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Why are races always tied to factions ?

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by Irontooth, Sep 25, 2013.

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  1. Irontooth

    Irontooth New Cupcake

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    I was hoping that Wildstar was not going to be like most other games in that races are directly tied to a certain faction.
    As an old RPGer I would much rather see a system of choosing first your race then path and last faction.
    I feel it is rather crappy that if I want to play a specific race it is automatically tied to anything in game terms.
    What if after a few months play I descover that the other side is more to my liking ? Can I change sides ? Or if I don't like the two sides, why can't I just play without a faction !
    I have learned in all my years of roll play that pushing a player into a situation where they have no say most often leads to rebellion and a feeling of not being in controll of ones own character.
    I would like to hear how others see this race/faction situation.
    Think about it !
  2. aiuradun

    aiuradun Cupcake-About-Town

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    easily distingishing friends from foes, the "red" vs "blue" concept, it would be highly confusing having any and all races belong to both factions
  3. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    It comes down to faction loyalty / pride, and part of what creates this is a strong story. The story in Wildstar shows a lot of conflict for or against specific races rather than a more neutral setting, the Aurin were treated like <REDACTED> by the Dominion, so you are hardly going to see an Aurin being part of the Dominion.

    An Aurin joining the Dominion would start to put holes in their lore, and the lore is a strong point in the racial pride they are trying to create. Just my opinion though.
  4. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    I believe it gives the world and the factions a distinct "personality." I'd be doubting the Exiles stand as pragmatic "space cowboys" if they had the Draken instead of the Granok, and the Chua instead of the Aurin, and I wouldn't be as intimidated and impressed by the Dominion in the inverse situation. (Granted, then I'd be Dominion, not Exile.)

    Also, restrictions are okay to me. It really enhances the creativity and pushes the boundaries of your imagination and the depths of your character when you have to figure out some way to make them fit, not construct them however you damn well please.
  5. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    This topic has been raised before on WSC. Here and here. Being able to play as a neutral race was discussed here. Before creating a thread on a specific topic it's a good idea to search WSC, the search fields are in the upper right-hand corner of the screen, checking the box for "by title only". In this case the keywords "faction locked", "faction locking", and "race" would reveal the threads that I linked to.

    I am not sure if any AAA title has permitted races to play as all factions. Does GW2 have factions? WoW allows one race to choose either faction after playing to a certain level. WildStar has 2 human varieties, one for either faction, but culturally different. The idea of races being tied to factions bothers me little, other things wind me up more.

    Being limited to only two factions was a mistake by Carbine. A few months ago* Carbine stated as much. Three faction PvP is much easier to balance, less server faction imbalance, etc.

    Races being locked to faction is less of an issue for me than race/class limited choices. At launch the Mechari and the Granok will only have three class choices each. It is unlikely that Aurin will be able to play as a heavy armor wearing classs, or Mechari as a ranged DPS class. At launch only the (boring) human races will be able to play as all classes. Carbine has stated that because each race/class combo has unique animations it is a time intensive process for each additional race/class combo. This is the same reason for each class being limited to one type of weapon.* In game there will be lore supporting the race/class restrictions.*

    No word yet if Carbine will have the option for players to change the faction/race of their characters. There is NOT an option for players to be factionless or to play as a neutral character.

    *I will update with a source if I am able to locate it.

    True, but it would also be easy to visually flag characters of opposing factions even if every class could chose to play as every faction, even if there were more than two factions. Blue name plates/auras/whatever for Exiles, red for Dominion, yellow for third faction, etc. etc. Or Carbine could simply flag every friendly as one color, every hostile as another.

    I disagree. Not even one greedy or self-serving Aurin that helped sell out their homeworld to the Dominion? Not a single Aurin that would work as a mercenary to the highest bidder?
  6. THIS AURINS ON FIRE!!!!!!

    THIS AURINS ON FIRE!!!!!! Cupcake-About-Town

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    the aurin arent greedy:confused:.............after skimming through this whole thing this is what poped out:eek:
  7. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    Can you guarantee only one would be there? no, if they were playable there would likely be thousands... but then it blows the lore out of the water... your point is completely invalid.
  8. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    One, was not the point. The point, is that each race is full of a variety of individuals (you could argue that Mechari are not, but that aside) with different thoughts, desires, motivations, etc. as diverse as the players who choose to play them.
  9. Draogon

    Draogon Cupcake-About-Town

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    Everquest. Pretty sure that was a AAA title.
  10. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    One was the point, more than that and you are literally throwing the lore out the window, the lore is there as a guideline... now where would that go if half the Aurin were with the Dominion? out the window, and you would have less of a compelling story.
    ruff_ethereal and Kataryna like this.
  11. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    All i gotta say is #ChuaPride! and #DominionDomination!

    That's what the whole reason for factions is - getting people to identify with THEIR faction and THEIR race. You think that the Alliance would allow an Orc into the Alliance? or that the Horde would let a Gnome join them? don't think so...
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  12. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    Even though some aurins may want to help the dominion, noway they would ever elt them join anyway :p

    Putting galactic scum in your ranks doesn't do you any good!
    For you....GO HUMAN!

    They are the race that has this! They aren't tied to a faction for they are in both factions :up:

    The problem is, that people like this settup! And people like the settup you want to see.

    WildStar does it's best to cater to both parties. The humans are not bound by a faction (while in other games they are), so that's for peeps like you. While other races are still bound, that's for the other peeps.

    They just use BOTH ways! Which would only be a great things, or do you really think they should've do a btter job in this? For having your way won't be pelasing for other people.
    Kataryna, even though I love you...please don't use WoW with this....for even in the history of WoW there are examples that show us that what you just said = dead wrong :D

    Although, yes, they were ''special'' cases/examples. But nonetheless in the lore/history it's done before (although not really in-game).
  13. Irontooth

    Irontooth New Cupcake

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    So Ive read all the comments that have come in and I see very clearly that people are of differant opinions on this topic, some quite valid and some a little over the top, but I still don't really understand why races have to be stuck with any one faction.
    Try thinking of it like this ..... Characters in a game are not the common person, they are the one in a million, the exceptions to the rule, they don't have normal jobs, a normal family or anything that others would call normal, so why should a character be limited to only being in one faction, having one class or occupation or for that matter any limitations.
    Free will is what makes a good game, doing those things we can't do in real life. Wether its exploring a new planet, going to war against an alien race, building a fortress, or what ever your heart desires. Its all in good fun.
    Im not trying to say your personal opinions don't matter, Im just pointing out that in life we are all limited to our worlds out side our house doors so why should we settle on those same limitations in our games.
    Please feel free to continue this debate and I will also continue to read them all with interest.
    Thank You All
  14. Skippy

    Skippy Well-Known Cupcake

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    Free will is a great thing in games, take minecraft for example, they give you a world and you just go for it.. do whatever you like.. but this also only appeals to a select audience too. Minecraft also doesn't have a story behind it.

    Freedom can work exceptionally well in a game, except where they are trying to make a compelling story, there has to be guidelines in this case. As extatica said there are few instances in wow where there is cross faction interaction (take jaina as an example) but this doesn't stretch in to gameplay without needing a reason behind it in the lore.

    A game like Wildstar wants you to be proud of who you fight for, and give you a reason to fight for them, so it needs a solid foundation for this, if they stretch the rules with something like this it starts to make the lore (the story that makes the game immersive) much more "flimsy".
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  15. Mykor

    Mykor Cupcake-About-Town

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    I am sure the Exiles could recruit a Chua by offering them the perfect military facility where he gets to experiment new weaponry.
    I am also sure that the Dominion could recruit a Mordesh by offering him keys to an Eldan lab that hold vials/serums that may cure his race.

    But those are exceptions. Those individuals are the lore characters you will read about. Those who, for personal gain or misplaced trust, will affect the game's "history".

    Those folks are not your character. Instead you play the role of the 'hero'. One of many (hopefully) who is sent to destroy that lore character who turned his back on his faction.

    That is the story that Carbine chose. Hence why classes are bound to each faction.
  16. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    Assuming that the Exile leadership would trust a Chua with a perfect military facility, I suppose. And I don't think there's any way the Dominion is going to share any Eldan relics with any outsider, to say nothing of the people that they unhesitatingly left to die.

    Continuing along this road, the Dominion bulldozed the entire Aurin homeworld. They waged a war on the Granok that got them exiled from their own planet.

    Meanwhile, the Mechari were built by the Eldan and have the duty of preserving the Dominion as the primary legacy left by their creators. They take pride in being superior beings crafted by even greater beings, so it's not something they take lightly. The Draken really don't give a rat's ass about galactic politics or refugee sob stories, they're savage and bloodthirsty and bound to the Dominion as a matter of honor (one of the few things they do seriously care about). The Chua are just <REDACTED>ing insane and dangerous, and were actually elevated from barbarism by the intervention of the Dominion.

    The Exiles races are all bound by their hatred of the Dominion. Each of them suffered some kind of horrible cruelty at the hands of the Dominion. Meanwhile, the Dominion races are linked by centuries of shared history and mutually beneficial accords. I'd rather not have that all thrown out the window just so someone can RP a cuddly Draken with a conscience or something. Or, you know, AN EVIL AND SINISTER AURIN!!!!!

    You'd lose a lot more than you gain, imo.
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  17. Satarn

    Satarn Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really find it kinda amusing how almost every time there is a race/faction discussion, Aurin are the example of the race that couldn't be in Dominion while they have the most solid lore-wise reason for it. We know that some of the Aurins couldn't escape and stayed on their homeworld which is currently occupied. If Dominion saw potential in the race(natural talent for magic, affinity with the nature that could help in certain studies etc) they could just snatch some children from their parents on Arboria and indoctrinate them into the Dominion culture. Such propaganda is pretty common in our world's history, isn't it?

    Anyhow, I personally like the idea of the factions and races being tied to them, especially that it's well put in this setting. This kind of setup works very nicely for building the faction image and immersion.

    Faction tied race options may sadly cause a lot of complications with playing with your irl friends, guildies from other games etc. It's not very nice when you can't play your perfect character as a main, because everyone you wanted to play with rolled the other faction. It wouldn't be that bad if they didn't also make classes race-locked(and as much as I totally understand the animation cost issue, it doesn't make it feel better).

    I'd love to see the possibility to become a traitor, but the system would have to be well thought, so we wouldn't suddenly have people faction jumping all over the place. Something like a paid service maybe, available only once per account and resulting in heavy reputation penalty, that would be lifted only when you play with certain friends from the faction's actual races.

    Imagine situation of getting an opposite faction's healer in a random dungeon matching, especially on a roleplay server... Fun times.
  18. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    To the OP:

    So... it's really hard to argue logically with real world analogs for either race/faction divisions or not. On the one hand, it creates flavor for the races, on the other it's limiting to player's personal preferences. They have backed up their faction limitations with excellent lore though, and if you allow any race to be any faction, the races lose some of their depth.

    I will say this though, I think Carbine has done an excellent job of balancing the "personal options" of both factions, and not making either faction straight "good or evil." For instance, both factions have something for everyone's playstyle really. Both have human which is super important. Both have the "lifeless" race. Both have a big model. Both have a "cute" race. Both have a animalistic race.

    So, while they didn't offer unlimited choices for the races, I don't know if they really needed to. I really hate it when games simply make the race a skin for your avatar, and claim some backstory for them, but then they're just generalized, and the faction doesn't really mean anything, neither does your race.
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  19. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    In WildStar's case, the races are heavily tied into their respective factions and their overall philosophies. If Carbine decided to shift that design, they'd essentially have to redo their entire game.

    There are two sides to this issue. Race locked factions give the factions more personality and flair while free-choice factions offer players more choice in choosing the faction that fits their preferences. Carbine just happened to go with the former.
  20. Jabberwocky

    Jabberwocky Well-Known Cupcake

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    EverQuest didn't have factions but there were certain consequences for picking a "good" or "evil" race.
  21. AusterlitZ

    AusterlitZ Well-Known Cupcake

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    Why would i want to be in the same faction,with a filthy,germ infested rodent?
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