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Stalker Stealth

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Unseen, Apr 13, 2013.

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Will Stalker have unlimited stealth later on?

  1. Yes

    60.0%
  2. No

    40.0%
  1. Unseen

    Unseen New Cupcake

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    I really didn't think this thread would get so many views/replies; thanks a lot guys for all the great conversations around this mechanic; I really like all the input everyone put in.
  2. Dedlaw

    Dedlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Honestly, I think any stealth is better that that from GW2.

    It's like playing whack-a-mole

    Here I am!
    *poof*
    Here I am!
    *poof*
    ....
    CaRaDaGaiTa likes this.
  3. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    At least this requires skill to decide when to open, when to hit, when to evade. It's sort of a dance of death you perform on your victim which requires a risk/reward sort of cooldown management and in GW2 at least I felt like I could respect a Thief that beat me.

    However in games like WoW when they hide infinitely waiting on cooldowns just to pop out on you blow every CD they have to get an almost easy kill and then run off and hide again I can hardly respect that play style.

    It all comes down to the initiation for me. In a game that damage is PvE balanced I don't think any class should have such a huge advantage opening with things that can't be countered like garrote/stun and when you finally regain control of your character you're sitting at 50% hp if you're lucky.

    This in my opinion is just broken and I don't think anyone really enjoys it other than people who enjoy cheesy gimmicky mechanics that give such an unfair advantage. If stealth classes actually have to work for a kill and fight someone who can fight back then I have no problem with it at all.

    P.S. Would Stalkers be ok with their class having half of everyone else health pool? So that way after you open on your target and blow all your CDs you can both be at relatively the same HP and then have an actual balanced fight?
  4. Luc

    Luc Cupcake-About-Town

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    It is needed to be this way, because of Gw2 features, like you can Hide other people with thiefs and also give regen over time to players, with your stealth you can revive people and capture points, if the invisibility was infinite it prolly won't be this way, and without the ability to ress/captures points while stealthed would put Thiefs into a really lower position with no reason to spent 1 point on LAS for stealth.

    I don't know $hi% about the W* pvp , so i can't compare how much the stealth can affect the fights.

    I like the idea of limited stealths , but if it is intended to be like GW2 2~6 seconds it NEEDS to have extra passives such as regen+,move speed,+armor or even hit while stealthed.

    I'm also signed for a way to detect stealth. its challenging, fun and fair for everyone. ( even though it needs to be really good implemented to not cause stealth to be Inneffective)

    Just some ideas and speculation, because i don't think they'll make big changes such as this, at this point of development.
  5. CaRaDaGaiTa

    CaRaDaGaiTa Cupcake-About-Town

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    Skill???? HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

    Thieves take no skill to play on GW2, just a faceroll class, spam your 2 button and kill people, while stealthing all the time.
  6. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    I could go to their forums right now and find a near copy/pasted post of exactly what you just said probably for every class in the game. Comments like these are in every forum in every game for every class and spec in the world and everyone knows it.

    Make the words "Thieves, GW2, and stealthing" fill in the blank form and you have probably 25% of all PvP forum posts in existence.
  7. CaRaDaGaiTa

    CaRaDaGaiTa Cupcake-About-Town

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    To be honest, the entire GW2 pvp is bad.
  8. Dedlaw

    Dedlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Probably one of the most debated topics regarding profs in GW2 :)

    But my opinion is that due to it's ability to spam high damage attacks and the ability to disengage from combat at will means the skillcap for thief is lower that other classes. In a 1v1 scenario I would bet on an average skilled thief vs any other average skilled player. You need a lot of experience with a thief to be able to predict what they might do in order to counter them. And even then, if you face a skilled thief you face a monster.

    So IMO the way most of them play is not all that different from other MMOs:
    Find a straggler
    Pop invis
    Sneak up and spam most damaging attacks
    If target manages to survive or you mess up somehow, pop invis again to disengage and reset fight
    Re-engage and repeat until target dies

    They fight completely on their terms with blitz tactics only they have access to and the chance of killing a thief is much lower than just driving it off temporarily until they reset and re-engage.

    ------------------------

    Interesting idea about the health being less, although I think half will be over-kill.

    Stalker goes invis, sneak attacks target, blows through his attacks and the target is now at half HP, meaning they are equal to yours, yet they now have full access to all their attacks while yours are on CD, putting you at a distinct disadvantage. They way I see it that would play out in one of two ways:

    1 - You go all-out on damage and pray to whatever gods you worship that you get your target's health to 0 before he drops you

    2 - You go half/half damage and CC, after blowing the damages attacks you CC like your life depends on it (which it will) until your attacks are off CD. Rinse, repeat. Additional praying is optional.

    And just to be clear - I'm fully aware I could be talking out of my ass right now as I don't know what skills will be available or how they would function. Just a theoretical scenario
  9. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    I didn't play a ton of GW2 just cause the organization and the whole paid ticket thing was the worst PvP setup in history but I remember the stealth skills being 3-5 seconds in duration. Second being on LAS they had to sacrifice potential CC / Defensive CDs / Burst to get that stealth.

    Anyway, regardless I've just never been a fan of perma stealth. I just think it's a plain stupid mechanic agree or disagree. I just think the mechanic needs some sort of skill tied in to it. Good players should stand out in how they use their stealth. There needs to be a risk/reward to using it not something that is 100% available with unlimited duration and absolutely no consequence. About the only one I think got it close to right was WAR with 30 second duration... Anything but permanent.

    Edit to add: But then you have those rogues like in WoW that can vanish at 10% health and hide like a <REDACTED> for what seems like forever then suddenly they open on you with full health. So maybe to take it even further stealth out of combat 30 seconds, stealth used in combat like a vanish maybe only lasts 5-10 seconds to reposition, re-open, or apply CC or something. Something that requires more skill than just hiding forever... lol
  10. Dedlaw

    Dedlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yeah most stealth skills lasted 3sec, 4 if traited which most of the do. But what they did was drop a smoke field that blinds you, do 2 or 3 quick leaps to stack invisibility and in the space of 2 seconds they now have 8-12secs to get away from you, all the while removing conditions, regenerating health and initiative, and more than likely resetting the fight before you even get hold of them again.

    Yes they sacrifice CC and defensive, but definitely not burst. Their initiative mechanic means they are practically designed for burst. Their low defensive is only an issue for them if they fight a similar high burst opponent (I know I could kill them for the most part as a Rifle Warrior fully specced for damage). Anyone else and they can just retreat before they die. As I said, you might be able to drive them off, but not likely to kill them.
  11. Grimnar40k

    Grimnar40k Cupcake-About-Town

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    I lol'd when I saw "rifle warrior"... I remember that and honestly it was specs like that was a big reason a lot of people thought the pvp was a complete joke... spam bleeds x1,000,000 on pretty much every ability. skill mode pvp

    As for Stalker stealth mechanics I saw a video, although it was from February, that showed a resource meter that built up to 100 when out of stealth and ticked down toward 0 when using stealth which suggest there is definitely a limit. Now I've also heard they have changed that since so no idea. This would be a nice idea though in my opinion. Anything but permanent.
  12. Dedlaw

    Dedlaw Cupcake-About-Town

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    Lol, my rifle warr is for WvW roaming, zerker glass cannon, warr is over-all too sub-par for PvP IMO
  13. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

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    I would actually like to see a different approach to stealth then the usual mmorpg standard we usually see.

    The class name of Stalker seems to imply a more predator like aspect of gameplay, so maybe permastealth while you are standing still and timed/partial stealth as you move. Tht might add a more strategic positioning and timing aspect to attacking ppl then WoW's skirt wide around them and hit macro or GW2's teleport from 1500m and insta 22k macro.

    I love stealth classes in all types of games but I wont deny the inherent cheapness aspect that most of them bring. Being able to sit and plan an attack on enemies that cannot see you seems to be an advantage that is very difficult to balance against.

    Also the biggest GW2 cheapness with thieves came more from a design flaw when they added culling to WvW so all thieves get an extra few seconds of invisibility to go along with their incredibly easy disengage skills and OP burst potential. After removing culling they once again had to try and balance the class.
  14. binzer

    binzer Cupcake

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    I've never played a rogue, but personally, I think they should be able to get off their stealthed opening combos off 95% of the time (so I have no problem with permastealth). It's tough being a melee class because usually you just get kited and cced all day, so that opener is the one chance to assassinate someone and come out on top. Sure, one-on-one, a rogue type character is often going to win a fight if he gets the jump on you. That being said, he's not going to be nearly as useful in a team fight, where he'll be lucky to kill someone before he dies (especially without a vanish ability). Also, it takes a long time to run away from a ranged character if you're melee (running usually results in death) so that's a disadvantage that balances it all out too.

    A warrior type character works because it can can just be beefy through all the disadvantages of being melee, and it usually has some gap closers too (pulls or dashes).

    I feel like Rogues really need that stealth to be viable and work in pvp. It's not about every single situation being balanced; it's about balance overall (for example, a healer may suck at duels, but be the most valuable character in a team fight). You just have to pick your battles :)
  15. Bifurcation

    Bifurcation Cupcake

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    I'm not a big fan of stealth classes. There are tons of problems that have been associated with the ability. I've seen it abused to the extremes, and I have seen fail randomly and miserably in certain games (failing for the stealthier that is). I hope they get it right.

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