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The Return of the Flying Mount Thread

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Yakzan, May 15, 2013.

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  1. Ryan Wrocklage

    Ryan Wrocklage Cupcake

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    This entire line of discussion is ridiculous. If you're leveling and WANT to be potentially attacked, because you like that kind of thing, then you won't fly. If your goal is to level while being in danger, you won't fly. If however you want to level without being attacked then you fly. Clearly the thing killing your PVP is those people choosing to NOT PVP. Your answer is only to force them to deal with something they clearly don't want to be dealing with.

    Also above where someone said "that's what cities and houses are for" in regards to places to avoid PVP. This is your opinion on the limitations of safe zones. Other people think "that's what cities, houses, and flying mounts are for." If I want to go AFK I'd much prefer flying up and getting a drink as opposed to porting to a city or my house. Actually if you think more about it, flight promotes PVP in this way. If everyone was forced to port somewhere every time they wanted to afk for a minute that would take people out of the world longer. Those afk guys have less travel time to and from where they are questing or whatever, so they are potentially targets longer.
  2. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    While I agree with your post, unfortunately sometimes we need the people who don't want to PVP to just... die. I know, I know, it sounds horrible. But if there is no victim? There can be no PKer. If there is no PKer? There can be no PKKer. It's sad to refer to them in a 'bottom of the food chain' manner but unfortunately...

    ...it is, what it is? :speechless:
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  3. Ryan Wrocklage

    Ryan Wrocklage Cupcake

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    I also think this would be an awesome idea. I saw somewhere they mentioned mounts would have abilities or something like that. Maybe some kind of anti gravity thing which makes it crash if your both flagged. That would be pretty cool and would definitely add a new dimension to aerial fights. If you have to actually chase someone down in the air to get into range to blast them down. That could be really fun. Imagine an entire group of people in an aerial battle like this.
  4. Xaroc

    Xaroc New Cupcake

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    I just simply don't like the idea of a warzone being a safe place to rest(afk), in each zone there's plenty of places where you can be safe like a town or even a hiding spot but when you're in the middle of a battlefield you shouldn't be able to just fly up in the air and rest your head.
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  5. Ryan Wrocklage

    Ryan Wrocklage Cupcake

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    I can see your point when you put it like that. AFking over a quest hub is one thing but yea just sitting afk over the middle of nowhere would be kind of annoying. They really need some limiting factor.

    Again I'd REALLY like to see a dev post on how flight is planning on being implemented before they decided to listen to the opinions of the community. If we had an idea of what they planned we'd be better informed on how it could potentially be awesome or bad.
  6. Mayjinx

    Mayjinx Cupcake

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    Please don't give me the hole community malarkey because there are plenty of games out there without flight and your so called community is a close nit group of asses ..or dumb people running around like ass hats..there is no more community like before i get the feeling all the no-fly boys are from the old MMO school mostly trying to live out there hay days again..trust me fly or no fly its never going to be the same again you will never get that same feeling you did or i did for that matter..iv seen the changes and know i cant change the masses of people coming in the mmo genera with a bad attitude...so fly isn't going to destroy the community its the community it self that is going to do it!
  7. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think it's all just semantics. You're entitled to care, but not to have others care that you care. If such self-absorbed dominion over all territory above a given elevation is part of your interpretation of the Path then so be it, but that's no reason for everyone else to allow you to take away their flight privileges.

    Then I guess the conclusion we'll have to settle with is "that's just too bad."

    If you want world PvP, go play that DAoC reboot thing, It made a million bucks on kickstarter, because that many people wanted a serious PvP game.

    But if they're just up in the sky, removed from the world, then clearly they aren't interested in PvP at the moment. It's not your place to say that they must fight with you if they don't want to.

    No.
  8. alan

    alan Cupcake

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    Solutions!
    So heres a few awesome ideas i came up with to give people who want flying mounts what they want, without actually adding flying mounts in the game.

    For quick traveling, and not having to deal with the time sink or an other pesky things the environment throws at you such as mobs or unclimbable mountains, is to add a teleport ability. This would provide instant travel anywhere , so you wouldn't have to waste time actually moving anywhere.

    For PvP in PvP servers it should be the players choice to fight, and if they don't want to fight they wont have to worry about it. Before a player can attack you in any situation they have to type /duel. A box then pops up for the person you want to attacks screen and they have the choice to duel or not to duel. That way you can go afk safe anywhere and not have to worry about surprise attacks or high level ganks. All you have to say is no. You shouldn't have to fight or be bothered in a PvP server if you don't want to be bothered, it should be your choice.

    For the possibility that you might feel like your accomplishments doing jumping puzzle or any type of exploring might be trivialized by players being able to instantly teleport to the goal... Well there have be plenty of people here saying that it wont trivialize it for you, and they know best about how something would make you feel. Why would they lie... so no worries.

    For the social aspect being dissolved by the lack of actual traveling and seeing people in the games world. Well this one is tricky. WoW had a pretty good solution with LFR. At any time you want you can Q up for a raid... The game will magically teleport you to a place you have no idea how to get to on your own with 39 random other people who will likely be super sociable and friendly. You guys are all there for the same thing so that will force teamwork and friendship that will last. After the raid you will likely add all those people to your friends list, so feel free to act anyway you see fit. For the immersion issue outside of LFR, the game could spawn 20-30 NPC around you that will behave as player, that way the world will at least feel like its alive.

    There you go, that fixes all the issues both sides have. It's the best of both worlds!!! BLAM i should make video games for a living..

    Excuse my hyperbole
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  9. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    You're talking about Camelot Unchained, and while I backed it (with no actual intentions of playing it ever) I believe rumor has it that ESO has more of a potential of being 'the next DAoC' than Camelot Unchained does... or so they say.
  10. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    That actually happened often in Guild Wars 2's WvWvW... players would queue up for map completion, jump puzzles, gathering nodes, taming pets, and various other reasons instead of to PVP. The funny thing is that even though these players had no intention of involving themselves in PVP; they actually effected the outcome of many battles without even knowing simply by being there with the 'Outnumbered' buff in effect. So players that deserved the 'Outnumbered' buff would not receive it because the non-PVPers in the area would throw off the actual numbers of those involved in PVP.
  11. Drayhken

    Drayhken New Cupcake

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    Following this thread the 2 main reasons against flying mounts seem to be

    1/ Lack of social interaction.

    My first MMO was SWG (actually it was probably some Mechwarrior MUD when I was a kid but I digress), after that I moved to WoW and what struck straight away was the lack of social interaction even in Vanilla compared to Galaxies. In SWG you had reasons to socially interact such as Battle fatigue which reduced your stats after spending a lot of time in combat, the way to remove this was to chill out and relax in a cantina watching dancers and listening to musicians. This drew large groups of players together who would usually end up chatting and socialising before heading out for more adventures.

    Another reason to interact was Trading, I had a shop on Tattooine which I spent ages decorating to look like a proper shop and had my vendors stocked with items and equipment so people would enjoy checking it out. However to get players to actually come to my shop I had to go into town and advertise it and actually talk to people, sometimes bartering and other times trying to acquire stuff they were looking for.

    Player made content seems to be a good way of bringing people together, maybe this is what Carbine are trying to do with Player made housing dungeon plugin's?

    2/ It eliminates open world PvP.

    In SWG Guilds could declare war on each other, this meant that opposing guild members were always flagged to each other and the only way this ended was one of the guild leaders surrendering to the other. This lead to some epic open world PvP, as we often would raid other guilds cities or hang out in front of a major starport until an enemy showed up, kill him and wait for retaliation from the rest of their guild. Also, the mounts were attackable so if someone tried to get away using their mount, you could attack it and wreck it leaving them running for their lives.

    Now, I'm not saying Wildstar should implement these features directly, but what I am saying is that its not the mounts that are problem but actually the lack of systems in place which brings people together to socialise or to PvP each other.

    Another couple of points raised were that flying mounts would make the world feel smaller and trivialise the Explorer content but at this point we have no idea how big Nexus . I'm fairly confident that Carbine have taken this into account already seeing as the game has been designed from the start to include flying so I would doubt that they would allow it to ruin the explorer path or let flying make the world feel so small that you could just bypass it with your spaceship. I think while its been good to point this out, its maybe a little to early to worry about it too much?
  12. alan

    alan Cupcake

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    I do think people are making too big a deal about paths, and think they are going to add a whole new level to the game.. From what I'm getting, they are just extra quest you get on top of the already set quest that are leaned more to discovery of the zone , some being which are jumping games. Now if they are a big part of the game, and are challenging then those people have every right to express what will belittle their achievements. And no one should have to right to say "well to bad" "deal with it" or "no it wont trivialize it". And the solutions to add invisible walls and not allow flying mounts near these puzzles is just no a valid option. No one wants to fly over a explores quest puzzle they they didn't know about in the middle of some random area and be dismounted or hit an invisible wall thinking "WTF is this". But i fully agree until we know more, there's no reason to start worrying about this or even bringing it up anymore.
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  13. Dnevnoy

    Dnevnoy Cupcake-About-Town

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    You will fly though because it's a much faster and efficient means of travel. Even if you go hardcore and decide you won't everyone else will be flying. I actually don't care all that much about the PvP side of this argument but I dislike these types of arguments. If you put a system into the game it will effect everyone by changing incentives and optimal ways to play.

    If a player doesn't want to be exposed to random open world PvP then why on earth have they picked a PvP server in the first place?
  14. MMOPapa

    MMOPapa Cupcake-About-Town

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    [​IMG]
  15. Ryan Wrocklage

    Ryan Wrocklage Cupcake

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    Just because you roll on a PVP server doesn't mean you want to participate in it every second of every day. YOu might be that way but not everyone is.

    This is the designers fault for putting those things in the WvW maps. The players only option was to go there to accomplish those thing regardless of whether they wanted to PVP or not.

    Right, but you're generalizing their entire playstyle because they chose to avoid the PVP at the exact minute you encountered them. Someone might be the most avid PVPer ever, but if he goes to get a drink he might go hover out of reach for a while to protect his death count or not have to run back later. What's wrong with this? Just because you happened by then and it inconvenienced you?
  16. Compella

    Compella Cupcake

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    You don't sound like a WPvP person. I think you should just stop trying to sell flying mounts to us.
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  17. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    I'll field this one.

    What exactly is a "WPvP" person, in your mind? Is it someone who ganks other, likely lower level players by swooping in on your flying mount, sight unseen? Is that the world PvP you are worried about preserving?

    Or is a "WPvPer" someone who rides around the landscape on their ground mounts with packs of their friends, searching for opposing players to skirmish, and honorably charging them in battle on an even playing field?

    Just want to set the baseline for what a world PvPer is.
  18. Compella

    Compella Cupcake

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    WPvP is everything you mentioned. Making kids cry and "honorably charging" the rest.

    And hold on, did you just admit that flying mounts help with ganking lowbies?! Another reason not to have them.
  19. Joukehainen

    Joukehainen Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm just going to pop in and say for world PvP, you have to take the good with the bad. Don't go AFK in areas where you can get ganked.

    Even if you do get ganked while afk, okay, it's not like deaths are more than a minor inconvenience in modern MMOs, anyways. :p If you remove all of the inconveniences in games and hand-hold players because something in a massively multiplayer game with an open world might not be what ever player feels like doing at every moment, well. Not only would that not work, but it wouldn't be terribly fun. There has to be risk and loss for rewards to feel "worth it."
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  20. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    See, that's the problem. The players that WANT to PvP are on the ground doing it. The ones that don't? They're in the sky. Forcing a situation other than that is counter to good game design.

    I sense a lot of hypocrisy in the folks that argue they want to preserve "world PvP" by killing players who aren't interested in fighting.

    The freedom and sense of scale that flying mounts give far outweighs any argument about "creating" world PvP by removing them. Players that want to avoid it are going to do it in any case... ground mount, flying mount. doesn't matter. This is just hollow reasoning.

    I'm all for advancing the idea of what flying mounts can be in an MMO, but taking them away is in the completely wrong direction for the genre.

    Forward, not backwards.
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