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What about the smaller PVE guilds?

Discussion in 'Guilds, Circles and Warparties General' started by michii88, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Katu_Kath

    Katu_Kath Robot Cupcake

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    individually, yes. as a guild? no. a guild that can organize 40 people at once, get a raid boss down or complete the raid, in my eyes, is a much better raiding guild than one that can do the same in the 20 man raid. It shows me that they have great leaders, and great guild members who are able and willing to follow direction. I am not saying that 20 man raid guilds dont have these qualities as well, but I hold more renown for the guilds that can do it with 40, simply because it does take more work, more time, and more effort to do so.
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  2. Yushi

    Yushi Cupcake

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    I'll have to agree with you there. My best time raiding weren't with friend but actually strangers. Not Dungeon finder strangers, but strangers in which i've looked into their guild forums and learn about their reputation on my server.
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  3. michii88

    michii88 Cupcake

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    Ok, so what's up with you and putting attacking others, rather than offering up some suggestions or anything constructive for that matter. It seems you came to just argue what you want and not debate or offer up suggestions in anyway. Had you read the whole thread you would have realized that everyone that wanted smaller raid content (except one) were pve driven enough to find an alternative to joining a big guild (I have even considered joining a bigger guild, because of the options on the table as of now). Don't berate, attack or generalize our personalities because of the playing experience we would like to see implemented into a game we are following just like you. It is not positive, nor is it productive to the community.

    Sure I would be willing to join a bigger guild to get that sense that you speak of. I would've also have to chime in with Naunet, with feeling a slightly guarded about it. I love endgame PVE so if joining a bigger guild is the end all to get me to that point, then that's what i would have to do. Love raiding to much to ever quit on it:inlove:.
  4. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    <Mod Monocle> Final warning. Please try to keep personal attacks to a minimum or I will lock the thread. </Mod Monocle>
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  5. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    I'm just gonna put this out there in case folks missed it before (I haven't been here in 6 pages :)

    But Pappy (Chad Moore) at Carbine during one of the PAX interviews stated there are 10 man dungeons, so that would seem to satisfy the small guild, would it not?

    The we've got solo, 5-man, 10-man, 20-man, and 40-man content.

    If you guys can't find something in that bundle then obviously there's nothing that's going to please you.
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  6. Simokon

    Simokon Cupcake-About-Town

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    We are on a forum we must be perpetually dissatisfied with something!
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  7. Honoracy

    Honoracy Cupcake-About-Town

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    Why not do the older elder game content? There is challenges, adventures and heroics. That is perfect small group content. Raid is defined in one way as a "rapid surprise attack on an enemy by troops". Troops can be defined as "a great number or multitude". When I think of a MMO raid, I think 40+ players. I think 20 is even pretty lame, but 10 is just meh. I would agree that you should just get up with another small guild and do 20 man raiding. Then again if raiding is as hard as they claim, I don't think casual 10 man raiders will stand much of a chance :eek:.
  8. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    I believe they posted on reddit that the 10 man comment was not accurate.
  9. Lethality

    Lethality "That" Cupcake

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    Ah, I see. Not a fan of Reddit so don't spend much time there.
  10. Ingsoc

    Ingsoc Cupcake-About-Town

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    I like meeting new people and making new friends. I am just picky about who I spend my leisure time with.

    In all of my 25- and 40-man raid experience, I find that I generally only connect and get along with a few players in the group. The rest of the time, I am "tolerating" loot whores, DPS e-peeners, lazy players, bad players who get carried because of connections in the guild, racists, homophobes, attention seekers, drama queens, and a slew of other distasteful personalities. All in the name of seeing content and beating difficult challenges!

    That doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather get along with most, if not all of my guild, rather than sequester myself in a clique and try to ignore the bad apples. This is entirely possible in a 10-man, not so much in a 25- or 40-player group.

    You asked an honest question, and that's about an honest answer as I can give. No flaming or taking anything personally, that's just how I feel.
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  11. Jord

    Jord New Cupcake

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    <Mod Monocle> Flamebait removed. </Mod Monocle>
    [​IMG]
  12. Drasas

    Drasas Well-Known Cupcake

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    I can understand your reasoning and I respect your answer. I will say that you sound like you've had terribly bad luck with guilds you generally have my sympathy. There are more mature communities out there. "Life is kinda like chatroulette. If you want to make some quality friends you have to wade through some dicks"
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  13. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    From my experience Raiding in EQ2, Rift and ToR (sorry never got into wow), larger scale content 20+ provides opportunity for more challenging content. While easier content of any size allows some room for error where you can carry some deadweight, the hardest content should provide a challenge that requires near perfection for 10min at a time from all raid members. The fact is, getting 10members to be on their A-game at once is much easier then 20 and as such, 20 man content can simply be made more challenging. I love raid bosses that take a month of wiping to actually down for the first time. Munzok and Roehn Theer 4Rune or Akylios from rift come to mind as good examples of bosses that i spent countless hours bashing my face into but were all the more satisfying to down because of it.

    Personally, I have just never found any 10man content that takes very long to beat or gives me that sense of accomplishment. This isn't to say that 10man content isn't a good thing for some, but simply that its not for me. I guess the main problem is, with limited dev time, how many sizes of content can they realistically make. The thing is, we have so many games these days that come out and focus on smaller and smaller size content. Raiding in tor was built around groups of 8 , 8, hell normal group content in EQ2 was 6. Not every game can or should focus on large scale content, but for just once Im hoping the devs realize that there is room in the market for a game large scale raiders can really sink their teeth into.

    As an aside, big raiding guilds do tend to have more drama then personal 10man guilds, but to me this makes them interesting. I love meeting new people in my guild that i might not have even talked to had i met seen them in real life. All of their personalities just serving to make the 20something clear of XXX dungeon more enjoyable. And no mater what guild i join there's always a few people i can form a connection with. I still on a daily basis play games with a few of my friends from the raiding guild i led in rift almost 2 years ago now. It may not be the primary reason i enjoy large scale content but it certainly adds to the experience.
  14. Ego13

    Ego13 Cupcake-About-Town

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    The idea of challenge is rarely realized in anything more than "increase the hp and damage done". The games you referenced are all very static dance-raid games where the challenge comes more from a) can you mitigate enough damage to be healed or b) can you get 15 (usually 5 people in a 20 man are just completely useless) people to avoid stepping in the fire/ooze/falling rocks/retard-sensing-spike-trap. Not to say I didn't enjoy and participate, but the victories always felt hollow.

    Until the challenges become more than "more people means more hp, faster damage, and a couple more areas to avoid on the ground" then there's really not much challenge. Yes, when you go into an encounter barely within the range of gear required then it becomes a challenge because you're trying to get those people that can't even really fulfill their role to perform for once.

    Guess I can hope for more....
  15. lusciifi

    lusciifi Cupcake-About-Town

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    My question to you then. Have you ever played 10man or smaller content that you could realistically get stuck on for more then a night? Maybe i just haven't played enough mmos but i just don't see how you could design 10man content to be as challenging as larger raids. Statistically speaking its just easier to get 10 people to do well at once then 20 even if the average skill level of both groups is the same.

    In addition, larger raids can simply be more complex. I think most people will agree that 5man content can not be designed to be as complex as raids. I don't see why the same would not be true going from 10 to 20 man raids. More people just equals more the devs can throw at you at one time.

    Of course all raid groups will have those that preform better then others but generally in the higher end guilds there are minimal cases of people who just cant seam to get out of the AE's. Its more just a case of getting everyone good enough with the encounter to execute mechanics on top of doing maximal DPS/HPS ect.
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  16. Felion

    Felion Cupcake-About-Town

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    I love raids, I love big raids, but it is for a slightly different reasons than my love for a challenging 5 man dungeon or any other small team PvE fights. "Accomodating weak players is fun" is true, having weaker players in your team basically changes the fight slightly such that each person needs a slightly modified strategy. But there ARE going to be people who would rather not do that, who would rather have more personal control in the matter (probably aligns best with "exploration").

    I've no problem with having just big raids, but since there are going to be 4 cores to this game, I do hope that the other 3 aspects provide challenging end game --- It's a different feeling of satisfaction when you and your buddy, just 2 of you, beat out something that not many 2-team can beat. Making some dungeons brutally hard is a possibility, yes it's a 5 man group, but not every 5 man group would be able to get through it. But it's not a raid. So now both parties are happy. :)

    Just to put things into perspective, I had a blast playing a Witch Doctor in Diablo III, teaming up with my Demon Hunter buddy, glass cannoning (and dying) our way to Inferno Diablo within a week of game release. We had crappy gear, never farmed so just used the gears we picked up along the way as well as whatever we could buy with our little savings. I built myself such that I only had a big nuke and 5 survival skills on my hot bar, similar with my friend. So literally everything and anything can one shot us, we really had to avoid ALL damage, and that split second decision making and adaptation was very fun. The close team work was also wonderful, and I really missed it. I truly hope that I can experience that kind of fun in W*, it may not be raid, but let there be something like that!
  17. salazar

    salazar Cupcake-About-Town

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    Did you do hammerknell in rift ?
  18. Ego13

    Ego13 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I had a LOT of interest in Rift, loved the premise, loved the idea, loved the implementation. Once I got to play it, I couldn't play it for more than a couple hours. As I've pointed out in numerous posts; the game feels hollow, lifeless, soulless. You don't feel like you're in a world, you feel like you're in some ghost town with cardboard cutouts for people or one of those old west theme parks where everyone's dressed up like they are from the era but it's just not convincing.

    So the answer would be no, but I guarantee it isn't hard. Just watched some videos on it, sorry it's no different than any of the wow raids. Move into x spot, avoid x. Move into y spot, avoid y. Or the boss just has a ridiculous amount of hp, making the fight last a long time, which means you have to have the gear to survive/heal/dps through it. These are examples of gear or idiot checkpoints, not of challenge or skill.
  19. salazar

    salazar Cupcake-About-Town

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    you sound like you have alot of experience in raiding. If you dont consider HK a hard instance then i dont know if you will ever be challenged in a pve mmo.

    and lets just leave it at that,
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  20. Ego13

    Ego13 Cupcake-About-Town

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    This is true, and I'll agree it makes me a hard target, however this is unlike WoW/Rift/EQ(1/2) in the fact that it's active. All of those games are simple dance or gear check mechanics. To me these have always been simple. Guild Wars 2 is fun because you combine ALL of those same mechanics, gear checks, etc, then you add in positional awareness. Sadly it's missing the "group dynamic", you're self-sufficient for healing, no trinity :(, etc..

    I do believe that WS has the potential to be challenging if they decide to make it so, I'm definitely NOT in the minority of having a lot of experience in a lot of games raiding/pvp/etc.. So I'm not the only hard nut for them to crack, but I'm confident that there's a possibility of it and that's what keeps me following the game.

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