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WildStar's Payment Model Revealed

Discussion in 'WildStar News' started by Yakzan, Aug 19, 2013.

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  1. Destrin

    Destrin Cupcake

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  2. Wolvy

    Wolvy Cupcake

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  3. Roadblock

    Roadblock Cupcake-About-Town

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    Beating a couple dead horses.

    We know WildStar won't be F2P, move along already.
    P2P is not "the magic bullet" either it looks like seing as CoH (the previous game he produced) not only had to go from P2P > "hybrid" (not F2P) it eventually closed shop entirely.
    If that's an example of a successful P2P game I'm not sure I want to know what a failed one is.
    He's saying "if you can convince a couple hundred thousand people to pay 15$/month for some time, you can make more money than selling 6m boxes, even if your game eventually fails enough to get shut down".
    Don't be so surprised when some people see nothing more to CREDD than a cash grab then.

    Anything to avoid discussing specifics about the model they have actually picked and not the F2P boogie-man (or is it strawman?)
    Ok, we got it F2P is bad (for WildStar) why are you not going with subscription then?
    The original article is so full of contradictory statements it's not even funny.
    http://www.pcgamesn.com/wildstar-pr...subscription-mmos-free-plays-not-magic-bullet

    F2P bad
    CREDD good
    F2P bad
    CREDD good
    (did I say 'direct' I think it was missing a direct somewhere in there)
    :rolleyes:

    Eve is doing it though, case closed (totally similar games)
  4. Sharkee

    Sharkee Cupcake

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  5. Kayelia

    Kayelia Cupcake

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    *does the math*


    Admittedly, I don't know what he has in mind as the box price when he says this. I just figured out the $60 one and went down. Also, the math is to break even. They would have to last more than shown to actually make more. If you think I screwed up the math, feel free to provide corrections.

    I don't think the math works in Jeremy Gaffney's favor here. If wikipedia is accurate, City of Heroes lasted a little over 7 years before switching to the hybrid model. It then got shut down a little over a year after that. It doesn't seem like CoH got to the point where it overcame 6mil box sales unless a very large amount of those box sales were at $40. His comparison is to GW2 which has a higher normal price (read: not sale price) and has already claimed 3+ mil sales. That's not good if he's thinking 6mil sales at an average of $40 each.

    "If they last long enough." That's a big if.

    Nice catch. :coffee:
  6. Farmerbob

    Farmerbob New Cupcake

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    You are completely dodging reality here. The developers know that they WILL NOT stop RMT in their game. Every developer with any common sense at all has given up on that years ago. It's either CREDD (or a crazy pay-to-win cash shop, which in many ways is the same thing), or anarchy. There is zero middle ground. None. Period.

    The best way for the developers to handle the dark underbelly of RMT is to provide a channel that they can regulate in some way, and allow the players to handle valuation from there.

    As for your other concerns about in-game pricing and whatnot, that's what beta is for. The general public doesn't have a say yet, and shouldn't have a say yet. Nothing will stop adjustments later, after release, but during beta, the dev team looks at the beta testers - what they say and what they do. They also keep an eye out on certain forums, I'm sure, but when you are developing a large project there's only so much input you can accept from forums and emails and personal interactions before you get too much information.
  7. Sharkee

    Sharkee Cupcake

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    After some careful reading, I can tell you one thing - C.R.E.D.D. is going to work out just fine with some minor tweaks and adjustments. Think of it as a miniature model of our own world economy, and as much as you might think it sucks, but the people with more income will control CREDD, no doubt, but it's also a good thing. Because people who know how to make in-game cash will also have control over them, if you hold out on prices when you think they are too high and it's not worth it, guess what, they will drop it. No one wants to invest 20 bucks and throw them out the window, no matter how rich you are.
    Because they are investing money, same as you are investing time in getting that sweet, sweet in-game cash, and for those who say that they are afraid that they won't be able to afford anything else but CREDD,well think of it as an investment if one month you buy that sub, but in return you get an epic mount and you can farm what you need to make money twice as fast, all of a sudden your investment has paid off, and you can go back to buying CREDD and save some cash for that rainy day.
    All i'm trying to say is that, just give it a chance, because it just might work out and everybody comes out of it as a winner, and we won't have to look at gold spams as often. And I also heard that they hired an economist just to make sure that they have some control over sudden price fluctuation etc. The devs. are trying extremely hard here to make it work. I am really happy with what i've heard, read, seen, now i just can't wait for the game to come out and start playing. Keep positive guys, we're going to be delivered something truly spectacular.

    Sharkee
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  8. Failedlegend

    Failedlegend Cupcake

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    The problem with CREDD (economy wise I mean it has PLENTY of other issues) is their letting the community set the prices which never works out it will seem fine at first but people wioll learn how to game the system and eventually people will stop using it or only Kids and unemployed people living in their parents basement will have enough time to afford it and frankly I'd rather not attract those people to Wildstar.

    People like me who want the freedom to pay when they want through MTXs or B2P+Expansions (the latter being my preference with cash shop stuff limited to cosmetic and convenience items like name changes,server transfers,etc.) instead of being told to GTFO if I don't pay my "tribute" each month. If Carbine released a 60$ expansions every 4 months you'd still get the equivalent to 15/month but Devs are encouraged to make unique and interesting expansions since not buying an expansion doesn't bar you from the game.
  9. Zephiris

    Zephiris New Cupcake

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    Just look at EVE, it will work out perfectly fine. look at it from the positive side, players who put enough time into the game will be able to buy the CREDD's, and people who put them up at higher prices won't get sold and price will eventually drop to acceptable rate, it is simple economics there, as demand increases prices go up, and vice versa.

    Anyways, people with less time can use CREDD to get enough money to buy <whatever> they want to instead of needing to farm money alot. Win situation for them. And people who are able to spend alot of time will be able to play the game for free.
  10. Failedlegend

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    EVE really is an exception to the rule...yes ONE game was able to make it work right...mostly because their community is scary you mess with some of their "unwritten rules" and your fleet is dogged by vigilante justice.

    Every other game to attempt something like this has had it fall into uselessness. Not to mention it inherently creates a class system where Subbers who sell CREDD are treated like higher class citizens where CREDDers are begging for people to sell them their CREDD than Subbers who don't sell CREDD ending up somewhere in the middle.

    Also because CREDD costs more than a sub to buy its a risk to the purchaser especially if they sub for more than a month at a time. The risk will cause less people to be willing to buy CREDD cause the supply to be less inherently cause the price inflation to come even sooner due to the demand far exceeding the supply causing CREDDers to lose out on playing not because they don'/t have enough money but because there's no supply thus forcing them to sub for at least a month and hope they get a CREDD before it runs out.

    A system like this is like I said inherently flawed and has too many pitfalls that will cause anyone trying to play by CREDD to stop playing, cause the demand to go down causing the risk for selling CREDD to increase even more causing the price to go up even more...and so on and so forth.

    Simple fix make CREDD an in game purchase for X amount of Rotostar bucks or w/e the in-gmae currency is. Set by Carbine....this way theres no supply/demand issues, no ridiculous prices due to above mentioned issues and as long as the prices are fair CREDD could actually be a positive thing about Wildstar instead of a negative thing.
  11. Stanzo

    Stanzo New Cupcake

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    This is honestly the most brilliant idea of all the payment ideas, the one payment idea to rule them all....
    No but in all honesty, genius at hand and if only they could do something more like this with REAL economy. (IRL stuff, stuff no one cares about).
  12. Failedlegend

    Failedlegend Cupcake

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    The one payment idea "To rule them all" is to offer you consumers a choice instead of forcing one down their throat...Offer Sub, Offer B2P+Expansions, Hell offer them the "unlimited free trial" thing WoW does that's actually a really good idea to get people hooked, even offer the CREDD system for people who feel like utilizing that...actually for subbers its a cool idea to mix and match CREDD and Subs to get the occasional "free month" CREDD is still a dumb idea but there's no reason NOT to offer it as an option. The more options you offer the more people who will be satisfied they more you will make.


    Oh and thanks for this Kayelia it very much helps debunk the "Only subs make money" myth


    Box Purchase vs. Monthly Sub Calcs

    $60 * 6,000,000 = $360,000,000

    200,000 * $15 = $3,000,000

    360 / 3 = 120

    120 / 12 = 10 years


    $50 * 6,000,000 = $300,000,000

    200,000 * $15 = $3,000,000

    300 / 3 = 100

    100 / 12 = 8.333333333333333 years


    $40 * 6,000,000 = $240,000,000

    200,000 * $15 = $3,000,000

    240 / 3 = 80

    80 / 12 = 6.666666666666667 years


    Add in Expansions every 4-6 months and a sub-only game actually looks like a massively dumb idea.
  13. Sharkee

    Sharkee Cupcake

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    Ok, I don't want to be mean, and I usually am quite docile, but this is ridiculous. You're playing around with completely unbiased numbers here. Second of all, CREDD isn't a dumb idea just because you don't like it. And saying that it will somehow create "class" of people in the game? I've got news for you buddy, it happens all the time. As the game goes in, it saturates people on it's own, there's no need for any kind of special system to do that, and your comment: "only Kids and unemployed people living in their parents basement will have enough time to afford it and frankly I'd rather not attract those people to Wildstar."

    I love the option of trading in my cash for time to earn gold. The system works, people have traded gold for real cash in WoW and no i'm not talking about gold selling sites. Actual people sold gold for money, and they made quite the amount.

    "Time is money"- I see no reason why it should be any different in Wildstar.


    Sharkee
  14. Failedlegend

    Failedlegend Cupcake

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    To clarify when I said "Unemployed people living in their basement" I meant people who are there out of laziness not due to bad luck, an injury or anything else like that I went through that (due to a major injury) when I was younger and it was a nightmare

    As for "Kids" I don't like playing with them sorry I prefer mature people, also Wildstar is likely to be rated M based on its content so far so kids shouldn't be playing it anyways. To be fair though one of my players in my tabletop group occasionally brings his 12 yr old son and he's scarily mature for his age but he's the exception to the rule so I should say I prefer mature people age is irrelevant in some cases but in general age begets wisdom.

    As for the calculations they weren't mine they just illustrated my point quite well so I borrowed them if you'd like further insight into them you will have to inquire with Kayelia.

    As for CREDD I don't hate the idea of paying for your sub with in-game currency I though it was brilliant and was all ready to rejoice until I read that their pricing would be set by players in an auction house and trading would be impossible (so If I have two CREDD and my friend has none I can give himer/her 1 sp we can both continue playing) also it should cost the same amount as a normal sub to lessen the risk of purchasing CREDD. In short fantastic idea, executed badly.

    I also have NO issue with offering a Sub OPTION where I have the problem is making it the ONLY option and since CREDD is flawed at the moment it really is...there's no buisness reason NOT to offer a B2P+Expansions model option as well as sub and CREDD...the more options you give the more players you have the more players you have the more money you make...thats it, simple.
  15. Yakzan

    Yakzan "That" Cupcake

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    <Mod Monocle> I think the thread has run it's course for now resulting in nothing but toxic behavior. Locked. </Mod Monocle>
    Failedlegend and Destrin like this.
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