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The Role of a Healer and Telegraph Mechanics

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Tekzzz, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Tekzzz

    Tekzzz New Cupcake

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    Hello Wildstar community!

    Firstly let me introduce myself, My name is Tekzzz. I have been an MMO healer since 2005 mainly in WoW (apologies in advance as I know the sour taste of some of these fights will linger with many members of the community)

    A question about healing in Wildstar has puzzled my brain this week and I want to write down what my thought process has been so far in the hope of finding a solution.

    Little Disclaimer: I have not had the Wildstar beta invite (insert rage) so I have readied myself to be proven wrong. Also would just like to say this is my opinion, this is not fact, just my thought process.

    Ok here we go... With the new Telegraphing system in Wildstar being demonstrated, 2 immediate thoughts hit me: 1) Well done for encouraging those to stand out of things, it is a good habit to get into. 2) If people are avoiding the damage... where will the healing be needed?

    So I decided to break down what damage can one player take in a standard fight:

    -Boss normal damage
    -Add normal damage
    -Fight ability damage
    -DoT debuff damage
    -Mass aoe raid damage
    (apologies if i missed anything out but this is just a short overview)

    So I can assume the Boss and Add normal damage will apply to the tanks as they will have the threat which will have to be healable, so no arguments there.

    The DoT ability damage and Mass aoe raid damage (I assume) will be unavoidable.

    The fight mechanics however I assume will be telegraphed and therefore avoidable.

    So I don't want to waffle on for ages so here is my main question I really would like answered:

    'With the introduction to the Telegraph system and it being easier to avoid certain damage, will this reduce the need for healers OR reduce the amount of healers needed for the raid?'

    My thought process on this was from the point of view of a top world PvE guild. They will be good enough to take the minimal amount of damage needed, so why would they use a healer slot for healing that isn't needed?

    Thanks for taking the time to read this unecessarily long piece but I really put a lot of thought into this.
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  2. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    It may end up being a case of figuring out which telegraph to stand in during which phase so you take the least amount of damage rather then no damage at all.
    For example:
    In phase 1 of a boss fight, the circle telegraph rock falling damage is massive but you can stand in the line telegraphs of random fire damage from molten lava as its not that bad and can be healed through . Standing in the lava also gives you a damage buff/bonus that lets you kill adds.
    In phase 2, the adds are no longer popping, and the lava is nastier and adds a dot. So now you avoid line telegraphs but now standing in circle telegraphs from the boss gives you a poison dot, but this dot also gives you a passive damage reduction from rock falling damage which is everywhere now.
    In phase 3, the ground has split open and the raid has to dance from safe ground to safe ground but has to run through lava occasionally while still damaging the boss. Staying for the least amount of time in lava is important not to tax your healer but the dot debuff increases your damage but can be dispelled. So it becomes a fine dance of removing the dot on someone who has low health and has to be healed up before running through lava again vs letting the dot stay on dps for as long as possible to boost damage.

    Im sure there are other ways of doing this but that scenario would still require the same amount of healers.

    Although to be very honest, there were a lot of fights I can think off at the top of my head that didnt have raid wide damage, and had easily avoidable damage ( run out of circles ) from raids that still required the same amount of healers ( I guess the one from the top of my head is some fights from hyjal - caverns of time or tempest keep ).
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  3. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    Void zones exist in WoW, after 8 years people are still standing in the fire.

    It's fair to say players in WildStar will also stand in the fire. I know I'd feel safer bringing raid heals.
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  4. Ellianar

    Ellianar Cupcake-About-Town

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    People will stand in the telegraphs, don't worry :D With groups as large as 20 and 40 men i think we ll see busy healers, at least if your group is so perfect nobody gets hit by a telegraph ( ROFL ) bosses will still have auto attacks that will hurt your MT's .
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  5. Volktar

    Volktar Cupcake

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    I can understand your questions if you've only healed in wow.
    Ive also TYPICALLY filled the role of a healer throughout my MMOs.

    WoW (vanilla through Cata)
    Rift
    Tera
    SWTOR
    GW2 (what little healing there is there)

    Etc.
    If you really want to get an idea of what W* healing is going to be like, I suggest you check out Tera.
    Its combat system isnt exactly like W*, but its the closest thing you'll find out there, and may give you a leg up on the learning curve fro ma healing perspective.

    Tera is currently F2P.

    Aside from that, you are goign to have to get used to predicting your team. You will have to get accustomed to knowing where your heals will land BEFORE you cast them. It sounds like a lot, but after a while it becomes second nature, and IMO, makes healing more fulfilling. The difference between a GOOD healer and a BAD healer will really stand out with this system.
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  6. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    Actually, this game has both traditional healing (frame-based) and telegraphed healing. It's really not like Tera and people don't seem to grasp this. You're going to make use of both, and that's not the case in Tera and on top of that remove the crosshair and frame-locked camera. I think the best description I've heard thus far is the lovechild between Warcraft and GW2.
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  7. Mel

    Mel Cupcake-About-Town

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    Should healing and GW2 be alowed in the same statement? GW2 did to healing what SOE did to SWG.(sorry if you miss the bus on that one)

    Healing should be fun and challenging...
    I disliked what WOW did with healing and limiting the mana pool.
    Make Healing OP! We already know our DPS will stink.....
  8. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    I meant for the combat in general. Obviously the healing is nothing like GW2.
  9. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    The camera may not be locked but your telegraphs will come out from your character's feet so you will need to aim your character in the direction you want to heal with the telegraph, so it will function in much the same way that TERA's heals do. And from what we've read so far, they are trying to minimize the amount of frame based traditional heals and focus on free form aiming telegraphed skills which they've already said will generally be more efficient anyway.

    But as for the OP's question, based on my experience healing endgame in TERA and a few other similar games (RaiderZ and Neverwinter being two of them) you still most definitely need healers. Even skilled groups make mistakes, and there are often boss mechanics that require them to take damage. On top of that, healers in those types of games often played an important supportive role when they weren't healing - actively buffing, debuffing, using group mana return skills, CCing, etc., since they could afford the time to do so it became an important part of their job. I don't know if we'll end up building our Wildstar healer's to do the same or if we'll be more pure healers, but either way I do think we will still be vital members of a group or raid.
  10. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'd say they will include enough unavoidable damage to make it necessary for a certain threshold of healing required.
    Whether this will be via general raid damage or damage purely on the tanks (assuming healers can stack heals on the tank and it's not something like AoC which had mechanics against simply having multiple tank healers spamming away) is something we'll have to see.

    As you mention, as raid skill levels increase, the need for healing should decrease due to less avoidable damage being taken. Pretty much every raiding guild will try to run with the minimum number of healers needed to clear the content, even if there's no enrage timers to beat it still means you will be clearing faster with more dps, thus freeing up more time for progression attempts (or anything else you need/want to do).

    They may have thought of this on a different level, seeing that every healer capable class has dps as it's alternate role allowing raids to switch between healing and dps as skill levels improve and they find the optimal balance between healing/dps for themselves.
    This doesn't help people who wish to stick to one specific role, although the minimum required number of healers may tie in with a guilds number of 'dedicated' healers (if not then they'll have to reach some solution themselves such as rotation or having the best healers on progression raids etc).

    Not really concerns but my thoughts on healing are along the lines of making sure specific targets get priority for heals - such as tanks. We know there are single target heals in the game so that's one method, if there are aoe heal telegraphs that hit multiple targets will we have to juggle telegraph position to ensure we hit tank + minimum additional targets ie if a heal hits 5 targets we only hit 4 others in addition to the tank to ensure the tank gets healed. Is it a smart heal based system that prioritises lowest health or can it prioritise tanks (so we could angle the heal to cover the melee group + tank and it will heal the 4 lowest health melee + the tank instead of the 5 lowest health melee), does it simply take the closest targets inside the heal telegraph for priority.
    Hopefully we have a method of focusing heals onto the tanks otherwise I can see some interesting positional play being required to ensure aoe heals still hit the tank (assuming you are not just having a tank healer(s) spamming a single target heal).

    Not sure if that's what you were looking for but it's an excuse for me to babble on so I took it :D
  11. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    Except that the devs have stated in IRC frame healing is there and depending on how you kit out determines the type of healer you are. Also, that there are classes that half less than half of their entire ability list that are free-form target spells. You're basing everything on an old interview.
  12. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Positioning will be an important thing to be aware of regardless.
  13. Veckna

    Veckna Well-Known Cupcake

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    Of course, but having your dps/tank aware of related positioning relevant to their current health + healer position and rotating in and out of a possibly changing 'sweet spot' for healing adds an additional dynamic to the normal 'don't stand in the fire/pewpew the boss/don't los or outrange healers' mechanics most will be familiar with.
    That was more what I was trying to highlight when I mentioned interesting positional play (as it differs from what's normally required). Hope that makes more sense for you.
  14. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Oh yea I agree, everyone will need to be aware of positioning both in regards to the boss, each other, and their tanks and healers. It will certainly add an extra layer of skill that should be a lot of fun. There was some of that in TERA so I'm looking forward to seeing what Carbine does.
  15. Zaekath

    Zaekath New Cupcake

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    What you described is pretty much exactly how most WoW raids worked.

    Some tank damage
    Some Raid wide damage
    Some avoidable damage (That the -one guy- always got hit by)

    Even the very best guilds used about the same number of healers as everyone else.
  16. azmundai

    azmundai Well-Known Cupcake

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    simply put having a telegraph system doesn't necessarily make it possible to avoid all damage. for example there could be a situation where there are multiple telegraphs you have to avoid at the same time, so the skill is choosing the right one to avoid.
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  17. Sayantan

    Sayantan Cupcake

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    I am kinda curious how telegraphed heals will work in a 40 man raid. Assuming 8-10 healers, that's a lot of healing telegraphs. Plus the boss damage telegraph. Lot of ground clutter. Add AoE spell effects.

    "I could not see your heal telegraph because stupid pally's consecration was covering it."
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  18. dizko

    dizko Cupcake-About-Town

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    Maybe it can be organized into smaller groups? For example, 8 groups of 5 and you perhaps can set it so that you only see the telegraphs that come from your own group?

    This is also potentially an area where addon creators can fill a need if it's not there by default.
  19. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well healer telegraphs are going to be a different color for one thing so they'll be the only green ones you see (and if healing telegraphs are overlapping I don't really see that as being a problem). But as for boss telegraphs, based on what we've seen in videos, the actual red spot will only be on the ground briefly before the actual skill animation shows up so it will be like any other game I think and the same goes for player effects. Plus, not every skill from either bosses or players will be leaving a lasting effect on the ground, especially for physical classes. I don't think there will be as much ground clutter in practice as it seems like right now.

    And from playing TERA for a while I've learned that you don't really need to look at the telegraphs after a while. They're helpful for learning where skills will hit but you eventually memorize all of that and are paying more attention to the actual fight and not really staring at the ground. As long as they don't design overly flashy effects that make it hard to see (like Sorc's Hailstorm in TERA if anyone has seen that), then I think we'll be fine.
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  20. PackOfHighly

    PackOfHighly New Cupcake

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    Why do I feel like raids are going to feel like learning a choreography routine?

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