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So, with this C.R.E.D.D system?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Gunghoe, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    It's starting to seem like it's not the game for very many people at all, which is more their problem than it is mine. I can just play other things.

    That won't keep the crafters happy at all, because plenty of crafters don't want to fight they just want to craft. If they tell crafters that they won't be able to make master level gear without participating in end-game raids then they'll just write off a huge chunk of the potential crafting market. Now, if materials come from raiding but can then be sold to crafters, who craft and then sell their wares, then that works for them, but that alone would still mean that players could just buy the endgame quality loot without having to work for it themselves.

    Ah, I think I get your confusion. What you're misunderstanding is that just because they say something doesn't make it so. They believe certain things about how their game will work. These things remain true until the exact second that a player interacts with it, and then all bets are off. They believe that the market will sustain their game on a subscription model, I believe that there is no chance of this, one of us will be right, but done assume that it will be them. Ask a thousand parents if their kids will end up in the gutter by 21 and very few will tell you "yes," that doesn't mean their kid will not be in a gutter by 21 (and likely the ones that do aren't form the parents that said "yes" in the first place).


    And they're probably right, it probably will work out great, for the Camelot devs, because they are making a very small niche product designed to be supported by five to maybe low six figures worth of players. They can win that way. Wildstar is clearly a far more ambitious game, and could not possible become profitable with only a low six-figure audience. Wildstar cannot afford to discard the majority of their potential audience, they need every player they can possibly attract. I really wish people around here would get it out of their heads that Wildstar is some tiny little niche game that can be successful on a handful of dedicated dreamers.
    Bigal007 and Roadblock like this.
  2. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Some people seem to believe that MMO games have to atract plenty of warm bodies to stand around and make world seem busy. That is good thing, but it's not priority. Priority is to get paid. True, they need playerbase of reasonable size, but they need paying playerbase.

    And current model is perfect for that, because while it allows some people to play without paying, in the end everyone is paid for.
  3. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    You are under the assumption that this game is going to be like wow, in both demenar and how it gets updated. HAVE the exact same target audience. I do not understand why you think that crafting will be as awesome as it is in sand box type games like Fallen earth, crafting and others. This form of crafting was never put into an extremely successful game. You may get it with EQN, but i almost doubt it there, Unless they do not want challenging content for groups of people.

    We do not need millions of subscribers, for this game, hell they even seem like they are not expecting a huge amount.

    their target is for Burned out MMO players that are tired of tab targeting,

    and new MMO players.

    They do not care if it attracts the casuals that just do nearly nothing every month, those people now have F2P games at their lesure, and those games are made for them, look at neverwinter, and soon look at ever quest next.

    This game is going to have a success, it will entirely rely on the dedication of the community, and the devs doing their part. Making GREAT updates. that will take longer than 1 week to complete.
  4. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    That's what TOR though, and TSW, and LotR, and DCUO, and DDO, and CO, etc., etc. plenty of games have thought that having a small audience of subscribers could work for them, but the audience they got was always smaller than they needed. You're right that they need paying customers, but subscriptions are not the best way to achieve that.



    But Kirito wasn't the crafter, Lisbeth was, and she didn't kill anything. She only tagged along because she wanted to and could have stayed back at her shop. Look, I'm not a hardcore crafter, I don't much care myself, but I know that they think they matter, and they won't be happy with having to do endgame raiding just to be great crafters.

    Have you seen any footage of this game? Have year heard how long it's been in development? This is not a cheapy game. Cheapy games exist, put together by a handful of people over a year or two, released for a tiny amount of money and hugely profitable with only a few thousand sales. This is not that game. This is not a game that can possibly account for the money already spent with a small subscriber base. Stop imagining that this is some shoestring game that can survive on shoestring game numbers, IT IS CLEARLY NOT.
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  5. Gunghoe

    Gunghoe Cupcake-About-Town

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    So in order for them, to make me happy, and the other people that want meaningful rewards for raiding, warplots, hard solo dungeons, They will have to sacrifice the Blizzard mentality, like they have said, if you do not like the game, there are other games for you to play. They have a great plan, but they will NEVER be able to please every one. This game, you know what crowds they are trying to please, it is a 3-4 large groups of similar style people that like the housing systems, the Solo content, the Raiding/dungeon content, and the PvP content. SWTOR, said they would be fine with 200k subs, Similarly so did FFXIV, because they had to retool the content as a whole which was a huge costly acheivment. This game will have a nice world audience, they will pull probably around 200k for the first few months, and then if the game is good grow from there. They are not looking to PLEASE every one. They want to make a game that they will enjoy, and if others do to great. They have said multiple times, that they will update all sorts of end game, Crafting is a focus but not as focused as the major 4 PvP, PvE solo, PvE Raid, and housing/warplots. These are the main focus, to think that they will focus heavily on making Crafting, especially now, to make BiS gear for each of the 4 branches of end game you are completely dreaming. Maybe PvE solo, and housing/warplots, but the other two, you are dreaming to think that crafted gear will be as good as those rewards. This system is attractive for a lot of people, they have around 600-700k beta apps, and that is pretty low... And they understand the reasons, and what they have said during interviews and other events, is what causes it. Their marketing is also not Gigantic, it is there, but not gigantic. There is still tons of people that never seen anything on this game. This game may not be what YOU like, but this game satisfies many other people that want many different things. PEOPLE that typically craft all day, and play the auction house game, are very little minorities.
  6. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    That's true. Though, I do hope that CREDD accounts have access to the same things that a subscription account does.
  7. Baconwich

    Baconwich Cupcake

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    I don't see why not. The month is still being paid for either way.
  8. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    I've been following the game pretty closely, and I'm almost certain they've been pretty clear that the best gear will come from everywhere. Since there is solo and group elder game progression, we can probably count on some of it being accessible through those methods. I'd definitely hope that also means that crafting offers some smattering of BiS as well.

    Nothing's been said to indicate that raiding or Warplots are the "featured" end game, only that they are one of the options at end game.
  9. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    You're making far too many assumptions about things you don't know about.
  10. BonusStage

    BonusStage Well-Known Cupcake

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    Can anyone please point me towards those awesome F2P MMO that are out there and iam not playing? because i feel like iam missing out on something...

    Also it seems that they really meant that the game is made for the 1% crowd, and iam glad that this is the case, iam willing to pay, i did not need the CREDD system and i guess this is intentional, they do not want people to need to use CREDD but at the same time they want to give people the option.

    EQNext seems to be the only game that might be a threat to WSO, but that's because it's class system is designed like a MOBA, it has a linear progression and lots of player created content.

    it might be a interesting game, but i dont think it will be a hardcore MMO that raiders and PVPrs are looking for.

    We will se how it goes on 2014, i will pre-order WSO as soon as i can, meanwhile all we can do is wait for more information.
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  11. Grim Fandango

    Grim Fandango Well-Known Cupcake

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    As mentioned before, it's a compromise to shut up the endlessly whining freeloaders who think they deserve a high quality game for free. That's all it is. So they have this. If they truly can't afford it (or the much more likely excuse of just refusing to pay), they can actually work for it. But considering the mindset of most of them, the simple idea of having to work for something is absolutely atrocious, too.

    And to those specific types of players, I sincerely hope they do live up to their threats of not playing. (Even though they'll be first in line to pay a subscription. But a guy can dream...)
    Bnol and BonusStage like this.
  12. Bigal007

    Bigal007 Cupcake

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    They are indeed over selling it because if it is easy to pay for your sub in this way then no one will sub will they.
    Also Carbine will have to insure there are lots of things for people to buy with gold so they run to the crudd shop, now how are they going to do that I wonder.
    Its nothing more than a glorified cash shop, generate need for gold and then satisfy that need in a underhand way, you have need warned.
  13. HoneyKun

    HoneyKun New Cupcake

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    A bit off topic, but I am wondering: Why buy CREDD for real money when you could save $5 and get another 30 days sub? Adding another month will solve the whole "don't have time to farm gold" thing. If you can't farm enough gold in another 30 days, somethings wrong.
  14. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    Time. It's $20 to not wait.

    Greed can be another factor. They may want the item above all else or may just want all of the items of that type. I've seen "fashion collector" or "mount collector" in other mmos. Just grinding up more gold may not be enough if carbine adds new stuff at a quick enough pace.
  15. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Doesn't that depends on how much gold it costs in-game? ;)
    How much gold you need for other things? (repairs, pots for raiding etc.)
    Or how much time you have to farm that gold?
    Or how fast you can farm gold?

    Why would something be wrong? :confused: (we don't have enough details)
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  16. Furor Tuetonicus

    Furor Tuetonicus Cupcake-About-Town

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    First Ohoni, thank you for maintaining civility and a logical discussion of what is a very contentious topic that a lot of people are getting really bent out of shape about.

    As to your reply to my statement, there will indeed be a huge need for gold for the elder game. Housing will NOT be cheap, neither will mounts or cosmetic enhancements. I believe enough people will want to rush housing and mounts(rowsderdower mount, just sayin...) to keep the CREDD system lucrative for everyone involved.

    Not only that, raiders will likely have a strangle hold on high end crafting mats, forcing those who wish to "just craft" into a situation where they'll need to pay the high costs of those mats on the exchange, enticing another group of people to purchase and sell CREDD.

    As to the viability of a subscription model in this era, I think there's a major flaw in the F2P model in that nearly no one does it well. Doing F2P badly, or even mediocre, limits the amount of resources that can be put into a game post-launch. Whereas a sub model allows a consistent and reliable source of cash to continue to build the game. While WoW is shedding subscribers, it isn't because subscription is bad, it is because WoW is old and isn't able to innovate their combat at this point. After nine years players are looking for a truly different and exciting combat system, and a truly new world to explore, so Carbine has taken a very WoW like art style, a simplistic two faction system, a new eminently explore-able world, and added an active combat system(among probably a bajillion other things I don't know about). It is the classic, "If you build it, they will come" scenario, complete with a subscription model and cartoon-y graphics.
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  17. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    It does not really make much difference for Carbine. Heck, for them it's more profitable when most people run on CREDDs.
    If they are easy to get (big supply), then all more power to Carbine - more people can play game without paying, and they are earning more money than if all those people were using normal subs. Much more money if those people did not play at all.
    But people that do not want to feed other people pockets with their gold and don't mind sub will keep on using subs, simple as that.


    First of all, primary issues with cash shops in most games are directly selling power that is otherwise unavaible, and sacrificing 'normal' content in order to have things to put in cash shop.

    Things like CREDD allow to entirely avoid second issue - they are consumable, and there is steady demand for them, so such 'cash shop' does not interfere with game at all.
    Issue of selling power is really small when all that is being sold is item that has to be sold to other players for gold. It's self regulating, nobody will be making millions on it without people that actually have those millions and are ready to throw them away.

    You're not supposed to buy CREDDs to use them. You're supposed to buy it, then put it on CX (Wildstar trade network), and get some gold for it, while allowing other player to save his real money and subscribe using ingame money.

    Not exactly.
    In most other games that sell for real money items that can later be sold for ingame currency, sooner or later there appears 'standard' exchange rate of real money into ingame currency, and usually it's based on how much you can farm in hour, and how much real money 'suppliers' earn per hour from their real-life jobs. True, we do not know what kind of demographis Wildstar will have, so we can't determine average value (in hours) of those 20$, but we could estimate based on those other games.
    Either way, if there is reasonable supply of CREDDs(so people do not inflate prices), their price will be conversion of hours worth that 20$, to gold average player earns in those hours. And that value is entirely time-dependant, so it'll amost certainly be far below what one can earn over month of playing.
  18. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    So first you say ''not exactly'' and then you proof my right :D

    I love you :inlove:

    As I said we don't have enough details from in-game WS to say something like that. And you proof that once again for me :up: by saying things as ''if'' ''as seen in other games''.
    Yup IF (again the if) they do the same as other games, but we just don't have enough details about WS to say it will be the same.
    I was talking without looking at other games, i've seen keeping an open-mind and don't go looking at other things too much will make sure it won't be disappointing in the end :geek:
  19. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    The only case you really buy CREDD is if you want in game gold and don't want to spend a lot of time in game earning said gold. There are a lot of people like this, that work long hours and want to log in, play what they want to play, and not have to feel like they're "poor" in game. These people often will resort to gold sellers, but with the CREDD system, they can simply legitimately buy gold.
  20. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    Mine "not exacly" refers mostly to first question in your previous post(and I do agree with it overall, thus 'not exactly' :p )
    - ability to farm up enough money does not depend on on ingame price of CREDDs, but other way around. CREDDs priced above players ability to farm simply won't sell

    In my opinon, it's more a matter of community than game itself. And while community is in even worse place than game, as we can't possibly know anything about it untill game releases, it's a choice of substituting unknowns with guesswork from other games, or saying 'unsufficient data' and finishing discussion here and now.
    And I personally prefer to play guessing game, even I have to point out in each line that I'm guessing :p

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