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Why can't Mechari be Spellslingers?

Discussion in 'WildStar Races' started by Miatog, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. Apostate

    Apostate Well-Known Cupcake

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    Sorry, but where has it been said that the developers are striving to emulate D&D?

    In any case, no... it's not like trying to be a Klingon scientist, because anyone -can- be scientists already. If you want a granok scientist, there's nothing to stop you from making one. The only racial restrictions are the fighting methodologies available. I have to say that the example of a granok spellslinger isn't a particularly compelling one to me because I just don't see them as acrobatic spellcasters/trick marksmen. Same for espers, I don't really see them being big on that kind of magic.

    Of the four classes released so far, warrior is the only one that really fits with the granok's physiology. As has been said in this thread and elsewhere, they'll more than likely have access to the final two classes. Ergo, their healing option will be provided for and likely the ranged DPS one as well. Meaning there's a very high probability that all of the basic roles (melee DPS, ranged DPS, tank, healer)will be available to them.

    So the problem here is... what, exactly? That the granok can't go into Wolverine mode when they're already The Thing? That they can't do John Woo gun fu or use fluffy bunny nature magic? Perhaps you can simply enjoy the races that the developers created as they imagined them, instead of jamming square pegs into round holes in an effort to redefine everything in a way that suits you.
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  2. Miatog

    Miatog Cupcake-About-Town

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    I must disagree with you here on this. What you're talking about with the Vulcan solider and Klingon scientist is closer to the path system than the class system. I agree that Class isn't synonymous with personality, but it is with lifestyle. Would a Klingon wield magic bolts of lightning? Not likely, they'd say it's cowardly and not your own strength. But they would strap a big two handed weapon to their backs while repairing the ship that's under attack. Would a Vulcan charge in and punch you in the face? No, they prefer more subtle means of physical combat. The Vulcan death grip was even created because Leonard Nimoy argued that very thing.

    In many games the class doesn't speak to your personality no, it speaks to your devotion, to what you focus your life on. We haven't been told a lot on the lore of classes, but enough to say that the same -may- be true here.

    What I was seeking with this topic was either getting dev attention and get the class added to Mechari, or the lore reason why they can't. Popober has offered what I will admit is a likely explanation. One that I find more likely after hearing that some people in the know say there is a reason for magic. Fine, if I can't have my (current) favorite class with my (current) favorite race so be it.

    I am in favor of race/class restrictions, it gives the game more depth and the races more identity. GW2 has every class and every race possible, and they all feel bland for it. Not only that, they make characters who are different and choose a class players can't be actually unique. It can help to make them stand out. Such as a Forsaken who is still a Paladin. Or a Tauren who has found a way to be stealthy.

    Tauren Paladins work because they're not really Paladins, they're Druids with a focus on the sun over the moon. The Wildhammer clan has had for a long time a form of Shamanism. It's not quite what the Orcs or Taurens do, but it's close enough. To introduce them in WoW is just bringing that back. These all work. I am fully ready and willing to accept that Mechari Spellslinger don't work, I just want to know why.
  3. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    One of the two new classes as a Granok and a 4th Exile race Esper.

    Kind of figured, but not as familiar with your posting style yet.
  4. Malachi Draven

    Malachi Draven New Cupcake

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    No it wasn't iTunes, it was the dreaded Bing Toolbar!
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  5. Alistair Cain

    Alistair Cain Cupcake

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    There have been a few other threads talking about how classes are locked to certain races - generally replies have been along the lines of "lore says you can't be a Granok Esper (for example) so you can't". But when discussing path restrictions due to race, the replies are almost completely against it.

    In the interest of playing devil's advocate: Why are class restrictions for races more acceptable than path restrictions? Why can people rationalize a reason for Granok scientists but not espers?

    I have played games with race locked, faction locked and even gender locked classes - I have come to accept that I simply have to pick from what options are available.
    But some people may want to play a spellcasting Mechari. Is there a good reason why they cannot be allowed to?

    Lore is not a great reason as it can be changed, modified or exceptions made to allow for basically anything. As has been stated, lore could justify Mechari casters as easily as it could disallow them. It may be that the Eldan (masters of technology and magic hocus pocus) also created a secret group of Esper - capable Mechari using space-magic powercells.

    The lore has Draken as very much warrior-based/let's go kill stuff , so why don't they restrict Draken from being settlers? Draken would rather be out taking names (or heads) than building houses - leave that to their slaves/allies.

    I would say largely because that limits player choice and the general rule of thumb in games is: More player choices/options = better.
    Restricting classes to certain races limits your choices. I understand the distinction between classes and paths, but why give everyone free choice of path (how you like to play) but restrict your class/race (which is essentially aesthetic - you want to play an esper, you can - just not one that looks like a Granok).
  6. Inv1cted

    Inv1cted Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm slightly pressed for time so I'll be brief

    ~Paths are different from classes, they're explicitly stated to be a 'fun' thing that's supposed to have minimal impact on endgame (and liekly has little impact on the ongoing story) for classes this is not the case.

    ~Lore is the oft quoth-ed reason for a class race restriction because it is literally the only reason, also because it's intimately related I'm going to be that person and quote myself
    Similarly for ever hand wave you can make up for something you can handwave it back which is what makes threads like these almost exclusively circular (And also seems to be a shadow dance on both sides refusing to admit because they devs said so/don't have the resources to animate it is the actual reason).

    ~More choice isn't always a good thing in fact more often then not it leads to needless complexity or just straight up bloat (I'm not speaking pertaining to race/class here just in general).
  7. Alistair Cain

    Alistair Cain Cupcake

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    This is the only statement that I cannot agree with. I can only think of positives for having more player choices, rather than negatives.
    A game with only one character to pick, where you can only walk down one road, using one weapon is less appealing than a game where you can select what character you would like, travel down multiple paths and use a variety of weapons. I cannot think of any examples of having more choices resulting in a poorer game (doesn't mean they don't exist of course, but I honestly struggle to come up with any).

    If we go with the lore/handwavium as being able to exclude or justify anything then the reason to restrict classes comes down to - "because that's how they made the game". (Animation difficulties doesn't ring true at all - they can animate every class for humans but not for aurin? Seems a thin reason at best).

    Having restrictions does make the races more distinct - If every race could be every class then, as has been said, race becomes just an aesthetic choice. If that's the way the devs intend it - good enough for me, I've played games with much bigger restrictions.
    However, I can understand the point of view of those that would like to have their Mechari/Granok esper.
  8. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well, now that I see who started this, my thoughts originated on another thread that you're following, but it also contributes here!

    Perspectives welcome on this by everyone. I thought more on the magic being regarded as something science/technology has not reached yet or been able to explain. Now, lots of games and other fiction have the two, Science and Magic, opposing each other.

    Expanding on my thoughts, the scientific civilizations are often depicted with their cities and industrial revolutions set into motion. On the other side, the opposing magic culture is often shown as tribal or set in a medieval, sometimes feudal system.

    The scientific civilization will often show a disregard to nature, while the magic folks embrace nature. Oftentimes nature is depicted as a source of the magical powers, especially when magic is divided up amongst elements. When displayed with a tribal setting, this perspective on magic is often reinforced with more examples.

    The scientific folks are regularly depicted as snotty and arrogant towards the witches, mystics, conjurers, occultists, and necromancers, amongst other terms. I chose more negative terms for magic users, as such words more likely to bring up unfavorable connotations when used by the scientific minds. Unlike the term wizard or mage, which are very generic. Those deluding conjurers! Those devil worshiping occultists! - Get the point :)

    Now, going back to magic just being out of scientific definition. In these worlds that are often set up, with opposing sides, the scientists will most likely never advance their science to explain the opposing magic, which seems to be viewed as heresy. The magic users will never really explain how they're able to bring people back from life, cast fireballs, and do every spiffy thing that they do. Some way of focusing on harnessed power or concentrating on recited words seems to the the limits of explanation.

    Science <-- --> Magic, both sides seem to be going like that, with the Science being the newest understanding of the day, and the magic being something like an archeological dig to power. To expand on the later, a mage goes on a quest to find scrolls and then another one to an ancient relic that will enhance his abilities. The scientist may gather some old items, but they'll be used in creating new advancements of technology.

    I think playing all of these worlds, reinforcing such a view, has lead me to think of the two as very opposed, instead of one being out of the others grasp. I could even come up with more comparisons between the two, but wow that looks like a lot of text.

    And relating back to WildStar with Races and distinct classes assigned to each. I really think such perspective as my own and the opposing view are reasonings for that. Especially why those Mechari can't use magic ;) I think there is an entire thread on that subject alone, I should go contribute! On the other hand, if the Eldan hadn't reached said magic via scientific process, the Mechari would not be able to either!
  9. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    I don't know if someone already posted this, but i just thought:

    Because the Eldan didn't made them to be able to do that. (kinda solves all problems doesn't it?)
  10. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well yes :) but the reasoning / explanation behind that is what I believe the OP to be after, and the OP wants it to be plausible.
  11. Extatica

    Extatica Super Cupcake

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    The reasoning would be, because the Eldan didn't made them that way.

    Why didn't they do that? Because they didn't (i know i'm sounding like a little child now, but common, who are we to argue the decissions made by the most advanced race in the Galaxy? :p)

    Is it plausible? Yes, because the Eldan could decide not to make the Mechari be able to use ''Mag-Pistols'' (i believe the Mag stands for Magic).

    If the OP wants to know more...go ask the Eldan :D
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  12. Eluldor

    Eluldor Cupcake-About-Town

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    Going with "go ask the Eldan", I hope such scientific studies and the creation of the Merchari can be read by the Scientist path, to help illuminate such matters. My huge post is my speculation on why the Eldan may have not been able to do so!
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  13. Riuuki

    Riuuki Cupcake

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    Logical reason: They needed to even out the race/class ratio between dominion and exiles.

    Lore reason: They are machines, droids in Star Wars can't use the Force.. I guess it's kinda the same thing?

    In most cases for magic you need "attuned" to a certain thing. be it a life form or what not.. Ask Carbine for their reasoning!
  14. Miatog

    Miatog Cupcake-About-Town

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    Very true, and since as I said in the other thread we're both following (nice job tying this post to both threads btw) it's been said that magic has a reason. As I said earlier in this thread, since learning that I expect that reason will be what tells me why Mechari can't be Spellslings. I do want the reason, it bothers me that they can't because of the vid of them shooting a pistol, which is what made me start this topic in the first place. I will totally shut up once the reason is stated.


    I had to laugh at this. Yes, I will give it's very possible the Eldan designed the Mechari specifically so they couldn't use magic. Just sitting here reading your post a list of Sci-Fi examples of machines going rogue come to mind as reasons why they might have done that.
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  15. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Well... assuming that the Mechari in the vid was using a "Mag Pistol" is reaching. He could have been using a sidearm from another class. Or just been a mindless drone soldier that's not allowed to have a larger weapon. Simply because a vid shows a race using a Pistol doesn't mean that race can use magic pistols. On the other hand we still don't know how the magic functions, so Mechari using Mag Pistols isn't written out, but it's not confirmed either.
  16. Sweetloaf

    Sweetloaf Cupcake

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    To be honest, I thought that was a shotgun. Also, didn't it fold out of his arm or something?
  17. Jarinolde

    Jarinolde Cupcake-About-Town

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    Can always just wait until the third expansion when they release new, totally lore unfriendly class combo's =p
  18. Drayvo

    Drayvo Cupcake

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    "Beep boop beep. That does not compute!" -Blitzcrank

    Riot games makes up their own lore too and they have magical robots YOLO
  19. CaRaDaGaiTa

    CaRaDaGaiTa Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'm totally against race/class limitations. Why not allow all races to be able to play any class? It would be so much better!
  20. jackashflash

    jackashflash Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because robots can't be cowboys. They are too heavy for the horses.

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