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WildStar Wednesday - State of the Beta

Discussion in 'WildStar News' started by Yakzan, Aug 7, 2013.

  1. Jeuraud

    Jeuraud Cupcake-About-Town

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    I played EQ at release, and it was a MOB tag system at that time, and it was a pain in the ass if you were melee around ranged characters. There were none of those newfangled jumps to the MOB skills; you had to run up to the MOB and tag it. Where the <REDACTED> do you think the term kill-stealing came from.

    I think you should do one better; you should do as you do in a P&P RPG (Especially ones without Res.). Your character dies; you crumple up the paper and throw it in the trash, and roll up a new one.

    Now if you’re not getting it… this is sarcasm.
    There has not been a competitive MMORPG that has had XP loss since EQ, and that’s because the player base will not put up with it. The player base put up with EQ because it was pretty much the only thing out there. There was UO but that was a griefer’s game, and Asheron’s Call came out about six months after EQ. Just late enough so that you were already vested in EQ, just early enough so that you were not yet fed up with EQ. When DAoC came out people baled on EQ in droves; despite DAoC being touted as more of an RvR game, than PvE. CoH and SWG pulled even more people out of EQ, and WoW pretty much killed EQ as a competitive MMO (Note; competitive at that time was not millions of subscribers.).

    And yet no MMORPG since EQ that has forced grouping has been even close to being competitive (In the west.). We humans are a social animal; despite that, many of us don’t like being told that we have to group.
  2. Kida

    Kida New Cupcake

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    Take a look at some of the combat in the released videos. Most mobs use some kind of cleave or AOE skills, so you spend around half of your time dodging the big red telegraphs (more and more red stuff the closer you get to the level cap). So your uptime on a mob will never be 100% (or you take some big punches meaning you will have to regen before the next pull). BUT if you group up with someone that means that one of you can stay at the back of the mob (which will be less likely targeted by the mob's AOE skills) giving your groupmate more uptime. So you won't just kill mobs twice as fast but even faster than soloing.
    Also we don't know how much downtime there will be between pulling mobs: even if you evade all of the mob's special attacks it will still hit you with its auto attacks. We don't know yet how much white damage your average mob will dish out, but if it's more than in WoW then you might have to take a breather once in a while. Thus downtime. Now how good it would be to have a buddy to throw you some healing orbs in times like this? Or have someone who can take more beating than you tank the mobs while you clobber them to death?
    I don't think killing mobs in this game will be just "right click on it and smash dem buttons!!".
    Sonntam likes this.
  3. Shinozuka

    Shinozuka Cupcake

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    Well not if there is a mentoring system like RIFT . I thought someone said that was pretty much confirmed. ??

    Your level 30 And hit a button now you type in your new level. Poof you are level 15.

    Pretty much how it is in RIFT.
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  4. Splash

    Splash New Cupcake

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    I had to go back and re-read the WW article, but here is the section I think is at issue here:

    "...but also encourages players to help out a passerby in the open world in order to receive a comparable XP reward."

    The thing we need to realize is that we don't have an understanding of what "comparable" means at this point. It keeps getting said that someone can steal another player's xp, but I can't really see how that is the case.

    From the videos I have watched it looks like it can take some effort and time to kill a single mob at equal level to the player. So if I spend two minutes killing a single mob for 100 xp then my rate of xp gain could be described as 50 xp a minute (not taking into account the time to get to the next mob needing to be killed). If I am under a minute into a fight and another player comes by and helps me kill the mob in a minute, but instead of my normal 100 xp I only get 50 xp, I've still not lost anything because I'm still at 50 xp a minute.

    Another example: In a one hour period if it takes you two minutes to kill a mob and there is no downtime between kills you can kill 30 mobs. If each mob is worth 100 xp you would have 3000 xp an hour.

    But if someone was following you around and helping you kill the mobs, but you were not grouped and you both did equal damage to each mob and together you could kill a mob a minute, you would kill 60 mobs in an hour. Now assuming a 50/50 slip in xp since you are both doing equal damage to the mob, each mob would be 50 xp. 60 mobs times 50 xp each is ... 3000 xp an hour!

    The other player really didn't change the net income of the primary player in this example when they weren't grouped.

    This really is an over simplification and is assuming a 50/50 split in xp between the two players, but this is really what we are debating here; xp gain over time and how much of an impact another ungrouped player would have on that curve. Overall I don't think that another player would have that much of an impact to the xp curve of another player.

    But two players grouped could feasible double their rate of xp gain. For comparison sake, if both players were grouped and were killing a mob a minute for one hour then they would kill 60 mobs and both would get 100 xp each. 60 mobs times 100 xp each is 6000 xp an hour.

    I for one would be shooting every stranger I come across a group invite, because it would be stupid not to. Isn't this what everyone is always yelling about anyway? Forcing players to be social in an online game.

    There are also many other factors that play into this that we don't know yet; how dense is the player population going to be in the zones; what is the mob density; etc. We are looking at a single piece of the puzzle and without the whole picture we can't do educated analysis of what the impact of this new tagging system is going to be on players.
    Sonntam likes this.
  5. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

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    This
  6. Kewissa

    Kewissa New Cupcake

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    My only concern with this is the possible problem of mob stealing. If someone wants the mob I'm working on, it won't matter if I started a fight and don't need or want their help... if they can do more damage, I loose the majority of xp... and what about loot? will that go to who did the most damage or the person that started the fight?

    I don't mind the grouping change, or the meter... but it also means that if I don't want to have to find a group to level every second of my time online... I really have to be dps... and apparently be more awesome at it than the griefers out there.
  7. Kewissa

    Kewissa New Cupcake

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    You are assuming that both did equal damage here. What if they are a higher level dps going and you are a tank or healer (thus do less damage). In this case they will get more xp than you because they can do more damage in a short amount of time. In this case, you are not getting equal xp, nor is it guaranteed to shorten the time it takes to kill it by enough to equal out over time.
  8. Sonntam

    Sonntam Cupcake-About-Town

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    Then you can send them an invite. If they decline, you can go and quest in a different area, so that you don't run into each other. Perhaps elsewhere will be cleverer players that will know that grouping up with a tank creates less downtime for both and faster XP gain.
  9. Fishsticks

    Fishsticks Cupcake-About-Town

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    Not sure if trolling or just woefully uninformed.

    How can you reference DAoC in your post and not know that there was an XP penalty for death?


    As an actual point of fact: DAoC, CoH, and Aion all had XP penalties upon death, as did many other competitive MMOs which have been released since EQ.
  10. Kiath

    Kiath New Cupcake

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    Can't wait to see how many ppls will play it when it's released !! :)
  11. dae

    dae New Cupcake

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    Well, personally i think this new system will be much better for wildstar..
    why?
    1. its based on feedback from players who actually tested the game

    2. completing quest will be faster because :
    almost all dmg caused to mobs will be rewarded - filling players quest bar.
    at the moment when u are doing a quest where u have to kill certain numbers of creatures, and there is rly too much players in that area, these things happens : You, exile aurin spellslinger see the creature, start attacking and do some serious dmg to him (because of ur spell surge(bonus dmg) and fully chargin ur XY spell/attack) when u realize that someone was faster and tagged that mob before u do.. so u wander around finding mobs thats are not already tagged , wasting time.. (but u only need last one ! :p )

    3.grouping with just anyone ( tank, healer, dps etc) will help u to complete quests faster .. ur telegraph abilities do aoe dmg so u want to attack more mobs at once, but because mobs are rly strong in wildstar and have so much HP, killing more than 2 mobs at time is rly challenging for solo play and cause death rly often.. yes u will die in wildstar

    4. well someone said it will be anoying for u when some scumbag steal xp from ur tagged mob.. but it means that after ur mob is dead, u have for example : 50%xp , 100% of loot, 50% time spent .. so for u it is win and for that scumbag it is win too coz he needed only that few xp to complete the quest

    and i think we have to see and test it in game how exactly will it affect ur gaming experience and fun overall

    sry for my english, not rly native language

    ** carbine is doing rly fantastic job with wildstar, just trust them.. i feel it will be rly great game after all.. let them and testers do their job , they are gamers like us :D
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  12. wizaki21

    wizaki21 New Cupcake

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    Sounds like a refreshing change to me. I am eager to see how the mechanic effects grouping as compared to solo questing.
  13. Wolvy

    Wolvy Cupcake

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    I am having a hard time understanding why people need to have a reward for helping someone. I don't know how many times in WoW I have helped folks I don't even know knock down a tough mob or save their bacon from impending death. Hell it was how I met my fiancee. But even if it's only a "oh man! Thanks so much!" or a /salute, /bow then that is enough for me. But having to have XP, or some type of reward or I am not helping or saving you from death is kind of sad.

    If I normally come across someone with multiple mobs I target them and watch. If they are near death I jump in and help. If they have lik3 3/4 health then I watch to make sure. I don't know how many times I have died only to watch a person stand there and do nothing or come up and then attack the mob I was attacking because they needed it instead of maybe waiting a couple minutes for a respawn.
    Alverad likes this.
  14. Konoko

    Konoko Cupcake-About-Town

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    Well they have lost a lot of people's attention. Just look at the activity on this site. It seems to have died down. I for one have completely lost any real enthusiasm for this game. I"m sure the game will be "OK" but it's not turning out to be what I had hoped.

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