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Wildstar article on Massively

Discussion in 'WildStar General' started by Split_Light, Jul 29, 2013.

  1. Split_Light

    Split_Light Cupcake

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  2. Jimbob767

    Jimbob767 New Cupcake

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    I'm sure solo end game has been mentioned before, anyone else know about solo end game? TBH end game raiding is more my cup of tea. :)
  3. Xevius

    Xevius Cupcake

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    That opinion puff piece was nothing more than a disguised "I'm impatient, let me in closed beta!" cry.

    I'd rather Carbine reveal information when they're ready and confident in whatever it is they're telling us. The majority of us are not privy to any of that right now, and we need to stop demanding it.

    Test, test, test, test away Carbine devs!
  4. binzer

    binzer Cupcake

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    I dabble in everything, so solo endgame isn't a concern for me, but I do wonder what those "soloists" out there would like as their end game content. More story? Quests? Crafting? Social stuff? I have played some mmos as a solo player, but I viewed them more as offline rpgs, and just happily quit and moved on once I got to the end.

    It seems to me that solo end game is a lot harder to design for. Raids, dungeons, and battlegrounds are all designed with the intent of being repeated many many times. They remain fun because they're group activities so each experience feels fun and unique.

    Solo content is usually not repeatable, or gets boring fast (imo) and it's not realistic to have a constant stream of new content that would fill hours per day. What is the solution, or what would you hope that the solution is?

    I think that wanting a solo endgame is a valid complaint, but it's rare that someone actually clarifies what that content should be. Thoughts?
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  5. BlueDragon18

    BlueDragon18 Cupcake-About-Town

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    Yep, the devs have discussed solo end game content a few times.
  6. Split_Light

    Split_Light Cupcake

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    I actually disagree here. I think some of his points are pretty legitimate. At this stage of the game I'm not entirely sure why they're holding back some very basic information. Perhaps I've just been burned by one to many MMO who promise the world, then deliver nowhere near what they've hyped. The cynical part of me wonders what are they not telling us, why are they holding back certain information, and what are they promising that flat out won't actually be there.

    I try to keep my little cynical voice in check, but occasionally it rears its ugly head and fills me with a bit of worry.
  7. ImpactHound

    ImpactHound Cupcake-About-Town

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    It boils down to glory days-era stories of Ultima Online & a few text MUDs mixing in with japanese animu and mangos about MMOs. As a result there seems to be a collective unconcious memory of some game with Wild West, factionless, kill anyone-anywhere pvp with limitless crafting that never happened but every game tries to copy. Add a dash of whatever nostalgia you have for your first MMO and we have a recipe for something that has never nor will ever exist.

    I was perfectly content buying a Dreamcast just for Phantasy Star Online, grinding to 40 before daring to go online and party so I didn't seem noobish, and was content to grind the same four areas for about a year and a half because everyone played so differently and it felt good to mesh as a team. Also the threat of hackers killing you and stealing your money and weapons, and the elusive red weapon drops that almost never happened.

    I'm pretty happy with dailies rotating and randomizing so they stay fresh, some pvp, house decorating to get perks, and raiding if I build a good group of friends.
  8. Xevius

    Xevius Cupcake

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    I've been burned many times too, but I'm actually less cynical when info trickles out at a snail's pace.

    It's the: "We've got this! And this! And that over there! Oh, and this too, which is awesome!" that turns me off. The less hype, the better for me now a days.

    The huge laundry list of features and awesome stuff should be a thing of the past; most of it never makes it in the final game and you end up disappointing and burning folks like us.
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  9. Kataryna

    Kataryna Super Cupcake

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    they're holding out because they don't want to promise things that possibly won't happen. They've been presenting fairly polished stuff every time that they put something out there - like when they announced Housing - they had houses to show, it wasn't "oh we want to have housing, and these are our ideas" it was "here's housing, here's examples, it's in game and we have alpha/Friends&Family already playing with it"
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  10. Borz

    Borz Cupcake-About-Town

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    "This" stage of game? Meaning middle of beta?
    "Very basic information", like 1/3 of available classes?

    As they don't give release date sticking to 'when it's ready', you can't possible gauge overall state of game and how close it's to completion. And it's perfectly natual to not speak too much of elder game or "what will you add after launch" when you still hadn't revealed most of core gameplay. Why? Because most likely they don't have it finished, or in case of after-release stuff even planned properly.
    They don't talk about crafting. This might mean it's not yet fleshed out to it's final form, or is not going to be focus of game at any point, both perfectly valid reason not to talk about something.


    They reveal what they think is readr for reveal. Game is not getting released tomorrow, plenty of things can and should still be under developement that can change it entirely. And revealing information that won't be true after they change something is very very bad. That's exact reason why NDA exists. So they can change things easly. So they can reveal things they consider finishied.
  11. Roguehandle

    Roguehandle Cupcake

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    I am a solo player.

    But in all the latest MMO's I have to be in a party or join a guild. It is a sad fact but MMO's now is a group thing. Yes, it can be fun being with others but people like me tend to solo and group when I have a quest that forces me into a hard dungeon.

    Cant really fault the game makers. They will never be able to please everyone all the time.

    Me and PvP? *Hiss Hiss*
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  12. Inukeu

    Inukeu Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'll be worried about these things if no news is revealed about them after August's events if they still intend to release this year if there going to man up and change "when its ready" to "delayed till next year" then I wont mind at all if they hold things back because there still working on them
  13. Agent Drew

    Agent Drew Cupcake-About-Town

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    I'd be more concerned if they had a solid release date and little info on many key aspects of the game.

    Yea SWTOR, I'm looking at you....
  14. Gronky

    Gronky Cupcake-About-Town

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    Guys doesn't have any new info and is crying like the rest of us ;) Carbine is not 100% sure when they will have they release date so why would they spill all the beans now. And then what, what if release is postponed for another 3 months. They need to keep some major information just in case.
    And things like crafting... I think they will be changing and tweaking it for a long time. It is probably as tricky as raids balancing if not more, so I expect it to be revealed not sooner than with the release date.
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  15. Zellfel

    Zellfel Cupcake-About-Town

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    The comments from dirtyklingon in this article are particularly interesting. I didn't realize Wildstar was that far behind in development.
  16. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    I'm sympathetic toward solo players (I solo sometimes, but am not sure if I'd consider myself to be a solo player since I also like to group), so I'd say that part of the issue might be that there's so very little solo content that a lot of people asking for it are looking for anything other than the dull daily quests that are usually offered as endgame content.

    Personally, this would be my request list:
    1. I'd like to see a series of story-heavy quests or instances meant for solo players or duos/trios.
    2. I'd like crafting that matters beyond making an entry-level set of raid or PvP gear and that doesn't exclusively rely on materials that drop in raids. I'm fine with some things dropping there, but a whole level of crafting progression relies on raid mats, the only crafters will be raiders.
    3. There are varieties of solo-friendly content that are non-linear or that are highly progression-based but have nothing to do with character stats. I'm particularly thinking of WildStar's housing, WoW's Pokemon combat, and certain kinds of minigames.
    I would like to quibble with the idea that solo players are asking for unusually large amounts of new content compared to purely group-oriented players. Raids and dungeons might be designed to be repeated many times, but I think most people who have done them will admit that having a group did not make the experience fun and unique after a certain point, and there's a certain segment of the player base that tires of group content very quickly and requests more of it. This is an MMO player problem and probably a human nature problem, not a solo problem.
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  17. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    As I said over there, I think some of his worries are justified and that others are just a reflection of Eliot's own particular hobbyhorses. Now, there's nothing wrong with having a hobbyhorse. I think most players do. But I think you have to be careful mixing up not hearing about yours with there being trouble in paradise.

    Not doing a crafting update early on doesn't mean that there's something about the crafting system that needs to be hidden. It more likely means that some things are still being tweaked, and that crafting is being saved for a later update, since the ugly truth is that it doesn't always make for the most dynamic videos.

    I care quite a bit about solo endgame, but realistically speaking, we've only gotten brief descriptions of any of the endgame activities. I'm not sure how Eliot has come to the conclusion that we've been hearing a lot about raids and warzones lately. We've had confirmation of various features, but there hasn't been much in depth discussion and we haven't had promotional videos focusing on those topics. I would say that the overall lack of discussion of endgame is a signal the game may be delayed, but I think it's an overreaction to focus on one particular elder game and assume that because it hasn't been revealed in advance of all the other elder games, it will be absent or neglected or low in quality.

    That's even more the case with story updates, something that seems most logical to discuss when the game is quite close to release. Giving players a Coming Soon list when the game isn't even launching for six months will just make the wait for those updates and any delays of them seem excruciating. Also, like it or not, the extent and frequency of game updates is going to depend in part on WildStar's success at release. A number of recent launches have been caught making promises they ultimately couldn't keep, and at this point, I'm not sure pledges of monthly updates would even mean anything to most players.

    Aside from the lack of discussion of endgame, generally, I do think the lack of a release date and particularly the lack of an announcement of a business model may signal a delay until 2014. I wouldn't consider that to be any sort of particular disaster, however, unless the delay was extensive enough that we were all still posting about the subject this time next year.
  18. Anorissa

    Anorissa Cupcake

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    Maybe Carbine isn't releasing a lot of info about in-game stuff because they want to keep some things a surprise? Like, for crafting, maybe they don't want the people to know the different professions before getting into the game. Maybe they want the players to find that out for themselves in-game.

    But I would love it if they'd release a business model plan, so I know whether to tell people to give me money for Wildstar game time for Christmas or not lol
  19. eselle8

    eselle8 Well-Known Cupcake

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    That one seems unlikely, as that information is so easily compiled by beta testers.

    I could see it being more likely in the case of story-based content like solo instances or certain raid content.
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  20. CriSPeH

    CriSPeH Cupcake-About-Town

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    I have a problem with the article because it takes issue with things that haven't been discussed and iono to me that sounds.....well just stupid.

    Why are you going to take issue and worry about your own speculation because you don't have the available information?
    Do we really NEED every single little detail to be released about the game and leave nothing up to surprise or discovery?
    To me that seems like opening and thoroughly reading through an entire players guide/walkthrough to a game before you even pop it in and play it.

    Just because a company has decided not to reveal all their cards doesn't mean they are just ashamed of having a bad hand. I remember reading 2 articles/reviews about WoW before I hopped in and started playing, besides a few brief dabbles it was the first MMORPG I had played and a huge chunk of my time with the game was taking up with discovery of all the things the game had and how it worked.

    Nowadays it seems like everyone wants every single aspect spelled out exactly so they can criticize and compare it to all the aspects they have already encountered. Seems like alot ppl don't fully appreciate the new dilemma game developers face in this day and age where almost nothing can remain secret for long, so you know that your game is going to be drug through the ringer months and years before its even ready. This has positives of course and in the MMO genre it can be helpful to create a better game, but really take any thread on this site that discusses gameplay choices and you will see a mountain of arguments complimenting and criticizing those decisions. These mountains of arguments will continue throughout the entire life of the game with pages and pages in forums asking "why the hell is this like this and not like this!!!???". The fact is you can't please everyone with everything so best case scenario is you get those ppl hooked on other aspects of the game and hope it will outweigh their dislikes of others. You fail to do this when you show your entire hand and players who might have grown to love your game are put off because they judged it way too early.

    The 3rd paragraph of the article basically summed it up for me when he declares that he could dig around for the information he is missing through NDA breakers but instead he chooses to speculate and complain. He could also just be patient and wait for the information to come out and find out if any of his concerns are valid but once again he chooses to instead write about how no evidence is actually evidence in itself.

    You could do this with anything and it will still mean absolutely nothing in the end. I am in love with what I have seen so far about the game The Division (for next gen consoles) but what I have seen is very little, I could start going on and on about why isn't there more info about this game and most next gen games for that matter, is it because all the games suck and they don't want us to know? is it just simply game devs want to try and protect that old element of discovery and surprise for when the game is actually released? or is it simply just TOO EARLY to start speculating and whining about aspects of a game that has yet to receive a release date?

    In the end its just arguments for arguments sake!
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