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what can Wildstar learn from Guild Wars 2?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by salluks, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. Rumze

    Rumze "That" Cupcake

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    No rng boxes - otherwise I actually really enjoy gw2. But I play it casually and get on for about 30 min to an hour a day usually with more on the weekends.
    Playing gw2 again has made me rethink settler for explorer.
    God I love jumping puzzles.
     
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  2. Mellkor

    Mellkor Well-Known Cupcake

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    Then they have a big problem because apparently they made a game for testers.
     
  3. Crybone

    Crybone Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think the single biggest mistake in GW2 was the lack of mounts, in favor of instant teleportation.

    It's beyond me why you would add a travel system like this when you've spend so much time crafting a beautiful world, and then ruin the sense of exploration by adding waypoints.

    -

    Other than that the aspect i liked with GW2 was that each class could be different from the way you played through speccs. I was a tanky theif with health regen stuff in pvp, and had a lot of fun.

    Personally i don't like the "capture the spot pvp", which was a huge let down in GW2. So i hope that W would present a little choice in pvp play styles.
     
  4. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    I would've gladly chosen mounts over instant transportation. I never was into those waypoints.
     
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  5. ObliviousPrime

    ObliviousPrime "That" Cupcake

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    really? did not know that is how PVEers thought. Then again I mainly stick to my WvW community.

    In our perspective Anet is patching broken things and adding in things that were promised.

    PVE got guild missions and the living story every month at least. The could fix the dragon events so that they are not tremendous lag fests and maybe add some challenge to them..
     
  6. Baamz

    Baamz New Cupcake

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    As a (previously) very dedicated GW2 PvP player, my advice is as follows:

    Release with the features you promise (Anet JUST GOT one of the main features promised for PvP: personal conquest servers like 8 months into release)

    Don't create a game type with high risk and cost for medium reward. Paid Tournaments required 40 people in 5 man premades to pop, and X tourney tickets to queue. Queue times were obscenely long and only popped in a narrow time slot. Then you'd end up with the 4 or so competitive teams with a monopoly on all the rewards, making it even harder for people to refund their investment.

    ^this is my biggest concern for Warplots- queue times and the inability for your HUGE premade to find another HUGE premade of equal standing (hint: if its like the WoW RBG queue is atm, its not going to pop often. trust me.) Also the fact that you have to spend huge amoutns of resources that can be consumed against a team you simply can't beat is another concern that will raise queue times.
     
  7. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I doubt it, their beta was fairly limited, just a weekend in the spring, a weekend in the summer, and then a bunch of days over August to nail down a few things, I doubt that their overall design was too heavily shaped by what people in beta decided.

    There's still plenty of exploration because you have to visit each waypoint on foot before you can teleport to it, on each character. Once you've been to a place, it's no longer exploration. Mounts would be nice though and I'm glad that WS will be having flying mounts instead.

    More options is better, but the spot capturing PvP is a very clever idea too, because it gives multiple roles to play, since you can either attack or defend, rather than just favoring the best DPS builds that can rack up the highest kill counts.
     
  8. Another_Alex

    Another_Alex Cupcake

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    - No plate DPS ( everyone in GW2 rolls a DPS warrior and facerolls everything ). The advantage of plate while pushing the DPS levels higher than most other classes is a big whiskey tango foxtrot.
    - Holy trinity of healing / tanking and DPS is a requirement unless they actually replace it with something
    - Content in GW2 was way too easy, it got boring fast
    - Insanely large Boss HP pools don't make a fight hard, it just makes it tedious
    - No PVE LFG channel or system at launch, big mistake
    - No lore in GW2.

    So about that last one. WoW had a great ability to introduce lore, and players would usually not even notice it. It's in the simple things. (Things WoW lost after vanilla WoW actually when they suddenly introduced robots in a medieval setting) . I remember walking around in vanilla WoW and getting the feeling that things belonged where they were. For instance, you'd run an instance, and suddenly you'd see this jailer with a key you'd need to kill to get past the jail entrance. There was a reason for that jail, and there's a reason you'd find a jailer there, and behold, the jailer holds the key. It's all very logical.

    Now, in GW2, you'd go into an instance, and you'd see some boss in the middle of a big room. Why is that boss there ? What is he doing there, what's his REASON to be in that room ? There's none, hence the lore is lost. This boss could look like a pink tomato, and it would not make a difference. He would throw blobs at you, simply because you happen to come in his way, without reason or logic.

    So I ask myself, what does a big pink tomato do here ? Well, I can't find a good reason, no matter how hard I think. Why does the tomato not like me ? And what are those blobs he's spewing at me ? And why do those blobs hurt me ?

    So back to WoW, you'd go into an instance, say an old castle. The first boss you'd meet would be the horse-master outside in the stables downstairs of the instance. The horse-master heard a raiding party would try and kill his master, and thus defends his master. It's all very logical. Then, when the horse master is losing the battle, about 50% of his health, his horse comes to his defense. That makes sense, the horse doesn't want his master to die, but was afraid of the raiding party. Now that his master is dying, he joins in, in a valiant attempt to save his master, even if he realizes that he might die. It all makes perfect sense.

    Then, after slaying the stable master, the raiding party moves up, and are greeted by the butler of the castle, who also heard that the raiding party would try to kill his master. The butler has gathered some friends and now you have to fight him and four friends. It all makes sense. You keep going up the tower, you pass by a sorcerer who was studying in his library, he's not too happy you killed his minions, so he decides to force the door closed and deal with you personally.

    See, WoW makes sense, GW2 does not. Pink tomatoes that don't make sense versus the enticing lore that WoW has, the raids that make sense, the reasoning behind killing said mobs or bosses makes sense, you get a feeling you did something to better this big bad world and you actually killed a bad guy, not some pink tomato that reminds you how little imagination the GW2 developers had.
     
  9. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    Plate DPS worked fine in WoW.
     
  10. Another_Alex

    Another_Alex Cupcake

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  11. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    As well as every other class as well.

    I rarely if ever saw plate dominated top arena teams. If anything they were leather and cloth dominated.
     
  12. deucengine

    deucengine New Cupcake

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    Were you one of the players who skipped the cut scenes? Those pretty much explained the bosses, why they're there and everything.
     
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  13. Xo1o

    Xo1o Cupcake

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    "What can Wildstar learn from GW2?" - A lot, luckily. Many things WS already does "better", other things aren't relevant, because the games are too different. In detail:

    PvP:
    - Don't balance PvP predominantly around competitive team fights in very small areas (even if the goal is esports compatibility), because every other form of PvP combat (and new players) will suffer from it
    - Don't step into the assassin class trap. Seriously, does every MMO have to start out with a one-shotting, teleporting, stealth class that's insufficiently balanced?
    - Global cooldown and Mana aren't that bad, because they prevent players from spamming all the skills (which they need to do because...
    - ... two damage evading dodges and a personal big heal on low CD for everyone does funny things to PvP and of course...
    - ...Downed State is <redacted>!

    PvE:
    - Even if you think your underwater content is pretty good, players will still mostly hate it
    - Cosmetic rewards are not enough to keep players engaged in PvE, neither are just token rewards
    - The Fractals of the Mist dungeon is a really good idea
    - A non-solid crafting system isn't
    - Dynamic events that scale with player quantity is now a must have feature (as is level scaling)
    - "Globalized" rewards take a lot away from each area's personality (open world and dungeon)
    - Bi-weekly content updates are impressive, but players also like expansions and more permanent, far-reaching content
    - Story is important in an MMO and players don't react well to average cliche storytelling. It's also hard to make them interested in bite-sized stories that last only two weeks and have no further impact on the world.
    - Trying to make a compelling endgame without raiding is hard, as is making guilds relevant in that context
    - A fair cash shop is lucrative, even if the ingame economy has problems
     
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  14. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    The balance definitely isn't quite there, but it certainly could be. You can have plate DPS, and they can DPS as well as other classes, you just need to give the non-plate classes different types of defense that are equally as powerful/affordable as just wearing plate. GW2 didn't quite manage that, the plate classes are definitely more survivable than the cloth ones.

    Definitely true. If a boss has a long health pool he needs to earn it by making numerous strategy changes that keeps you on your toes. If it's just the same patterns throughout then they should just keep it short and simple.

    Everything in GW2 has lore, it's just not immediately obvious, especially if you skip the cinematics and miss the vocal queues. There's tons of little personal dramas going on though.
     
  15. Draahl

    Draahl Cupcake-About-Town

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    That endgame pve isnt suppose to be shared with only 3 other ppl? ;)
     
  16. Zybak

    Zybak Cupcake-About-Town

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    - All gear having the same stats but different skins is stupid. If the skins don't get progresively cooler then there's no reason to play the game. That's a bit too much pressure on the artists.

    - The downed state in PvP is the dumbest thing I've ever seen in MMO PvP ever. The fact that you have MORE health on your back than you do standing up is silly. It makes the gameplay really clunky and makes 2v1's impossible unless you're facing special needs children.

    - There needs to be small scale competitive PvP of some time (Arenas or anything really). They don't have to be the most balanced things ever but at least give players some sort of real competitive bracket WITH A LEADERBOARD.

    - Don't make a game that my entire guild can beat in a week.

    - Nobody really cares about leveling or dynamic events for the long-haul. I appreciate fun leveling and quest while I'm doing them but I'll never go back to a low level zone to do an event for no reason.

    - The whole open world sandbox thing for MMO's is pretty boring if there's no progression/drama. Eve is really the only game to pull it off.

    - No World PvP or factions was pretty lame
     
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  17. Exzear

    Exzear New Cupcake

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    Dont do anything GW2 did, the game was boring and the "dodge" move felt laggy and out of place. the combat choices you had where boring i think i tried every damn class in pvp and switched weapons but didnt find a single class that i really liked. questing was MEH like most MMOs but i have to say questing was the best thing about that game because zerg vs zerg was boring as hell and you had load problems when it comes to loading players in ZvZ and the so called arena pvp was really boring aswell. arena should be more about killing the other team not holding points thats what rated BGs are.. over all i didnt like GW2 at all and i really hope/think that wildstar will do so many things better then they did. first of the combat and the dodge in this game looks alot faster and smother and overall im really excited about WS!

    Forgot PvE in GW2 ;) well the PvE was just like ZvZ run around and DPS.. not really that many tactics.. and i remember when they said they removed tanks and healers and i was like okey.. but you will have PvE? soooooo? you just run around and zerg things/hopes for the best and avoid standing in the fire? those where my first thought when they removed the holy trinity roles.. just a dumb idea to sound smart and special if u ask me.
     
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  18. Lesh

    Lesh Cupcake

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    I really hope the words " financial success " will never be used to describe Wildstar. I really hope that carbine is actually trying to make a good game rather than doing just enough to make a profit.
     
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  19. Drarorm

    Drarorm Cupcake-About-Town

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    I think we have seen enough evidence to say that they really care for this game and really want to make it in the next big great MMO. Though why not be described "financial success"? The more money they get, the better the game will become.
     
  20. Lesh

    Lesh Cupcake

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    Well of course, it's just that financial success is used to describe games that had a good enough marketing campaign to make a profit. Nobody describes WoW as simply as a financial success, even though its probably the greatest financial success in all of entertainment industry.
     
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