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what can Wildstar learn from Guild Wars 2?

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by salluks, Jul 13, 2013.

  1. Valarcx

    Valarcx New Cupcake

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    A Guild organizer. The roster guild panel should have for e.g. a last logged in time, and role/class overview (not only crafting profs) Event participation counter to see who actually attend events. A ingame calendar with a attendance checkbox.

    Copy from gw2.
    Everyone his own gathering is such a great thing.
     
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  2. Pushkina

    Pushkina New Cupcake

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    What we need from gw2 is a sell all junk button.
     
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  3. Catrike

    Catrike Cupcake-About-Town

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    (1) Instant travel From Zones ( Bad ) Just kills it for me, Mounts are better!
    (2) Talking NPC ( Good ) Gw2 does this very good.
    (3) Weather Effects Got to have this in game. Love to see Season change in zones- like Ryzon has :)
     
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  4. MaximTheRaven

    MaximTheRaven Cupcake

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    Talking NPC's, perhaps with cutscenes. I wasn't a fan of the whole standing in front of a backdrop that looks like someone painted with a paintbrush, without any semblance to the actual world around them. If they do something like that I say it ought to be improved upon with actual cutscenes. But then again, that does take a LOT more effort. I understand why they wouldn't do it, but it'd be awesome if they did.
     
  5. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    I don't know, I tend to agree with them that the orbs just made a lopsided battle even more lopsided. My server was actually really strong at WvW around launch (a lot of people jumped ship when the servers became locked for whatever reasons), so every time I'd hop over to the WvW maps we'd have every orb, which increased our WvW power considerably. I can't imagine what the other teams could do about that once it happened.

    Adding new maps is a big deal, and PvE players need those map teams more than WvW players do. I imagine there will be new WvW maps eventually, but I would hope that they are not a priority.

    This could be nifty. I remember back during my brief WvW phase, the one UI enhancement I really wanted was the addition of "squad leaders," players that a commander could "deputize" to be given a different colored map icon, with a task listed next to it on the map (like "repair the walls" or "hold this fort"), so that they could send these players on those tasks and attract other players to that area, rather than having to be there personally.

    I think it was a nice idea, but it did end up a bit static. The new content all uses direct cutscenes instead, which people seem to like better.
     
  6. Ryth

    Ryth Cupcake

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    This is superficially a wonderful idea, and I really like in general the GW2 philosophy that you should be excited to see other people in the world, because they will help you, not steal your kills and nodes.

    That said, I've also read (and observed) an important point about this process: If you allow everyone to loot a resource node (and let all players mine all resources), suddenly you (the developer) have much less control over the amount of tradeskill reagents entering the economy. We saw tradeskill reagents, and by extension the items made with them, become incredibly cheap, such that you could completely re-gear your character at any level short of the cap from the AH for next to nothing. And that ends up feeling weird, and derails the Pursuit of Loot mentality that ultimately is so important in fueling many people's interest in MMOs.

    I'm sure there's a way to balance these two forces - to have players not have to compete directly for resources, but also retain some control over their introduction to the economy. Perhaps a given resource node could be mined by X number of people before it disappears, or could persist and be mineable by others for X minutes after the first mining. Or perhaps the crafting system can be tweaked so that even if components are plentiful, products are still valuable.

    In any case, I'm sure it's a potential problem that the W* devs are well aware of, and I look forward to seeing how they toe the line.
     
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  7. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    I think that the two of us are meant to play different games! Nothing wrong with that, but I found the fluid "cooperating" in GW2 to ultimately be very lonely and sterile. There was no reason to talk, no reason to formally group, and no reason to remember anyone's name until the middle of the leveling process, by which time lots of people had gotten out of the habit and didn't seem interested in trying the dungeons. I think games should be friendly to solo players, but for me, GW2 took it a few steps too far and actively discouraged people from formally grouping or getting to know each other.

    As for sharing nodes, I thought it was an amazing idea when it was announced and will admit I enjoyed not having to compete for them. But as the game went on, I realized that those shared nodes were also the reason that nothing I crafted had any value, which in turn was why crafting was so terribly expensive to level. I liked not having to race to nodes, but I like being able to make things that other people might buy and use even more. Without that, crafting just becomes a character's personal hobby.
     
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  8. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Try gw2flg.com, you can find plenty of groups on there.

    Shared nodes have NOTHING to do with the value of crafting in GW2. Really the value of harvest materials has nothing to do with costs, the real cost factors are the dropped rare items. The cost of an iron breastplate has almost nothing to do with the cost of iron, it has much more to do with the cost of claws and scales and the such. But really, the lack of profitability from crafting also has nothing to do with resources, ie "supply," but to do with demand. There is no particular need for most crafted goods, and so people aren't willing to pay much for them. Purchasable items in GW2 fall into several categories:

    1. Precursors. Needed for Legendaries, super expensive.
    2. Exotics with cool skins. Only way to get this look, fairly expensive.
    3. Exotics with good stats. Everyone needs at least one of these, but few stat combos involve a premium.
    4. Exotics with bad stats. Meh, cheaper than #3.
    5. L80 Rare weapons that you can Forge to maybe get a good Precursor.
    6. L80 Rare weapons/armor that nobody really cares about the Forge results.
    7. The lowest level versions of rare and masterwork armors/weapons that provide unique looks.

    Pretty much every other type of armor and weapons are practically worthless, salvage them, vendor them, or sell them for barely vendor prices. You'll find decent enough stuff via drops to get by, and while you certainly could keep yourself fully stocked in rares from level 50-80, there's no real reason why you'd want to when you could just save the money. There's no reason to buy a level 75 rare armor when you could get a cheaper level 50 version instead and transmute the look onto your level 75 Masterwork armor, which is plenty to get you to 80 where you'll be getting exotics anyways.

    If they want to make crafted goods worth more, the only way to do it is to ensure that there is a practical demand for items across all levels. Harvesting nodes play no role in that.
     
  9. SpicedWolf

    SpicedWolf New Cupcake

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    The combat in GW2 was what really sold the game for me.

    For the most part Wildstar seems to be getting that right, so what they should really be focusing on are new features, expanding on what GW2 did, and end-game content. Giving the player a goal or an aspiration really improves how long the community lasts... keeping the player coming back, and trying to improve their character and their skill.
     
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  10. Prophyrian

    Prophyrian Cupcake

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    This isn't an issue, since W* has alreay addressed it. So instead I'll thank Carbine.

    Thank you for not locking our abilities based on our weapon! GW2 got old after a couple days simply because the spells never changed. The slotted skills were underwhelming as well, so you never really felt that awesome compared to the next guy. I'm looking forward to seeing the plethora of builds the LAS will allow us.
     
  11. BlueDragon18

    BlueDragon18 Cupcake-About-Town

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    PvE was generally fun, and the story lines were great, especially the great voice acting for the main Asura.
    I absolutely HATED fighting dragons and the "world mobs" that spawned occasionally in the starter zones. It was "everyone stand right HERE and it won't hit you". Then mash keys until it was dead. Also the loot was awful unless you were max level already. Ie. fighting a level 45 dragon in the level 45 zone you got <REDACTED> loot while the level 80s that were downleveled got level 80 loot that was sometimes pretty awesome. BAH!
     
  12. BlueDragon18

    BlueDragon18 Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have seen games where 2 or 3 people could mine a node/harvest a tree before it disappeared. I think that is better than unlimited.
    In GW2, when I got high enough level harvest platinum (around level 50 I believe) it was worthless at the AH because of the "everyone can harvest" setup. Not fun.
     
  13. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    To be fair, skills rarely change in most MMOs. You might unlock a new abilities every now and then, but after the first ten levels or so, later powers are often just iterative improvements over what you've already got, akin to unlocking GW2 traits that juice up existing powers. If you really run the numbers and eliminate the iterative improvements, the way GW2 hands out abilities is on roughly the same pacing as in any other game.

    True enough, but it's great once you hit level 80. Most of my characters spend a lot of time running these downleveled events, and I've gotten a lot of great stuff that way (I've found three Final Rests over the last month).

    But again, you're seeing the symptoms and blaming the wrong disease. Basic martials are not cheap because they're too easy to harvest, they are cheap because they are too pointless to USE. The only thing people need Platinum for is to level their crafting up to the Mithril range. That's it. An armor crafter, for example, will need exactly 76 Platinum ores over the entire life of his character, for example. That's it. That's only 17 platinum nodes worth, less if you have harvesting buffs or find a Rich node. It also doesn't account for salvaging, which will return plenty of platinum ores off of level ~60 gear.

    Harvesting competition is not and never was the problem.

    All harvesting competition does is create unnecessary strife within the community as people "steal" "your" harvesting nodes out from under you.
     
  14. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    Seems that if Carbine were following the GW2 philosophy on gathering, harvesting would indeed be devalued as you say but, raw materials like metals or plants are very lucrative commodities within the economy of other games.

    In the Devspeak - Movement video where they make references about sprinting to nodes like "rushing to get dibs" "getting there first" and nodes that fight back. If this is any indication I would guess that farming will likely be much more challenging in WildStar which seems to fit the theme Carbine has be preaching.

    Ultimately we don't have enough information to say how gathering will affect the economy.
     
  15. Valarcx

    Valarcx New Cupcake

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    It's true that GW2 does not have absurd pricings for mats. The market makes sense and the pricing of mats shown that. Every day you can look up a map on the internet and do your daily route of harvesting mats whatever mat brings in the most money. The nodes wich has the most value to them are also not farmable because you can only gather them once a day and there are just a handfull of those nodes. So the highest tier of mats automaticlly gain more rarity and that is reflecting the market prize. Controlling how much mats each day can possible flux the market is a way for Anet to control the market and for me a relief i don't have to worry about speed racing to that mining node before anyone else does.
     
  16. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yes, but only in relation to their function. Let's say we have a resource. That resource we'll call "mundanium." Mundanium can be used for nothing. All you can ever do with mundanium is cash it in at a vendor for 50 credits. Now you sir, you in the front row there, how much would you pay for a lump of mundanium? 500 credits? 100? Of course not, you'd never pay more than 50 credits because that's all you'd ever get back from it, and only an idiot would sell it for less than 50 because he could always get 50 if he wanted.

    That's the problem with GW2's resource market, most "base" resources, metals, woods, leathers, cloths, are "mundanium," they can't actually be used for much. Really, the proof that your position on here is bunk is the price of cloth and leather. If harvesting were the problem, then cloth and leather pieces in a given tier would be selling for several times the cost of metal and wood, since you cannot harvest those, the supply is significantly lower. And yet for the most part the value of cloth and leather is even lower than the value of wood and metal on a given tier.

    Further factor in that GW2 has market controls. When the value of commodities drops lower than they like, they can always increase the amount required to produce things. It used to take two logs to produce a finished board, now it takes 3-4, because they wanted to juice the value of harvesting logs.

    Again, Havesting is not the problem with raw material prices and making resource nodes exclusive would not solve anything whatsoever.

    Whatever problems exist in the GW2 crafting system are entirely on the demand side, not in the materials side.

    I do like the idea of nodes fighting back, and I wouldn't mind if there is some perk to harvesting nodes first (so long as it's fairly minor), but I do not want to have to rush for every node. In their most recent patch, GW2 has these "kite" things, which when activated drop two piles of loot. They show up on the map before being activated, then once activated the loot stays on the ground for a given amount of time, minutes perhaps, I haven't counted it out. This is better than the hologram nodes, since it gives later players a grace period where they can still collect loot, but it's still annoying since they don't show on the map after being activated, and don't last indefinitely.

    If Carbine wanted to give a "firsties" bonus, I would make it like animals exploration XP. Make it so that nodes generate 1 extra loot per ten minutes of inactivity (up to a point), so that out of the way nodes reward higher amounts than constantly farmed ones. Each person that mines a node gets 1 less loot to the base. So like a node might generate 10 ore as a base rate, +1 per ten minutes, so an hour in it generates 16 ore. The first person to find it gets 16 ore, the next would get 15, the next one, if ten minutes after that, would get 15 (-1, then +1), and so on.

    Alternately just have it so that the monster respawns every minute or five minutes or whatever, and if you cap a node with a monster, you have to fight the monster, but get cool xp/loot off the monster in addition to the node materials.
     
  17. Arsenic36

    Arsenic36 New Cupcake

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    To add better content. Not some content that's going to go away in a month. Permanent content. Of course I don't mind some content that lasts for like 2 weeks to a month, but not just that type of content.
     
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  18. Afrotech

    Afrotech Cupcake-About-Town

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    I never said harvesting was a problem but, it obviously is in GW2 if its pointless.
    You throw around words and phrases like "proof" and "your position is bunk" while at the same time offering made up scenarios and arguments that come from within the context of GW2 despite it's flaws as if no other games exist.

    You can harvest leather, cloth, metal and wood in other games.
    Again way too much emphasis on the GW2 philosophy there is no indication that Carbine intends to follow this philosophy. Simple supply and demand in a progression system where these raw materials have a value even at lowbie levels changes the dynamic.



    Not my intent to debate about how harvesting, crafting and the economy will be handled in WildStar or what philosophy would be better since I know we won't agree. I'm just offering my opinion on where it appears to be headed based on what has been said and shown by Carbine so far.
     
  19. Ohoni

    Ohoni Cupcake-About-Town

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    The point is, in any economic argument there is a supply side and a demand side. Base materials in GW2 have low value, but it's because of the demand side, not the supply side. You can say you don't want shared/instanced resource nodes, that'd be your opinion and you're entitled to it, but you can't blame the lack of them for the GW2 resource economy, because that has nothing to do with it.

    I think you may have lost track of the thread.
     
  20. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    It has everything to do with it. The problem is on the supply side, not the demand side as you claim. Reason being that everyone is a supplier. Too much supply, too little demand, and this is directly because of the shared node system they use.
     

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