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WildStar Wednesday - State of the Beta

Discussion in 'WildStar News' started by Yakzan, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. SebsokK

    SebsokK New Cupcake

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    Because if he needs more DPS, he had to choose to play DPS from the beginning this little XP Leecher. By now, everybody that played an MMORPG in his life should know that it is "DPS or die".
    (Just kidding)
  2. They

    They New Cupcake

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    I am happy to see that! sadly i don't think that any of those changes will make the players group more... :( Wildstar need more grouping!
  3. silvershadez

    silvershadez Cupcake

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    This guy hit the nail for me...

    Seeing something as trivial as this mechanic changed, makes me wonder what kind of an end result we can expect. From all the latest game releases we had so far I'm coming to a point where I'm in doubt that those people getting invited to beta-tests really are those people that fullfill that role properly. Nowadays alot of people want to get in beta "just" to see the game before anyone else. Personally I don't think I would fullfill that role of a "real" beta-tester myself. That's why I didn't even sign up for it.
  4. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

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    Love it

    Finally we monetize the boring part of quests for accessibility and retain that epic feel of a story line
  5. Thaylin

    Thaylin New Cupcake

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    When it comes to preventing griefing, mob tagging is a better way to go about it. You typically cannot tag every mob in an area, even with AOEs there is a chance for a player to consistently tag something to level. With this system a player may or may not be able to get xp, depending on where the xp floor is, and depending on who is griefing.
    Alverad likes this.
  6. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    I'm trying to figure this out. Are you and those that agree worried that Carbine is going or going to go down the path of changes done to please their fans? I agree that they need to be careful of that because the players are not always right. But, I keep rereading the complaints and the announcement and can't figure out what the uproar is about. The quest change is cosmetic for the most part. We'll have a bar now instead of a x/10 display for the quest. The quest is still the same. As for the tagging issue, hell I'm not sure their is an issue. There is a lot of gnashing of teeth over what might happen.

    So that brings me back to your concern. Are you concerned that they are changing a, for all intents and purposes, mechanic that is not game breaking or because you feel they will continue to cater to the player base? Or, are you concerned because the game may release later? I feel I would be thinking like you if they were changing crafting or combat or PvP or Raiding, but they're not. So, what's the real problem with them listening to the testers on this? And to other folks who seemed to be so distraught on what they are changing, why?

    I have read this whole thread and seems like small potatoes to be concerned with. I'm just not getting it?
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  7. Zaelesis

    Zaelesis New Cupcake

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    From what i get the concern is that the way exp is rewarded in groups is not exactly clear. For the most part, I believe people are in the mindset that you will earn the same amount of exp from the mob but split evenly, so you would have to kill more. If that is the case then most pure dps will not care and the support characters will suffer under the new system because burst players could potentially kill anything they attack before they hit the % needed for minimum.

    With that, under the new system, a group of 5 players would have to kill 5 times as many in order to get the quest complete then when you solo, again helping support/tanks but holding back dps. This would be counteracted by killing a larger single mob to grant more exp per player but that brings up the question: How much more experience does a larger mob reward and how long does it take to kill it in order to make it better then solo? If you make the mob reward too much greater then everyone will group and solo players will feel like they are being left out. On the other hand, if the reward isnt greater at all or relatively equal, then no one will care to ground because its not worth the time.

    The griefing side point is moot. People who grief are going to grief regardless of what you do.
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  8. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    I would understand that point if they hadn't said this...

    By basing quest completion off XP gains, players can now choose to go after larger targets or smaller targets and earn quest progress appropriate for those choices. While killing harder things is slower, you will earn more quest progress for it. Those who prefer to fight easy things will kill faster, but progress more slowly for it.

    A group should be going after the harder content and get a better reward. One, because it harder and two, because they can kill more. The only way it would less efficient or a problem is if Carbine allowed the soloer the ability to kill the harder content at the same pace as the group. That would be dumb.
  9. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    You must play a ranged class... If you go into a mob tagging game where you're melee and there's a lot of people, you generally have to sit at one location and hope and pray that those DoT AoE's don't simply tag everything at the spawn point before you. This isn't even someone trying to grief, it's just when there's a bottleneck area with legitimate players. It can take someone around 5 times as long to get through a bottleneck if they have no DoT AoE, as those who do.

    So, tagging systems, especially early in the game cycle will create a feeling of being a second class citizen for most melee classes. It also makes bottlenecks extremely annoying. If you only get a couple hits on a mob with an XP shared system, at least you can still progress through the quest, and don't have a feeling of continual uselessly fighting mobs to help the respawn happen faster.
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  10. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So, I think the reason the changes were put in place was because the metrics weren't coming out how they liked. They wanted players to have a reasonable reason to group so that support characters could simply play support roles (or support-ish roles) the entire game, so that they would be "trained" as a support role the entire game. They also didn't want to give too much of an advantage that grouping becomes the only way to level, so you sign in, and if none of your friends are on, you sign back out.

    I think what they're attempting to do is make it so players are regularly forming groups and community ties throughout the entire levelling experience. One issue WoW had/has was that you leveled (usually alone) and then got to end game content, had to learn how to play your role correctly, and also learn how to find a group. This is how most players played it. Carbine is attempting to make grouping and community health a continuous organic system throughout levelling, that just acts the same once you're max level.

    One issue with giving too much of an advantage to a group, is that players and guilds start to become cliquish, because they know they have a "needed" commodity. So, if you instead make it so that the players are not severely hindered by grouping, but at the same time there's only enough advantage to make it worth finding a group, you get a constantly in flux grouping system, where you may have preferences for friends to play with, and try to do that most often, but occasionally go out on your own, and end up getting in too deep where you need a group.

    The most important thing an MMO game needs to do is make systems which are conducive to the type of community they're attempting to build. If the statistics, metrics and analytics automatically line up how they're supposed to, then the game system's built correctly, if not, then things need to be tweaked to make it so.

    Another important thing to note here is that questing and the milestone system really have very little to do with elder game. Since they're both having to do with the progression of the player as they are levelling, and not at max level. This means Carbine could spend this time testing Raids and elder game PVP still to ensure that this content is well tuned, and ready to go as soon as the questing is finished. That means the release date is constrained almost solely by the two changes they mentioned most recently and a little bit of fine tuning with the end systems.

    I don't know if they will go ahead with elder game testing, but they certainly could.
  11. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    So one thing to note is that the mobs killed go into the bar for completing a quest. So, you get a % of completion depending on what mob you killed. This means that in a group you can kill larger mobs which will give equivalent completion to the quest. The end goal is that all players will finish the quest based on effort input, as opposed to finding the weakest mob and just killing that, and being at a disadvantage (time-wise) when you're killing higher difficulty mobs.

    So, if you level the playing field what it actually does is allows players to dynamically pick which mobs they want to fight, based on proximity, and ability to kill the mob or not. This means groups will be able to tackle mobs that solo players can't or that would take too long for a solo player to be worthwhile. So players can pick and choose which mobs to fight at real-time speeds, meaning, if there's a crapload of solo players killing all the solo mobs, your group can simply go fight a big mob off in the corner. If there aren't a lot of solo players and instead a lot of groups, it behooves you to stick to solo for a bit until your environment changes.

    It allows the players to self balance the ecosystem of solo players and groups as well as group sizes, without having to worry about who they're grouping with (really). The idea is to normalize effort, so that players aren't abusing groups or not grouping in order to level faster.

    TLDR; The new system allows a player to walk into a zone, see what's dead and what's alive, and make a snapshot decision on if they should be in a group or not at that moment.
  12. John

    John "That" Cupcake

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    The specific change doesn't bother me, its more the principal that they will shut down their entire beta and push everything back because of an issue as small as this. If it truly was just a small change I don't think people would have issue with it; its the fact that its seemingly a fairly large "problem" to solve, enough so that they have to close the beta.
  13. Witless

    Witless "That" Cupcake

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    Alright I can see that point. I'm still not sure it's a large problem and that's primarily because I'm not totally surprised they closed beta down. I wondered if they might when they concentrated on Raid testing, which they might be doing soon based on there statements a couple of months ago.

    Also, and I admit I'm reading into this, I am speculating that they are change what they said and putting final touches on all other things and the next CBT could be the last.

    /shrug
  14. Thaylin

    Thaylin New Cupcake

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    actually I have played both, and have never seen a melee class that did not have some sort of ranged tagging skill. In addition early on most people are not going to be mass AOEing so I am not sure where that point comes from.

    No, you have to reach a specific threshold, there is no clue how many hits would be required.

    Than again I am getting tired of theme parks and want more sand box feeling which this is more and more looking like it is not going to be.
  15. Onikoroshi

    Onikoroshi New Cupcake

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    I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already, because I don't have time to read all 10 pages at work, but I was thinking it would be better if you got xp/rewards for any damage you did to the target, as well as any damage the target did to you (for tanks), as well as any damage anyone you healed did to the target. The healing thing would have to be altered somehow to prevent healers from just wandering around tossing cheap heals on everyone in sight to steal xp. Perhaps some sort of function of how much healing they do to the person? It could be done, imo.

    Basically, I feel that *anyone* should be able to jump in on a fight, help out in any way, and get *some* rewards, whether they're officially "grouped" up or not. This encourages true grouping without forcing people to form official groups. This would allow unofficial groups to form and break up more organically in the world.
  16. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    Why I might say no is not the real question here (I’m a Soloer; not someone soloing while waiting on a group.). The real question is why they are running around soloing a support build; when there is no one around to support.
    There are no just support classes in W*; every fricken class is a DPS&Support. We are not talking about WoW (or even most MMOs) with locked archetypes. W* has a LAS system with dual archetypes; DPS&Healer/Tank, and to re-emphasize this; from everything I have read it’s and Healer/Tank, not or.
    If they are running around soloing with a support build, it’s because they chose to run around with a support build. They chose to make life harder on themselves; which is stupid game play (Not something I’m interested in supporting.).

    As for the potential XP issue; I thought it was only in the raiding game, where people got so fricken anal about every little point and detail. The last thing I had heard was that there is about 300 hours’ worth of leveling content in W*, and that leveling would take about 150 hours. You do the fricken math.

    As for bothersome people; every MMO has them.
  17. Xevius

    Xevius Cupcake

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    I have no problem with the changes.

    What's kind of head spinning though, is a common theme I'm finding in this discussion...

    Carbine is taking feedback from beta testers and using that to implement changes in their game.

    And the reaction is:

    "Ugh, we have to wait longer for the game to come out."
    "They're caving to beta feedback." (followed up with doom and gloom statements).
    "I'm losing interest because I can't play the game. RIGHT NOW!"


    You can't eat your cake and have it too, guys/gals.

    Because we all know if Carbine ignored testers and released a terrible game in 2013, you'd be all over their nuts about how the community was thrown to the wayside and that they (Carbine) shouldn't have rushed the game out the door to make the holiday season.

    *walks away in disbelief*
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  18. Thaylin

    Thaylin New Cupcake

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    And if they cave to testers and make a <REDACTED>ty game because of it whose nuts should be be all over? How about they just make a great game regardless and we wont worry about whose nuts to be all over, personally I dont like being all over guy's nuts.
  19. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    At the beginning of Expansions and the beginning of a game (somewhere up until like... 3 months or so in) you have a huge amount of players where you're at capacity for the zone, and respawn rates are maxed, but still have too many players. In these cases with a mob tagging system, where first hit wins all the xp, and loot and the mob itself, players who have an AoE DoT that they can spam can tag the mob as soon as it appears. Most ranged classes have something that can do this, most melee do not.

    The threshold only has to do with xp and "quest kill", in that a player has to do something to the mob to get credit for the xp given and completion amount to the quest. This means that if a player puts effort into killing a mob they still get something from it. On the other hand, in a tagging system if the mob is hit first, it's tagged and only gives credit to the first hit or most damage.

    Tagging does not fix the griefing issue at all is what I'm trying to point out. You can definitely still go around and tag all the monsters right before someone else attacks them. Then you go back to fighting the mob that you were originally attacking, while the other guy gets aggro on the mob you tagged. If people want to grief, they're going to grief, and any system which allows two people to attack the same mob will be able to do that. The system they implemented allows players to temporarily help each other, whether in group or out of group, and still get rewarded for that.

    This game is not a sandbox, it is a theme park with sandbox elements. If you're looking for sandbox, go minecraft, or EQ Next when it comes out.
  20. BlindSear

    BlindSear Super Cupcake

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    Unless of course the beta feedback is saying that it's not fun.

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