is defiantly not viable. It's cheaper to rent a VOIP server, and just require members to be present during raid times in the comfort of their home.

    Your idea of "hardcore" is a little over the top (surprisingly). The difference between a hardcore and softcore player, is the amount of time they wish to dedicate to their teams progression.

    Softcore players tend to raid 1-2 times a week, and at times not anymore then 3-4 hours.
    Hardcore players tend to raid 3-5 times a week, and at times in excess of 6-7 hours.

    That is pretty much the main difference. You can argue attitude, preparedness and other junk is also in the mix, but even softcore players can be as prepared as a hardcore player. In my opinion anyways.
  14. Isgu

    Isgu Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yea, sounds like a big party. :p
    Add in beer and I don't think people would care all that much about world firsts :)
  15. Zenatsu

    Zenatsu Cupcake-About-Town

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    Or get world firsts while drinking beer. heh heh.
  16. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    That's the main benefit - have done that in the past online via recording gameplay videos and watching them as a guild/team to pick up tips/spot areas for improvement but being physically present would allow it to be done faster (plus can pickup on things not conveyed by gameplay vids i.e. awkward keybinds).

    As to the whiteboard for illustrating tactics etc there was a program that could do that that I used for 'on the job tactics' during raiding and while playing clan counterstrike many years ago (think it was actually called whiteboard or something :D). Planetside 1 also had drawing on maps for the team as a feature unlocked at command rank 3 or something, so there's likely a lot better ones around now.

    Team/role communication can easily be setup via voice comms + hotkeys to different channels (I forget the correct terminology but cloning yourself in multiple channels was how it worked) or simply by having class chat channels. Would be faster in a joint venue though.

    I'd be up for it though - people also tend react differently when face to face (raging internet heroes become mild mannered janitors) + it strengthens the team bond when you get to know people in person.
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  17. Gray

    Gray Podcaster

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    This would be so much fun. Do you remember 4 xbox / 16 player Halo 1 Lan parties? :inlove:
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  18. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    No...but i remember the Nintendo Powerglove :p
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  19. Ceodoc

    Ceodoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    <REDACTED> the bed, the halycon days of batchelorism, with up to 8 TV's stored in my flat and madness once a week, right up there in my gaming career!
  20. Ico

    Ico Moderator • WSC's Gentle Flower

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    I live in a house with 3 other PC gamers. Every night is LAN night.
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