1. Hey Guest! If you're more than just a WildStar fan and want to keep up on the latest MMO news, reviews and opinion pieces then I'd like to suggest you visit our sister site MMO Central

Swapable Action Sets Hampered by Gear Dependency

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Paterk, Nov 17, 2013.

  1. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I've been a big proponent of the swapable action sets proposed by Wildstar. Being able to switch to a support role when needed will solve a lot of grouping/raiding frustrations. But the more I've delved into Wildstar, the more I am beginning to hate this Assault/Support Power ethos.

    Watch the Esper Live Stream. A viewer ask a question about this at 8:13

    http://www.twitch.tv/wildstar/b/480349580

    You can tell by the answer from the Lead Character Designer that he knows there is a flaw in the swapable action sets.

    Though you can switch out your abilities anytime outside of combat, they aren't going to preform well if you don't have the right stats to empower them. Yes they are giving us the ability to swap gear AND abilities per each action set ....But really? Is Carbine requiring we manage two sets of gear throughout the whole game?

    This freedom they are giving us isn't really freedom at all.

    So ether Carbine wants us to manage double the amount of gear in our inventories, or we really are stuck only using the skills in our ability set that feed off our current stats.

    Same old horse, different carrot.
    jessetrevor, nomotog and Roda like this.
  2. Psistorm

    Psistorm Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Likes Received:
    190
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Well, consider that the other way out of this would be to make gear meaningless and reducing it to "biggest number = best". If gear wasn't situational, aka best for healer/tank/dps or more granular builds, then we might as well not have it at all.

    Personally I have no problem managing several sets of gear, but there is a bit IF. Namely IF they give us ways to manage gear efficiently. FF14 did pretty much the ideal thing with their armory chest, basically a second inventory where items go that you wear and that belong to gear sets you have. Keeps the inventory clear of clutter and helps you immensely in managing your itemization. So if they pull off something similar, I have no trouble with this whatsoever.
    Otherwise, addons may need to fill the gap until an official solution happens.

    But yeah, in the end, unless you want to make gear into a meaningless plain number, then yes, heal-geared espers trying to dps will not do as much dps as they could. That is fully intentional. We just need a way to easily manage multiple sets of gear, because this is a scenario that will likely affect many people, much like most of the ff14 population has multiple jobs, and as such will need to manage multiple full sets of gear.
    Kidney, Alverad, Leviathain and 4 others like this.
  3. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    yep. I imagine having 2 gear character loadout UIs. Another important way for this to work, is to make obtaining both sets of gear as natural as possible. Please don't make us grind for assault and support gear during the leveling process.

    And I fully agree with gear specializing itself for certain roles. It adds dat flavor.

    I just don't like how Carbine is kinda advertising the game as being "Play how you want, Anytime you want". Its kinda misleading. At least to me.
  4. Denym

    Denym New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Belgium
    It's quite obvious and necessary that you need 2 different sets of gear for healing and dps. I don't think I fully understand your problem? Were you expecting that you could change healer and dps all the time with the same set of armour?

    Also, you are free to change between the various dps-abilities and healing-abilities with the same set of gear. Only the healing abilities will be less effective if your wearing dps-gear, which they should be and vice versa.

    If I'm getting something wrong about your post, please say so. :p
  5. AreoBB

    AreoBB New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Not to drag another game into this discussion, but Blizzard recently stated that they are aiming to do something interesting in regards to gear and specs. When switching specs, your gear would switch a bit too so that it more closely aligned with whatever role you were attempting to play. I realize this would be difficult in a game like Wildstar, especially given that we don't know exactly how "speccing" works, but just kind of something to keep in mind. I'd love to extrapolate more on how I think this all could work, but unfortunately I'm about to step out the door!

    (Also, I'm totally stealing this as a topic for my blog, as I think it's a very interesting point of conversation.)
  6. Satarn

    Satarn Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2013
    Likes Received:
    72
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Carbine has never stated that they allow us to switch our roles freely. The purpose of swapping LAS is to adjust to the next fight/situation -in- your chosen role. Even if you're a healer atm, you may need more burst for certain fights and more HoTs for others etc. It's also nice for leveling, because even build for support roles AMP-wise, you can still change your skills to dps to deal with mobs a little faster. Honestly, gear is less of an "issue" than AMPs, because you probably can't just change them with one button like the saved equipment, not to mention it costs money.

    Any mmorpg with hybrid classes requires you to change certain things to swap roles, be it glyphs, talents, stigmas or whatever build system the game uses and usually it's also the gear. Wildstar is just not trying to change it. Nothing misleading here.
    Siflay and Livnthedream like this.
  7. RavenWind

    RavenWind Well-Known Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    287
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Actually on several occasions the DEVs have mentioned Swap-able Action Sets, though the info on them has been limited it seems these will allow you to save/switch LAS, AMPS, and Armor with a single click while OOC. I think the ESPER LiveStream they talk about it briefly when Hugh leaves and they are getting ready to enter the dungeon. Maybe just before the Duel.
  8. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Its not a "flaw". Your comments about the "grind" are foolish for a number of reasons, the primary one being its inherent in the genre. It needs to be to make money, but also because large segments of the player base both accept it and enjoy it. Yes, you should be expected to maintain 2 different sets of gear if you expect to be able to dps and heal/tank to the utmost, that is one of the big reasons that gear exists, to make you better at what you do. The las is to allow you to specialize for the task at hand. If a boss is all single target with no adds, you can drop aoe abilities to include more burst, or cc. On the other hand if a boss has adds, now you have to make a choice between aoe, especially types of aoe, and cc. It makes for a much more specific group dynamic, and allows for much more fluid/fast paced combat because its now not asking the player to make too many different decisions in limited amounts of time.

    Really though, this did not need a new thread. This is the same discussion that has been hashed out 50 times before on this board alone.
    atom, Afrotech, Narrack and 1 other person like this.
  9. oppi26

    oppi26 Cupcake

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    49
    Trophy Points:
    18
    So in the Warrior live stream Frost did mention they are working on being able to make a set for full builds that include armor, amps, and abilities.

    To be fair, this makers perfect sense. You can heal in DPS gear but in Healing gear it'll be better. I wouldn't call it a flaw though. It's there by design, which it should be. Otherwise, as said before, gear becomes meaningless.
    Deadmeat and Sonntam like this.
  10. nra

    nra Cupcake

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2013
    Likes Received:
    97
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Sweden
    The problem you present is based on the fact that you want to play two roles.
    The latter is not mandatory, hence handling two sets of gear is not mandatory.
    You are free to choose if you want to or not.
  11. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Looks like we got a hero on our hands boys.
  12. Livnthedream

    Livnthedream Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    May 20, 2013
    Likes Received:
    1,090
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope, just someone who has a clue.
    Mellkor and teh_ninjaneer like this.
  13. Paterk

    Paterk Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Likes Received:
    126
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    So for the most part I agree with everyone here, and most would have caught that is they had read the third comment int the thread.

    I'm mostly worried about this limitation during leveling. I remember playing swtor and having his problem with role fulfillment (especially in the heroic sections of a zone). Finding able groups to do some of the more enjoyable content in the zones became I
    Possible after awhile. I was just hoping wildstar was going to have an answer for this with the action sets.

    I mean if they tune some of the content to be manageable with dps geared people able to heal or tank, then I would find value in that.

    Just wished that when u switched roles it would turn assault Into support or vice versa. Other stats like moxie and brutality would be unchanged. In a system like this you still wouldn't be optimal, but it would make all your abilities viable. I personally don't see an issue with being able to do both roles when I want.

    Regardless, carbine has been concerned with gear inhibiting player choice. This issue is the main cause, and I don't think adding tiers or amps might be enough.

    Eh but what do I know, I'm only a casual adult player.
  14. Brisselio

    Brisselio New Cupcake

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Likes Received:
    18
    Trophy Points:
    3
    OP I really can't see where the problem lies. As plenty of other people have said, sure you can heal in Dps gear but is it going to be amazing? No. If they take away gear than there wouldn't be much to chase besides how you want to look.
  15. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Land of Hugs!
    I'm still planning for my main character to be an esper. When playing, I'm going to collect gear for both support and DPS. In most groups, I'll probably use a Support LAS with maybe one or two attacks that have a crowd control effect. Yet on my own, I'll use a mostly DPS set with a little support to heal and take care of myself like anyone else.

    I think the main thing that concerns people is the ease of switching between two layouts. Not just LAS, but equipment. We do need the ability to save and load LAS layouts with the touch of a button. Likewise, we could also use a separate button to switch the gear we are wearing to match the LAS we loaded. We may have a LAS layout for pure DPS, one for Solo, one for PvP, one for Support/Tank. More than half of those options also work best with the right gear. Especially Support/Tank.

    It think what makes people concerned is that we have not seen them use this quick swap in the livestreams. In the Esper livestream, they always brought up the Abilities list and switched them out manually. I didn't even notice the Esper switching equipment in the stream.
  16. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    28
    More Customization = good

    Higher ceiling to be maximized at a role = good

    Please go play WoW if this isn't for you.
    Alverad and Brisselio like this.
  17. Dargenus

    Dargenus Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2013
    Likes Received:
    80
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Location:
    Hotlanta
    I don't think that's a problem, honestly... ultimately, if you want to specialize, you should reap the rewards for that. And if you're willing to put in the work to have multiple loadouts work well, more power to you. As long as everyone is open to build the character they want. :)
  18. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Likes Received:
    744
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Land of Hugs!
    A lot of specialization in role seems like it will be linked to the talent tree mentioned in the warrior livestream. To change that we have to pay in game money for a respec. It's going to be interesting to see what those talents are and how they work in the coming months.
  19. Tex Arcana

    Tex Arcana Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2013
    Likes Received:
    130
    Trophy Points:
    33
    [​IMG]

    Why does it ALWAYS come back to this with some of you people? Why can't someone post a thought without some keyboard jockey swinging "Go Play WoW?" at their head?

    Holy <REDACTED>, I hope all you guys settle on one server so those of us with better people skills don't have to deal with you. Ugh.
  20. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    28


    It's the internet, I respond to posts of integrity with replies of integrity.

    This OP had no purpose, or explanations.
    Livnthedream likes this.

Share This Page