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Social clan/team/family aspects in game

Discussion in 'Gaming Arena' started by SiegaPlays, Sep 18, 2012.

  1. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    I found this old text in a sort of almost nearly discarded docuement I started some years ago because I wanted to describe a f2p game I was theorizing on how I wanted to look (yes, reality sucks, I go far to far into details to ever finish anything, or even start it for real :oops:), and rereading it now years after I am kinda, what was I thinking, using voting politics in guild building, players would run screaming? If they stay beyond the cash store connection to guild hall upgrades.

    I was young(er), so young :notworthy:

    BTW the game concept worked with ingame playstyle paths though activity, which later made me interested in WildStar - besides the absolutely fabulous intro trailer.

    "Clans

    The basic clan comes with a clan chat, up to 50 toons clan roster, clan achievement wall (public), single day recruitment ads, clan member ranking and security access, and message of the day.

    To prune inactive clans and members there is a set of mechanics to automatically disbands clans, that fails certain requirements of active account votes for an active guild leader. At the same time there is a set of requirements to prevent abusal of this mechanic or clans being stuck with inactive leadership. Active clan members is rewarded for loyalty by having more votes over time. Sofa potatoes are hereby discouraged, take a stand.

    The risky startup and survival of the clan

    A clan requires 10 account signatures to start up. The initiator will have a 10 points primary vote for the first month of the guilds existance, so they only need to vote on themselves or someone else to put a guild leader in charge.

    The guild leader can not kick any members during the first month.

    A guild that goes without guild leader for two months will automatically disband and all upgrades will perish. The daily MOTD will notify members of this as a guild message once every hour. If no recruiting enabled members are active after the first month, all members will get access to inviting new members to be able to save the guild within the last month.

    Voting

    Guild leaders requires support.

    Every active account in the guild has 1 vote point per active 3 months in the guild. This is part of the account social history, so it will not reset by leaving or getting kicked, it will just resume if the account joins the same guild again.
    All account guild vote points resets with 1 month of account inactivity.

    A guild leader needs a majority and at least 30% of voting member account support and at least 10 votes to maintain leadership. The count of votes are updated once every maintainance day, but guild leaders can enforce an update once every 24 hours.

    Inactivity for a month will remove the vote the inactive member made and reset their votes to 1, and rinse all votes on an inactive member.

    Voting is anonymous unless a majority of active accounts select open votes as guild standard.

    Members who has failed to make a show of support by voting will get a personal message once every play hour to do so, after 24 hours of playtime it will be public in guild chat while they play.

    Leadership

    Guild leader can add up to 7 more access ranks to guild benefits and duties: Tryout, Recruit, Member, Veteran, Area Leader, Officer, Assisting Guild Leader
    The Guild Leader can make access combinations for these 7 ranks for Bank access, Recruit/Promote/Demote/Kick, Access to guild roster, Change message of the day, Allow upgrading of guild features, Access to forum admin, Access to recruitment tool admin.

    The guild leader can make titles for the guild roles. The guild leader can add chats for the specific roles, but this ia a feature requiring a guild upgrade.
    The Guild leader can also make titles for member roles on forums and calendar. This feature requires guild upgrades.

    Guild hall

    The basic Guild Hall comes with a large one floor room. Access is public.

    Every convinience benefit from having a guild hall comes from upgrading the guild in the store or through playstyle status points. Guild leaders set the bar for who can upgrade a guild from the store. The players who upgrades the guild hall gets a permanent name plate on the guild achievement wall, but forfeats ownership of the upgrade which will belong to the guild ID until the guild perish from lack of account members.

    Types of store guild upgrades can be found in the Store chapter.

    Types of guild level upgrades are:
    Playstyle room module.
    Guild bank with 1 tab.
    Trainers (including tutorials, training new abilities or resetting talents) (one for each area of playstyle).
    Shopowner.
    Ingame forums.
    Calender extension.
    Mailbox.
    Profession tools and storage.
    Advanced recruitment tools.
    Portals to zone portals.
    Homing device clicky for the guild tabard that ports to Guild Hall (1 hour CD). (requires the user to have a guild tabard)
    Door to family resident private floors. (requires the user to have a individual private floor upgrade)

    Workteams

    Workteams is a upgrade from the store. Workteams makes it possible for groups of up to 10 people to cliche up outside guild or family groups to work on an objective on a regular base, for instance group objectives in any playstyle. A toon can only be in one workteam per playstyle. An account can have multiple toons in one team. Only the leader and inviter of the workteam needs the actual store upgrade to access the workteam invitation and calendar invitation feature for the team. Disbanding the workteam is the only way for the leader to leave it.
    Being in a workteam has the added group benefits of a port directly to the nearest available (non-agro) spot close to any of the members, on an hourly cd. Workteams has their own chat channel.

    Families

    Families is an upgrade from the store. A family makes it possible for up to 10 accounts to be bound together for better or for worse with a shared social housing project. While workteams are for ingame objectives, a family is for multiboxing benefits or social roleplaying attachments."
  2. Sarcan

    Sarcan Cupcake

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    Very interesting concepts. Many seem very playable.

    My only critic is that you penalize people for having Real Life interruptions and make some aspects feel like a job due to time requirements on many of the activities. IE, don't log in and vote often enough and the Guild is gone, everyone's work just discarded. Sometimes people need to take extended breaks, whether by choice or need and the system needs to be flexible enough to accommodate those situations.

    Also it appears currently to benefit the Hard Core more than the casual guilds. Possible solution would be to designate your type of guild and the time requirements and amount of votes adjust based on your structure. Of course making changes to the type of guild if you hit a certain activity level to prevent abuse by hard core guilds selecting a casual status.

    Guild leadership is typically not a fun aspect of a game, but a necessary one. Adding tools to make leadership a desirable and fun activity would definitely help in something like this.

    Keep the ideas flowing, I love looking at new and potential gaming mechanisms. Social is what games use to be all about. Now it just seems like everyone wants solo, pvp and end game content with all the extra in the middle taking a back seat. The days of enjoying the journey (taking a LONG time to level) with friends is starting to feel like a distant memory.
  3. nilihanth

    nilihanth Cupcake

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    Wow, I like some of this stuff. I can get behind better guild management and I think you've got some interesting ideas on that front. I personally would avoid some of the hard restrictions like the mentioned inability to kick a guild member for the first month in office as the Guild Leader.

    I like the idea of a voting mechanic as long as it is not tedious and spammy to the players. When you get bugged constantly about something just to maintain a situation, it can get annoying quick. I like voting but it shouldn't be a frequent activity.

    SWG had a similar voting system when they introduced player-cities. A player with the appropriate politician skills could apply to be the Mayor. More than one candidate meant that the citizens could vote. I can't remember how the announcement was handled for reminding citizens to vote, but generally the candidates themselves did the reminding, not unlike politicians today :)
  4. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Voting was supposed to be a one time thing until you want to change it, as long as you do not go inactive for a month or more.

    But yes, I planted too many intrusive methods into it for those who for whatever reason would not participate. They should have the option to abstain, much like the real world politics :)
  5. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Their vote stays in effect as long as they do not go inactive for more than a month.

    Maybe one month absence is too short a time for some guilds, and maybe the guild leader should just be allowed to scale the acceptable abcense between one and three months, but I do feel there ought to be some sort of time limit for how long a person can be part of voting for a leader without being active and around to be concerned about guild developement.

    For the guild to thrive, the voting has to stay with those who are active, not with those who once were active.

    Personally I feel more than a month is too long, because sudden inactivity in the guild among a large group - maybe they decided to journey on to another game - will leave the rest with a leadership situation upheld by those who left. It is not a healthy situation for a guild, and too long time with a screwed up leadership ruins guilds.
  6. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    Some great ideas by the way, could have a month limit but if we are looking at retaining long term committed players then we need to put something in place for those that are deployed to the field or go on overseas assignments. The Mayor or leader would need to be able to tag them as such and they would still remain in the guild etc. SWG had similar for houses in a city, you could set them to not be demolished in the event they ran out of rent.
  7. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    Right on Nilihanth, post NGE it was an email reminder in your message box I think. Mayor could also message the entire guild and have messages displayed when they logged in.
  8. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    Makes sense that people have to put themselves forward as a leader.

    Looks like you all mistake the resetting the vote on inactives as a punishment for being away. That is not true. It is about the guild, not the player real life.

    Inactivity will only remove a players vote, it will not kick the player from the guild, so I still see no good solution in letting any form of inactive player keep voting. They can reset their vote, when they return, if they return.

    Life still goes on in the guild, even if they are deployed, working overtime or have longterm sickness in their family or the economy is down or are generally burned out.

    Having to work around inactive votes - like having to recruit enough to outweigh the inactive votes - to change a situation in the guild is more of an inconvenience and punishment for those active in the game.

    Not resetting the vote is punishing to those active in guild. We all have real life and sometimes it prevents us from playing, but the voting system is about the guilds survivability, the guilds active life. Any single player is not more important than the guilds integrity itself. Resetting inactives votes is not a punishment to the absent player, it is to prevent longterm issues in the guilds current activity, and inactives are at no time part of such current guild activity, no matter what the reasons for absense is. Hence their vote should not count, until they return and reset it.

    Someone who are away for a period, should know that the guild goes on. Expecting to return to the exact same point in his guild life, when time has passed by in the guild during his absense is ludicrous.

    Imagine a leader xfers with an alt to raid somewhere else (or as the last effort to play before burnout), he is still leader in the guild, his account as such is still active, but you can not remove him for someone who is active and around. That guild will die, if the mechanism for voting is not decided on status quo in the guild, rather than a misguided sense of being nice to absent people, who got screwed by real life. Voting is not about inactive people, it is about the active people.

    We pretty much have such a situation in WoW right now. Leader left it to his alt two weeks ago. He instated two officers, who log on once a week (when we are lucky), and noone can promote or demote new members, they are invited and tagged automatically as alts. We can reach the leader through realID, but he is logging on less and less on D3 and just about never on WoW, so that will perish at some point too. We have to wait for him to go totally inactive to petition for a change of leadership.

    Not a sustainable situation in the long run, if those who are left wants to rebuild a memberbase for grouping and 10 mans, instead of letting it completely die.
  9. nilihanth

    nilihanth Cupcake

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    I hope that Wildstar's guild system is deeper than the norm. In most games, ironically including Guild Wars, guild management is very shallow and simple. The purpose of a guild ends up only being for PvP or just for grouping convenience.

    Guild Halls in GW1 added a slightly more deep mechanic, where the guild leader could grant privileges for guild storage/bank access. SWG had the same type of privilege granting system, only a little deeper since the Guild Hall itself required maintenance and, over time, Guilds became more and more feature-rich.

    Some general (individual) concepts that I would like about a guild system, some of which fall in line with what you're saying, SiegaPlays:
    • 1 Guild Leader with a "circle of elders" set of sub-leaders. The sub-leaders would have 99% the same power as the leader has, but collectively instead of singularly.
    • Guild role distribution: I like the idea of a variety of functional roles. Recruiting officers, Financial officers, Logistics, Military leadership (PvP or PvE), Engineering (crafting), etc. Some of these role categories could even have their own hierarchies.
    • Built-in Calendar, bulletin-board, forums. Doesn't EVE Online have something similar to this?
    • Guild Hall. I like having a functional place for the guild to function out of. Two systems I particularly liked are SWG and GW1 (not sure how GW2's guild hall works) and for different reasons. I liked how the guild hall in GW2 was encorporated in Guild vs. Guild PvP. You could run around with the guild outside of battle in your hall and work out strategies. In SWG the guild hall had many rooms, all of which could be decorated and put to use in different ways, due to the awesome flexibility of their housing system.
    I think this falls in line with the social-clan side of this topic, so I don't think I've hijacked the thread (I hope)
    SiegaPlays likes this.
  10. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not sure how the guild/clan hall idea will work with floating island housing ?
    1. There will specific guild islands for the guild hall ?
    2. Guilds halls will only be permitted on the ground ?
    3. There will exist some kind of fast track travel between islands linked to a guild name ?
    4. If 'I' were the one calling the shots I would stick them all underground, instanced and could expand to whatever size you wanted, heck could have entire underground guild dungeons, malls a decorators dream come true.
    Anyway food for thought didnt want to hijack the thread sorry :)
  11. Black Wolf

    Black Wolf Super Cupcake

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    The dwarf inside me likes underground guild halls! I'm still dreaming of dwarfs in the game.
  12. Sarcan

    Sarcan Cupcake

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    I like the idea of the Guild Hall Island. Make it like a Space Station idea with docking ports where we pull our house island up to it to make an impromptu city with all the guild member houses around the main island. You then could instantly tell visually how success full a guild is by the size of their city.

    Guild Island could get upgraded by axillary islands (Crafting, Guild Shops, Bars and Storage Facilities, ect) that are purchased or build through Guild efforts and achievements. Really give meaning to working together, being social and showing off your stuff.

    To often in games Guild Halls are just a house or instant area that gives no real social aspects other than have a place for guilds to get together. Make Guild Halls something that anyone inside and outside the guild can visit and envy to make it a truly social experience.

    Back on topic,

    Thanks for the clarifications Siega, makes a lot of sense in what you are saying and helps clear the air on what I had seen as barriers. Activity should always give benefits to the organization as a whole. In-activity while unavoidable at times, does need to have consequences. You have captured both aspects very well. Also Guild Leadership needs to be more about direction, focus and mentoring than about what permissions you have on Guild Storage and Ranks. If you are not around, not actively helping the Guild, then you have no business being the leader, like in the WoW references. Putting an Alt in charge with no intentions of actually participating means you were probably a bad GM the entire time or just spiteful in the end. Tools need to be in place to correct a bad GM, and your voting system seems to fill that need nicely.
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  13. nilihanth

    nilihanth Cupcake

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    You worded that nicely. I agree that the leader is more to provide direction and mentorship than directly manage everything. This is why an effective leader should wisely choose his staff. Delegating is a good thing, not a bad thing. A leader, in the end, is the glue that keeps everything together.

    I agree. Voting is a nice tool to counter inactivity or bad leadership. In the event the guild leader becomes inactive or just plain terrible, the members can vote him off the island, or just out of leadership. When a new leader steps in, they of course have the power to assign new sub-leaders as needed.
  14. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    to me it just shows they have a lot of members, quantity is not always the same as quality, however, you suggestion got me to thinking along the line of making guild halls a sign of success, and how to make people more aware of who has done what, where and when.

    In terms of a guild hall, what about an aura of success from guild boss kills that gives guests a one hour buff when they leave?

    Guild killing a world boss gains some sort of furniture that for a temporery period, say a week or a month for everytime the boss is killed, is more than decor for accomplishments. Giving people passing through the guild hall a boss specific buff for an hour. A special snowflake effect, with a good enough buff - without making it OP - to make it worth while for guests (non-guildies) to come by and sign grats on the guilds guestbook. Sort of magnificience rubbing off on the masses effect :cool:

    Naturally the guild need to give non-members visitor access for it to work. If they want to keep the buff to themselves, their accomplishment just do not reach the community news updates :p
  15. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    errrrm (awkward silence) ok no one else said it........ but maybe you need to think about that therapist I recommended bud, .....she sorted out my who Gnome issue no problem :) .......wait .....have to go there is someone in my garden messing with my pond again Dammit !!!
  16. SiegaPlays

    SiegaPlays "That" Cupcake

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    so a highly flexible height scale on character customization, check

    Underground guild halls does sound nifty
  17. Sarcan

    Sarcan Cupcake

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    Yes I over simplified the suggestions there. I was thinking that there would need to be a prestige or participation level needed to actually dock up both for the player and the guild level for the number who could dock up. Then the size of the city would indeed show the quality of the guild not just the quantity.Also the size of the Guild Hall itself could grow best on the total quality of the guild. Number of banners and trophies available, so on and so forth.

    Actually it would be funny if those guilds that just spam invite would have all the housing around the city tethered at a distance but not connected, kind of like a swarm of angry gnats, clearly indicating that the is no teamwork in the guild and they just have numbers cause they can't bring it together as a team.

    Also there needs to be some system that scales the activity marks based on the number of members, encouraging quality over quantity. Hard part is making it beneficial to have a large pool of quality. A small guild a 10 quality should not grow as fast as a guild of a 100 quality members. But a 100 member guild of bad quality (not working together) should not grow and develop as well as the 10 member quality guild.
  18. Maddog Charlie

    Maddog Charlie Cupcake-About-Town

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    All good points here. Maybe if the guilds ‘rank’ and rewards were more based on profession achievements and time online rather than quantity of membership it would be more reflective of the efforts of the guild. Often those helping out others on help channels and crafting like a madman don’t have the opportunity to contribute to the overall rank of the guild. Turn it from more of a numbers game into more of an effort vs rewards game?
  19. nilihanth

    nilihanth Cupcake

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    Agreed. Players (and in turn, Guilds) should be rewarded for doing well in their roles. Much like Battlefield 3 rewards classes for doing their jobs. An example: My wife generally plays an Assault class but she focuses on helping with the medic abilities of the class. It is not uncommon for her to earn top 3 on the scoreboard because of points from healing or reviving allies, not kills.
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  20. Phiqu

    Phiqu Cupcake-About-Town

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    I hope we get a tax system in game. That would make many things easier.

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