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Will classes with healing have an edge in PvP

Discussion in 'WildStar Classes & Paths' started by Migrayne, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. Migrayne

    Migrayne New Cupcake

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    I just watched that PvP video in the media section. Seeing the spellslinger do so well at keeping range and having a heal when he got low made me think of smugglers in SWTOR.

    For PvP, if one person can heal up during a longer fight and the other can't, its almost a sure win. So far only the ranged classes have heals. The melee classes do not. Does anyone see this as a potential issue in PvP?

    Even having 1 heal on your LAS is better then not being able to heal at all. Given that melee has the challenge of getting into range to do damage already should they also face not having any way to heal up from all the damage they take doing all that chasing?

    Without a burst class that can kill faster then the heal, healers have the edge. The fights seemed to take awhile which is more fun then 2 hit kills, but it gives the edge to the person that can hold out the longest.
  2. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

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    I really hope they won't balance the pvp in this game around 1v1 skirmishes.
  3. Xlugon Pyro

    Xlugon Pyro Super Cupcake

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    They will just to spite you.
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  4. BayLordYama

    BayLordYama New Cupcake

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    I think if mmorpg's are done right (which I am sure carbine is doing) player skill will weigh more than class mechanics.
  5. ruff_ethereal

    ruff_ethereal Well-Known Cupcake

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    I say "No." Healing will have an opportunity cost in WildStar, probably in the form of resources, a slow-down, and you not trying to kill your opponent while you try to heal yourself. I sincerely doubt Carbine will have a single heal so powerful you can basically undo a huge percentage of damage and not be at some sort of serious disadvantage during or immediately after.
  6. Fluffyness

    Fluffyness New Cupcake

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    Hey, completely agree with your point, but it seems that everyone has at least one or two healing abilities (warrior/stalker included). I've noticed the same healing icons on several videos, the syringe and red cross.

    Also I think they accidentally dealt with this using the LAS, so really everyone could have a heal or two if they wanted. With the LAS though they have to weigh out the heals vs. utility/damage and at a certain point if they give up too much they're just a healer.

    I've actually had a similar thought with healers being op in pvp but that was in relation to interrupts. I haven't seen any abilities like a Wow style kick, pummel, or what have you. For dps vs. dps it's fine because you can dodge, stun, cc whatever. So you can dodge(interrupt) a damage spell but there's no way to prevent a healing spell. Unless you use a stun/cc and those all have lengthy cool downs, no 8-15 sec "kick".

    I've noticed a few healing reduced by x% abilities but that's still a lot of free-healing with no kick.

    Fluffyness~
  7. CaRaDaGaiTa

    CaRaDaGaiTa Cupcake-About-Town

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    1. Healers probably will have to itemize for that (healing stats) so they will not have damage enough to kill someone ;
    2. The game should not be balanced around 1v1 ;
    3. Each class will get a minor healing spell, even the non-healer classes ;
    4. THe LAS will balance that too... if you take too much heals you may run out of damage to kill someone ;
    5. Some class probably will have a healing reduction spell ;
    6. Classes will have ccs and probably silences or interrupts to make harder for healers ;
    7. Medics will be melee and heal.
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  8. Isgu

    Isgu Cupcake-About-Town

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    As stated above, there seem to be different stats that boost your healing and dps. So being geared for dps and having some heals on your bars will not have as big of an impact as you think it will, same goes the other way around. I really don't see this as an issue. :)
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  9. Tribe

    Tribe Well-Known Cupcake

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    Emergency Reserves is a Warrior self heal. See my post in Leiloni's thread Self healing for every class, for more information. Did you read Zap-Robo's description of the video or his comments in the thread for it?

    Zap-Robo went into even more detail with his responses here.

    Why? I've heard this thought expressed regarding PvP for several different games and have never understood it. For example, you would be OK with an Esper always having the upper hand over a Spellslinger? Assuming they are the same level, have access to the same quality gear, etc.
  10. Leiloni

    Leiloni Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because each class performs a different role in a fight, depending on what build they have. Some classes are great at burst but very squishy, tanks and healers are hard to kill, some classes may have great CC, or stealth, etc. These things make 1v1 imbalanced and unfair, but they work very well in a group fight with more people involved and a lot of other things going on. As a healer I should be able to win nearly every 1v1 unless I make a mistake because if I can't keep myself alive vs 1 person, how am I ever expected to keep my team alive vs many? The same goes for other roles and various class builds - they need to be able to perform their role in a group scenario, and that never translates well 1v1.
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  11. Jaxxa

    Jaxxa Cupcake

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    I think the biggest problem I have with 1v1 pvp balance are the problems that bubble up as you do larger pvp events. I am not suggesting that one class gets to be 'king' and defeat everyone else but that sometimes balancing a 1v1 can lead to 'jack of all trades' classes. For example, when you blur the lines between healer/dps for the sake of balancing 1v1 battles you can end up flooding larger group battles with too much healing and not enough damage or too much damage and not enough healing.

    Classes still need to be balanced but it functions better if you look at balance outside of the scope of a 1v1 battle in order to encompass a wider range of situations.
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  12. Laban

    Laban Cupcake-About-Town

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    I doubt it's going to be that simple in Wildstar, seeing how there's so many possible ability loadouts available, so there's never going to be a simple answer on how to kill x class if you don't know what abilities he's rockin'.

    But imagine that Espers excel in 1v1 situations due to a wide variety of strong single target nukes and cc, while the Spellslingers are lacking on those fronts but make up for it by having plenty of AoE nukes and cc which makes them very good in large scale PvP to control the flow of battle and blast hordes of enemies in choke points. But suddenly all the Spellslingers start whining on the forums that they're getting owned by Espers all day long and eventually the developers buckle to the whine, so they make the Spellslingers single target nukes and cc more in line with the Espers. Now they've suddenly made Espers close to obsolete due to Spellslingers being on par in 1v1 and superior in large scale PvP.

    Ideally, you just as close of a balance as possible in both 1v1 and large scale PvP, but sometimes the nature of the role just prevents that, so they should always focus on having a good balance in large scale PvP first and foremost since that's what it's all about in an MMORPG.
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  13. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because it makes the game interesting, if every class had a chance against every other class 1v1 completely fair

    Then the game would have 6 of the same classes, if the game is instead balanced around group pvp then each class has a role to fill and pvp becomes about interupting those roles.

    A game in which every class is too similar freaking sucks, and it's called Guild Wars 2
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  14. Domi Dayglow

    Domi Dayglow Super Cupcake

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    Abilities that lower damage resistance can counter heal over times, causing more damage per strike to be done. Crowd Control can also be employed by melee classes as well as ranged. A spellslinger hit with a slow is suddenly vulnerable to a warrior's blade much more often.

    So a Dominion Stalker and Warrior encounter an Exile Spellslinger and Esper in open world. The warrior is specced as a melee DPS, the Stalker for more crowd control, the esper for healing and spellslinger for ranged DPS.

    Normally, the esper and spellslinger would simple cut the warrior to pieces. Ah! But suddenly the stealthy stalker appears and uses a crowd control that slows down the two Exiles! The warrior is suddenly able to get into range much more quickly. The warrior also uses their arm cannon's "Acid Blast!" ability (Okay, I just made that ability up. But let's say it lowers healing received and regeneration for a target. In normal PvE, the warrior was probably using it to counter heavy healing or regeneration). Suddenly the two Exiles are stuck in close combat from the crowd control and suffer weaker healing from the debuff.

    The unique nature of LAS and swapping out abilities comes into play here. Normally, if the Exiles encountered this group again, they would still be vulnerable to those same tactics. Thanks to LAS, the two Exiles can swap abilities. The spellslinger could take an ability that increased the running speed, countering the slow crowd control used by the stalker. The esper could take an ability that releases psionic spiders as pets, increasing DPS output by replacing a weak heal that was reduced to useless in face of the warrior's debuff.

    Suddenly it's a completely new fight. This makes each encounter, even if you fought the same opponent a dozen times, different.
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  15. Laerune

    Laerune New Cupcake

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    If I remember correctly, doesnt the paths also give skills, I remember someone saying that with scientist you unlock a healing skill.
  16. Yule

    Yule Cupcake

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    Does'nt heals scale with Support Power anyway? So an Esper geared for DPS will have <REDACTED>ty heals anyway, and if he gears half/half he will be OKish at both, but not excell at anything.
  17. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    Why not, do you enjoy playing classes that dominate 1v1?

    1v1 scenarios take place in all fields of PvP, and dominate many. Even in the most group oriented field of battle, it is quite common. If the game is fairly closely balanced around 1v1, then in most part group encounters would be fairly balanced as well. This is just sort of common sense... I mean, if everyone is more or less the same in strength, then combat of equal group size will be roughly equal as well.


    Blizzard says they don't balance around 1v1, but that is merely a charade. The truth is the game is so far out of whack they can't balance it. That is why in the past they said they balanced PvP around 3v3, and then later 5v5. Not because they were changing their method of balance, but because the higher the bracket the more unnoticeable any sign of imbalances are.

    Then you have scenarios like in TBC where a keyboard turning druid in blues could get 2k+ in 2v2 arena with a competent partner, yet people would defend it because the game was supposedly not balanced around 2v2, but 3v3.
  18. Pmizzrym

    Pmizzrym Cupcake-About-Town

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    Because it homogenizes the classes.

    And uhh, that's bad, mmkay.
  19. FairyTailisBack

    FairyTailisBack Cupcake-About-Town

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    That is merely a baseless assumption. In fact, it doesn't even make sense. We already know each of the 4 classes has a rather unique playstyle. At the very least there is a comparable warrior, rogue, & mage atm.
  20. Jaxxa

    Jaxxa Cupcake

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    Yup have a very black and white way of looking at things. Yes you can proportionally balance classes across the board but each class has it's own situational strengths and weaknesses. Each dps class has functional differences as each heal class has functional differences. In 1v1 these differences can seem unbalanced but when in a team (even just a pair) things start to even out.

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