1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Payment Model Discussion Mega-Thread

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by MiZTiiX, Jun 25, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MiZTiiX

    MiZTiiX Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Greeting i am going to state reasons why this game should adapt either a F2P or B2P model rather than paying a subscription. *NOTE: When i say F2P i mean no subscription, I'm also okay with buying the game and playing forever as I really like box art and it may make you more $ if the game had to be purchased*

    1) Subscription based games tend to not succeed when a game like WOW are around. This game has a solid player base that keep returning to play the game and there's nothing we can do about it. If you release as P2P eventually there will be a drop in subs and will eventually have to adapt a F2P model. ( the evidence is all sub based MMOs that have come out after WOW) You should just release as a F2P game and do it good rather than being forced to go F2P and rushing it.

    2) F2P games allow the player to get a good feel of the game, from then on they can choose whether they want to continue (because this game is so good and F2P games are stereotyped of being bad, which you can set a new standard of. people will carry on playing this) In the long term if people carry on playing and realize this game is good, they will support the game. The gaming community are not cheap and support good developers by buying their items from a cash shop.

    3) WHAT YOU SHOULD SELL IN "cash shop" cosmetic things that allow you to distinguish yourself from others. That is a powerful thing in MMO s. People want to look different and cosmetic items tend to sell well. Evidence: LoL skins. Experience boosts are also something to look into, it allows player to get through content faster and will really be a high selling point for busy/ casual players who don't have the time to invest in leveling up for ages. However, experience boosts should only be sold like a month after release to allow all players who are trying to be world first level capped a fair competitive experience, and not down to who bought the most boosts.

    4) Later on, you should look into providing different character services e.g realm change, race change, server change, character appearance change. These are really essential for any MMO of today. Be sure to allow players to transfer servers freely and not be narrowed down to a certain sever they can go to. You may even want to make sever transfers free as its such a big part of MMOs, what if friends are playing on different servers and cannot play together?

    5) WHAT NOT TO SELL: power. Selling power is an outdated model that allows rich player to succeed and sacrifices skill for real life money. You may think that selling power will earn you more $ but you are wrong. Power is a thing of the past, we see a large number of modern MMOs scraping this flawed F2P model and 100% you should not think of doing this kind of model. It ultimately loses you more money as less and less players are willing to play games that are unfair and don't even look at games that sell power.

    In conclusion, Free to play is the way. I'd rather it would be a "buy the box, play forever" system like GW2 so that we can have sweet box art and feel like we truely own the game (and you make more money : $) but competley free is also good. We are seeing so many MMOs adapting the good F2P model and it works so well. A player can easily access your game and try it and doesn't feel obligated to play and get burned out because they know they put $15 on the line. It also eliminates your game to fail as people will always be playing and the game will overall be more popular.

    Update: Another thing i have noticed with P2P games are that there is alot of pressure maintaining the playerbase that it actually detracts from the gameplay. For example in wow everything is turned easy, leveling is quick and their philosophy is to rish player to end game to experience end game content. They do this so players don't quick the game as they are lazy and don't want to put any effort in to earn stuff. They want all their loot or they will quit, they want leveling to max level in a day because they feel that they need to get something done as they are putting money ont his. No problem With F2P. Also you will eventually hit a brick wall with how many players are willing to play. Wow's limit is 12million every new expansiona edn 10 at the end (from 2009). Woulden't you like your player base to keep expanding for years and years being and make it accesable to every gamer and mmo lover?
    Jarkaruss likes this.
  2. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Moscow, ID
    It's probably just me, but I'm not a big fan of the F2P model. Sure it works for games like DotA 2, LoL, TF2, but in an MMO it often just feels off. I've never leveled to max level in an MMO that was F2P.

    $15 bucks a month isn't that much to pay for hours on hours of entertainment. In SWTOR, I spent about $80 in subscription fees. I also spent about 300+ hours in game having a blast. If all games had that kind of ratio of dollar/hour, the game industry would be in a much better place. However, if WildStar goes F2P, I will still definitely play it. It'll be the first F2P MMO that I've looked forward to though.
  3. Evion

    Evion WildStar Haiku Winner 2012

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I agree with JarNod, I'm okay with paying a subscription for a game of this sort. F2P does have it merits, and maybe Wildstar could benefit from a free trial to get folks hooked into the game. It would largely depend on how cosmetic things work in the game - Wardrobe overlays, fancy mounts, etc.

    I do agree that services such as appearance changing and server switching would be greatly appreciated.
    Afrotech likes this.
  4. ImmortalExile

    ImmortalExile Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indiana
    While I can see your point in a F2P model, I just don't see WildStar taking this approach. Nor should they, in my opinion. A quality game will have subscribers and be successful. An MMO doesn't need to have 10 million subscribers to be successful. 300k-500k is a successful game. The community is what will make it break a quality game I think. A F2P, while bringing in players, may not be quality gamers.
    This is just my opinion, of course.
    Tim Stone, Afrotech and Maric like this.
  5. MiZTiiX

    MiZTiiX Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Yes CURRENTLY most F2P games are not as good as P2P games, however i'm talking about the F2P games that are going to be released soon. Everysingle one of them look phenominal and prove that we are coming to an age where F2P games are as good as triple A titles. To name a few: Firefall, planetrside 2, coreblaze, otherland, GW2 (no sub fee is what i mean by F2P). The generation of mmos is evolving and F2P seems to be the future.
  6. MiZTiiX

    MiZTiiX Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Well if you don't mind F2P or P2P wouldent you just prefer a good F2P model and you won't have to waste $15 a month and feel obligated to play? bearing in mind P2P games are unnecessary these days as being servers are very cheap to host.
    WildSean likes this.
  7. MiZTiiX

    MiZTiiX Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    8
    WildSean likes this.
  8. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Moscow, ID
    We must have different definitions of F2P then. I figured that F2P games were LoL, DotA2, DDO, LotRO, etc. The ones where there was no price to buy the game (as there is with Guild Wars) but rather the companies made their money off microtransactions. But here is my problem, there were countless times playing DDO and LotRO where I was wandering around and suddenly I came across an area, or dungeon, that I had to pay $2 to get into. It really breaks up the immersion of the game, and makes me feel that I am missing out on some of the cool aspects of the game. Would I spend less money per month on a F2P game where I had to unlock dungeons or world zones than a subscription game? Probably, but I don't spend that much money on things outside of games, and $15 is a small price to pay for a seamless game that doesn't have popups that say "Pay $2 to open this dungeon!".

    But that's my 2 cents...
  9. Frozenoak

    Frozenoak Founding Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    South Orange County CA
    I definitely have an opinion on this subject. I have only found one F2P game that I've enjoyed, long term. That game was Fallen Earth. Their model was a Demo to lvl 5, beyond that you could sub. or you could advance through microtransactions. I chose the sub route and had access to shops that allow a person to purchase the same (but different in name and look) gear as could be bought at microtransaction shops but I could use in world money. Outside of this style of F2P I'm by far in favor of the P2P. In my opinion P2P games tend to be more professional and better supported. Another consideration: the F2P games I play could easily cost me more money per month than the P2P games, considering how much time I like to invest in my games.

    Regards,
    Dale
    Afrotech and JarNod like this.
  10. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bahrain
    I would prefer it if the game was F2P or like GW2 where you bought the game then played for free as well as microtransactions for both types.
    WildSean and Jarkaruss like this.
  11. ImmortalExile

    ImmortalExile Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indiana
    I don't see how 500,000 subscribers, ACTIVE subscribers is a dying game. Sure, less servers, but a dying game? I think WoW's subscriber numbers have left most of us with this twisted sense that you need a million plus to be successful. That's wrong. Completely.

    Like I said, I care more about the quality of players over the quantity. If I enjoyed a game enough, I would pay $20 a month to interact with a community I enjoy, inside a game that I thoroughly enjoy!
  12. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Does anyone know the sub levels of other game bar WoW?

    EvE Online is the only one I know. 500,000 active subscriptions, 200,000 roughly, logging in per 24 hour period. (It's a single shard game so makes things easy to keep track of)

    How are other games doing?

    If you took WoW out of the equation suggesting that it's and exception to normal rules, an abberition if you will.
    Afrotech and bitbandit like this.
  13. JarNod

    JarNod WildStar Haiku Winner 2012 / Lead Guinea Pig

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Likes Received:
    815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Moscow, ID
    SWTOR has about 1.3 million subs right now (or last time they released their info).
  14. ImmortalExile

    ImmortalExile Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indiana
    SWTOR does have about a million subs. ACTIVE, I don't know. I know LotRO still has about 400K active players. Rift is sitting at almost 600-700k subs.
    One million subscribers is A LOT! WoW is just an anomoly, but let's not forget the majority of subscribers are Asian/Korean multiple accounts for farmers. Active subscribers, though... I have no idea.

    If WildStar takes a good 700K Subscribers and they stay active past the first month, the game will be incredibly successful. Though, it also depends on the budget. TOR had an insane budget, and their payout was ridiculous.
  15. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    28
    So basically from 500k to 1 million plus. Who says the Subscription Model is dead?

    Those are fairly good 'box' numbers for any game.

    I think those numbers more or less prove that F2P isn't necessarily the way to go. I'll be playing WildStar regardless of the way they choose to fund it. Although personally I'd prefer a monthly subscription and I think that's the way they are going to take it.
    Afrotech likes this.
  16. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2012
    Likes Received:
    490
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Bahrain
    After patch 1.2 (in fact the day right after it) I stopped playing SWTOR so the sub had not run out yet especially after the 30 day free thing but I was not active anymore.

    They kept saying those numbers and yet my first server was dead.

    Back to wildstar : I am just worried people will see that its subscription based and will try to find a F2P alternative. At least let them have a free trial to entice people to the game.
  17. Evion

    Evion WildStar Haiku Winner 2012

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Likes Received:
    695
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I agree with having a free trial, it's a great way to introduce people to the game and allow them to take a spin before investing.
    Afrotech and bitbandit like this.
  18. ImmortalExile

    ImmortalExile Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Likes Received:
    121
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Indiana
    I'm all for a free trial but I'd say only after the first 30 days of release. That way, the initial game time subscription expires and the team will see who all renews and who doesn't. Either way, a free trial, at least a 7 day trial of the FULL game so people can level, not be hindered b y not accessing certain features available.

    I predict as the game releases more info, more shows are attended by the developer team, BETA, folks will jump on board and they'll decide wether or not they'll be subscribing beyond the first month.
  19. Tiktak

    Tiktak Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2012
    Likes Received:
    88
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I love the idea of a free trial. I don't know why more MMO companies aren't already doing stuff like that? I only know of Blizzard and CCP doing so. Get people playing, get them sucked into the game, you get their sub.

    A lot of the time I usually wait until one of my friends has been suckered into playing a game, so I can try it out on their PC before deciding wether or not to buy it myself.

    WoW, EvE and now WildStar are the only one's I've gone and decided I'm getting without bothering to try it first. (And even in WS's case, I hopefully will get into the Beta!! But that's more to enjoy what they let us play around with and ofc try to break it to help them make it the best game ever.)
    ObliviousPrime likes this.
  20. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Likes Received:
    454
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Location:
    Denmark
    I decided to get SWTOR and Rift after doing open beta. For the price it cost I got more than enough hours of good gaming to feel like an idiot if I complained about it. Same with Diablo 3, I tried the demo and figured it could be fun for enough hours to excuse the cost.
    I do like the open beta stress weekend for checking out a game, however at that point most glaring bugs and issues are already gone, so sometimes it feels like abusing the system :p Never been invited before then though, so what can I do :-(

    I'm still of a mind to sub WoW, SWTOR and Rift a couple of months every year, but not fulltime. Just like, rotate them to see what's new, admire the artwork, test out features, cap one of my toons and have fun.

    As for F2P, only active game I do is EQ2 and I am subbed despite the access to run a F2P account.
    I do not dislike F2P, but with the SOE model, at some point a sub is needed or the limitations will queel the enjoyment. However their model is in my opinion really good to test the game out all the way to lvl 80/85 and then consider if 80/85-92 is worth the sub and 2 xpacs.

    F2P like the model Diablo 3 has (I know it is not technically a usual mmo ;-) where you buy the game and then can play it for free and the form of microtransaction is buying power gear... not really happy about it. Real money power gear is a no no in my book, even in the form Diablo 3 present it.

    What I would like to see was something along the lines of:
    1. no sub
    2. most recent xpac/GUs cost a DLC fee
    3. earlier xpacs/GUs are f2p
    4. microtransaction is for fluff, DVD packs, deluxe artwork, other items not relevant for the ingame experience as such and substitutes for ingame items can also be gained form completing objectives or achivements in game.
    5. Upgrading microtransacted fluff to power items takes ingame objectives.

    Example for 4/5:
    1. an upgrade buff for vanity pets, that makes the pet a walking buff as long as it is up. The player can get the vanity pet from cash shop, objectives, deluxe xpacs, whatever, but getting the buff upgrade is only doable with ingame objectives that requires some sort of dedication and skill.
    2. an speed upgrade to a basic mount (however pretty, awesome or sexy) requires completing the ingame objective.
    3. Heirloom flasks, where you earn the xp on a capped toon and bottle it in this cash shop bought flask and send it to an alt for a 6 hour 10% xp bonus buff. Or something, not seen anything like this, but I am a altoholic when I do not do end game, so a heirloom type of buff sounds rather attractive to me :p

    well, I am far enough from the topic now to just go into a corner and stfu...

    Edit: had to add, I'd totally sub through a cash shop for a WildStar animated video series if the quality and humour from the trailer gives a guideline of the quality...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page