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So Doing Whatever I Want is Great and all, But...

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Spracket, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Regarding hybrids: they most likely won't work nearly as well as they do in other games, because they are limited by both stats and LAS. Assault power for DPS, support for support. By going both ways, you'll not be as effective as if you went for only one. You probably also won't be able to put all skills you want for both roles on LAS, let alone upgrade them with tiering. In WildStar, becoming a hybrid will require more than pulling out 4 more skill to action bar or moving some talent points. Probably. We will see.


    Regarding OP issue: bad news for you: classes differ by theme and playstyle, and that is only thing that, by design, should affect player class choice. Certainly, some classes will be better at one thing or another, but that is due to their mechanics or playstyle, not by direct design. Any tank class can maintank, any healing class can heal them. Some pairs will have better synergy, but by design, as mentiones in few class introductions, any class should perform at their job just as well as any other. One might have better burst, one better mobility, and so on, but those things are not primary definitions of those classes, and can be changed at any time, because those little things are not what makes the class. And that's just fine, in my opinion.
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  2. Spracket

    Spracket Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm well aware of how the classes are designed, and that's why I've retreated to hoping that the content will separate the class roles. Like you said, some classes will be better at one thing or another due to their mechanics. What I'm saying is that I hope the content will require those classes to take advantage of their own mechanics.

    If I can hypothetically enter a 40-man raid with 35 spellslingers and 5 tanks, then something about that content is off. If a medium-armored melee class is in a fight and being asked to do some job that a light-armored ranged class can perform, then it isn't exactly an in-depth fight. It tells me that the fight requires nothing of the DPS aside from staying out of red circles. Basically, what I'm saying is that I hope the PvE content will ask more of the DPS than just smacking the bosses/trash. I would like roles that need to be filled, regardless of who fills them.
  3. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    I disagree. If someone wants to raid with all-medic-and-engineer guild, let them. If someone else has raid group without single esper or stalker, he should still be able to do it. Maybe with more effort, but in ideal case od balancing part of encounter unfriendly to one class would be offset by another part that lets this class use it's strenghts.
    Because if you declare "each 40m raiding group has to have 2 warrior tanks, one stalker tank, two engie tanks, 3 esper healers, 4 medic healers, 2 slinger healers, 6 stalker dps, 4 slinger dps, 2 medic dps, 6 warrior dps, 4 random slots", then you no longer can play what you want, you play what you have to. And that is just bad. Challenge in getting team together, yes, but there is enough of it in getting 40 people that know what they are doing, know their role, and can work together.

    Really? How so? There are no class skills aside from combat skills, so only ways players can interact with encounter is either by movement, skills(so damage/interrups/more movement), or encounter specific item or ability, that is irrelevant of the class. As such, regardless of which classes you bring, they'll do same things - deal damage, move, click on things. But that does not mean that only thing DPS has to worry about is staying out of red.
  4. Kay

    Kay Cupcake

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    That depends; while you may not do as well in DPS or Healing as dedicated classes, you also get perks and bonuses only available to a hybrid class.

    The Spellslinger gets bonuses to Spell Surge that increase it's duration and even boost assault and support power further while spellsurged, get the ability to produce a focus stone, increased mobility, and the ability to deflect attacks, as well as some cooldown decreasing skill.

    Espers get a lot of movement options; the ability to deflect attacks while sprinting, increasing damage/healing after dashing, dealing tech damage if their shields are hit, and more. This allows them a bit more mobility and retribution skill that is not offered to the Espers of the pure destruction or healing variety.

    Medics get the amazing ability to get buffs to assault or support from the other stat (higher stat boosting the lower) which is immediately useful. They can also boost critical chance to all nearby allies, increase power core generation during combat, and increase assault/support everytime they heal/deal damage.

    So while it may seem you're immediately in the middle, you do get bonuses to help you remain effective in your own ways. I imagine it just takes a little more thought and planning, as well as effective skill juggling, but even a hybrid brings some unique skills to the table that wouldn't be available to dedicated healers/damage dealers.
  5. TuxedoMask

    TuxedoMask Cupcake

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    I agree, From top to bottom (at least judging from Tiers/Amps) I don't see hybrid being viable at all in a raid for all the same reasons you listed. If you outgear content (have all BiS) you might be able to do a hybrid build but that's the only way.
    Having said that, if there are Tier armor pieces like in other mmos this also could limit or improve the viability of a Hybrid but still you would have to be wearing things optimal for say a dps spec but you would be using a 51% amp and tier straight for healing.
    I wouldn't recommend it for pvp at all either because if you ever did get cc'd and fell behind on heals it would be insanely hard to pick someones bar back up.

    Hybrids sound great in theory, being able to dabble in 2 roles SOUNDS cool but it is vary rare when you can be successful consistently with a hybrid-esk build and that's what raids and competitive arenas are all about, consistency.
  6. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    First, nitpick to make sure everyone is on same page here, you use 'class' when most other people would use "(hybrid) spec" or "(hybrid) specced player", as all classes in WS have access to two roles.

    Secondly, I'm not saying that hybrids will be weak or useless. If that was the case, there wouldn't be any point to hybrid AMPs. It's just that in other games, any spec of class is usually balanced around playing it this one way, that usually does not include using skills outside your spec. But if you do use them, you might get better than intended.
    What I'm saying, is that WildStar makes hybrid a spec in its own right. You can't just pull out extra skills, because space on LAS, as name indicates, is limited. You can't stick to gear for one spec and expect to do fine in both. And most importantly, hybrids are expected spec, so their power and usefullness should be on par with 'pure' specs, making hybrids more of practical/preference choice rather than picking hybrid spec simply because it's all around better.

    But for practical purposes, tank hybrids uses depend on encounter, getting "full benefit" only when getting directly attacked, and that just does not happen for most players in average encounter. And in other games, it tends to be beter to bring full tank for occasional adds(and possibility of main tank dying) and let other folks compensate for his dps loss.
    Heal hybrids are bit more practical, as they can compensate for players that don't dodge in time, help dedicated healers on some more demanding encounters or even phases of encounter, or even let one/all healers to go hybrid if their gear and saved specs allow, if whole raid can keep up enough healing for that.

    Keep in mind that everything is still work in progress, and in my opinion hybrids are not too high on priority list. They might still get some love and options that make you want to play them, or maybe those options are already here and we just can't see them yet. As I've said before, hybrids are a spec on its own in WS, that doesn't have to be perfect right now, but at some point it'll most likely have it's uses. Not "OMG I NEED IT" uses, but some uses regardless.
  7. eharper256

    eharper256 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'd love to see viable hybrids. As much as I like being a Healer, I also want to crank out some damage. Obviously you'll never do as much as a Pure Spec DPS'er, but you feel more relevant if you feel you've dealt some damage, rather than purely mitigated everyone elses. Or perhaps I'm odd in that... but its always reasons like this I look to Paladin type classes; I want to do both. I absolutely loved my hitty-smacky-evasive Arch Bishop in Ragnarok Online; but despite wading in with the mace, I was also buffing all my casters and healing everyone with AOE's at the same time, and was very effective.
  8. Xecks

    Xecks Cupcake-About-Town

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    heh i think the combat might be to hectic for a true hybrid to exist . it sounds cool though .
  9. Kay

    Kay Cupcake

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    Yes, I mean specs, just a force of habit.


    That's kind of the point; they're not supposed to be on par with a pure damage or pure tank or pure healing class. They're supposed to trade power for versatility and new bonuses. If they could do as much damage as a DPS or heal as much as a healer, well, there'd be little to no reason to spec anything else. Each one already offers conditional bonuses to both support and assault power with proper leveling; why complicate matters further with another attribute to fulfill?


    I'm not sure what you're saying. Hybrid specced warriors benefit from Power Converter (multiple levels of it) as well as stances. Stalkers get bonuses to dash and healing and stuff... it's different, but it's still useful. Far as I can tell, the difference between Hybrids and Pure Specs is that you have to be more tactile while playing; you're not devoted to a singular cause and doing your best to dish it out, you have to juggle your skills and use them more intelligently.

    I think they're trying to build the hybrid specs in a way that is it's own spec, rather than simply being a little half-and-half. That's just my thought, but that seems to be how they're trying to work it.

    Besides, it wouldn't be much of a hybrid if it had it's own attribute; support skills do offer some level of offensive capability, just not of the earth shattering kind like Assault specs do.
  10. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    I did not mean that they would be on par in terms of damage, just that their overall value as player character you bring to raid should be similar as with pure specs. Not better like in some games, and not worse.
    Also, I did not mean separate attribute, just that most classes can't convert one attribute into other (AP/SP), so players that would use both Assault and Support skills need gear with both Power attributes, so different gear than they use in pure DSP/Support spec.



    What I'm saying is: in imaginary encounter with single enemy dealing unavoidable damage that has be tanked to only one player, all other players specced into tanking are not needed, and if it's dps/tank hybrid, he does not recieve any benefit from being specced into hybrid, should not be using support skills (not counting here "supporting tank" where some skills can help other player to tank, as that's entirely separate case), so those hybrids are better off if they spec into pure DPS.
    I doubt there will be many (if any) completely add-free encounters in raiding, so multiple Tanks will be needed, but Tank/DPS hybrids will rather be off-Tanks trying to dish out some more damage, instead of DPS trying to help with something.
  11. Kay

    Kay Cupcake

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    Okay, now you lost me. This seems you're questioning the functionality of Support gameplay as a whole, rather than just the hybrid spec. If you're assault, you want to deal as much hurt as you can, throwing survival to the wind. If you run support, you sacrifice attack power for the ability to outlast your foes. Hybrid is about balancing the two out and using abilities to juggle between them. Through some AMPs, you may even come close to their power.

    For example: Spellslinger gets Spell Power enhancements that increase their maximum Spell Power, allowing them to go into Spell Surge for longer. Another Hybrid AMP is Power Surge, which boosts both support and assult power while spell surged, on top of the existing power boost it offers. With Shock and Awe, you can get interrupt armor for interrupting your target, which is useful, and with Focus Stone, you can use Gather Focus and continue gaining health, spell power, or focus a few seconds after while fighting. On the surface, you don't seem effective, but when you add that all up and syncronize them with whatever support/assault skills you have, you're potentially staying in an enhanced spell surge for an extended period of time while healing or regaining energy.

    The Hybrid is about juggling your skills and syncronizing them to the most desirable effect, rather than a straight forward effect (you can't even spec hybrid if you don't have skills in both assault and support, far as I can tell anyway).

    Medics get one level of Power Converter, and Warriors get three or four; what Power Converter does is boosts your lower stat between Assault and Support power. This allows you to focus on improving one, knowing the other will benefit from it. If you do it right, you might be able to boost them evenly.

    If this all bothers you but you still wanna spec in hybrid, then just get what you need/can use from it and the support tree and focus more heavily on DPS. While the Assault and Support trees are more clear cut in their dealings, the hybrid tree is about a different kind of useful; it's more about strategy than anything else, far as I can tell.
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